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Front Diff (posi) Locking Question

All of the above responses are excellent and totally appreciated. Maybe I'm extra happy because that is what I wanted to hear, and what I had assumed regarding what is (or isn't) going on when in 2wd with hubs unlocked. I will defintely research the issue of "flipped" gears for the front assembly. So, thank you to all. And more comments are appreciated.

It has 28-spline axles, btw
 
All of the above responses are excellent and totally appreciated. Maybe I'm extra happy because that is what I wanted to hear, and what I had assumed regarding what is (or isn't) going on when in 2wd with hubs unlocked. I will defintely research the issue of "flipped" gears for the front assembly. So, thank you to all. And more comments are appreciated.

It has 28-spline axles, btw
I think even with the hubs locked, transfer case in 2wd, a front Truetrac will not misbehave because it requires a torque mismatch between the axle shafts, and with the front driveshaft effectively free-spinning there isn't enough torque to lock (again, using loosely) the differential. Maybe someone that has one up front can confirm this but based on the design of the differential I am pretty confident.

That is to say that not only will the truck drive fine with a front Truetrac when in 2wd unlocked hubs, it will also drive fine when in 2wd and hubs locked, which might come in handy if you are doing things where you might need 4x4 (so you lock the hubs), but don't need 4x4 at this moment (so you haven't shifted the transfer case yet).

With 28 spline axle shafts I would probably just buy 1 of each front and rear application diffs (since they offer them) and not worry about flipping gears. I think you technically retain the warranty (I think 1 year) that way. Unless you just find a great deal on rear application but not front or something like that.
 
All of the above responses are excellent and totally appreciated. Maybe I'm extra happy because that is what I wanted to hear, and what I had assumed regarding what is (or isn't) going on when in 2wd with hubs unlocked. I will defintely research the issue of "flipped" gears for the front assembly. So, thank you to all. And more comments are appreciated.

It has 28-spline axles, btw
Well the best thing now is to become a member, start a build thread and make it to blazer bash!
 
I think even with the hubs locked, transfer case in 2wd, a front Truetrac will not misbehave because it requires a torque mismatch between the axle shafts, and with the front driveshaft effectively free-spinning there isn't enough torque to lock (again, using loosely) the differential. Maybe someone that has one up front can confirm this but based on the design of the differential I am pretty confident.

That is to say that not only will the truck drive fine with a front Truetrac when in 2wd unlocked hubs, it will also drive fine when in 2wd and hubs locked, which might come in handy if you are doing things where you might need 4x4 (so you lock the hubs), but don't need 4x4 at this moment (so you haven't shifted the transfer case yet).

Outside of the weird scenario in my previous post, driving mine with the tru-trac up front in 2wd but the hubs locked in, you don’t know by feel that it has anything going on up front. On pavement it still steers normally, same on dirt. It does not have the “push” in the front end when turning like an actual locked front axle in 4wd would do.

I’ll even take it a step further if you are in 4wd hi or low range the tru-trac does not make it harder to steer like a locked diff would.

Keep this in mind too. Every limited slip diff of clutch type or helical can fall victim to still sending more power to the wheel with the least traction in a worst case situation. Example being hanging one front tire in the air on an obstacle or one tire on ice and the other on pavement. How “tight” that limited slip is will dictate how much goes to the wheel with traction. If that clutch type version is worn it’s going to behave looser and have more tendency to have the wheel without traction get the majority of the torque. A helical unit like a tru-trac does not have any clutches to wear out. You’ve got 4 helical gears in constant mesh that if you had that one side hanging 2 ft in the air or on ice a simple light drag on the brake (enough to stop the free wheel from turning) is all you need to force more torque to the wheel with traction.

It is a weird feeling to do and a tad harder in practice with a manual transmission like mine has but it totally works. I didn’t even know I could do that until @AgDieseler told me about it on a trail we were on in Moab. Here I was crossed up hanging my left tire in the air and I wasn’t making any forward progress. Just before I was going to back down and take a different line he reminded me. I drug the brake just a tad with my right foot as I rolled onto the throttle (big feet for the win here) as I let out the clutch with my other foot. It was at that point the truck started climbing up the rock with the right front and the left side settled back down and I drove right on through the rest of the obstacle.

I will admit I have broken front axle shafts with the tru-trac. Which after reviewing the three times I broke one it did have to do with the differential but not in the way most would assume you would break one. Meaning getting to heavy on the loud pedal with a wheel bound up or at full lock on the steering. Which don’t get me wrong you still have a pretty good chance of snapping one if you are on 35” tires or bigger. But in each case of mine i had gotten stuck driving into an obstacle and quickly shifted to reverse to back out of the problem. Each time, one of which I caught indirectly on video that you could hear the snap as it started to move backwards.

Each time I broke an axle shaft I was running the 5.3 with an automatic trans. I’ve yet to break one since I put the 8.1 manual trans in the truck. This is important to note as a change to my process when stuck could have avoided the problem.

When I got stuck with the automatic it was super easy to just take the shifter and shove it from D to R. No pause just jam it in reverse. The reason stuff broke is due to how tight tru-trac is and the fact that I was bound up moving forward. All that torque is twisting in one direction and has taken up the slack of all the lash within all the gears in the drivetrain. The tru-trac holding it all like a wound up spring. Now imagine quickly reversing the direction we have to take up the slack in all the gears from one direction to the other. All that torque now being released in the other direction in a split second. Snap!

Had I taken a moment to pause in neutral before going to reverse the torque/load on the drivetrain would have relaxed and I would have backed up without snapping a shaft. It’s why I’ve not broken a shaft since switching to the manual transmission because to go from a forward gear to reverse I have to push the clutch in and effectively disconnect the driveline and all the bound up torque in the system relaxes.

So it would be the only word of caution I would add to the suggestion of using a tru-trac would be to pause in neutral if you get stuck before changing directions.
 
Great discussion, thanks for starting it OP. I have very little need for one, doesn't mean I don't still want one. Price is a bit much to stomach for "cool to have" component, but I think the truetrac is pretty tough to beat in a 10 bolt application.
 
I have a true track in a d44 up front and don’t even realize it's there.

On dry pavement hub locked, in 4wd, front tires will scrub while turning
 
Great discussion, thanks for starting it OP. I have very little need for one, doesn't mean I don't still want one. Price is a bit much to stomach for "cool to have" component, but I think the truetrac is pretty tough to beat in a 10 bolt application.
Putting one in my 14b is on my list of upgrades after ac. I’m kinda pissed at myself when somebody here posted up about an online store selling tru-tracs dirt cheap and I didn’t jump on it.
 
I’ve been out of it for a while but I always liked a locker in the rear and open up front. Drove fine and predictable traction.

Rear locker (gov lock, whatever lol) makes a huge difference, I run in 2WD until it's clear forward progress is going to be halted and that takes awhile in snow. But it would be interesting to see how much of a difference a traction aid would make in the front in the same conditions.

That's one of the positives with the true trac, they are supposed to be smooth and seamless, so predictability shouldn't be an issue(?).
 
Since the rear diff has been touched on a little now here, does anyone have any thoughts/experience with a front Truetrac and rear Detroit Locker (or similar) combo? For mixed on and off road use?

The rear Detroit seems like a no-brainer off road, but I am not sure how much harder it would be to live with on pavement for day to day driving, highway road trips, etc. I know a lot of people here use them though.
 
Since the rear diff has been touched on a little now here, does anyone have any thoughts/experience with a front Truetrac and rear Detroit Locker (or similar) combo? For mixed on and off road use?

The rear Detroit seems like a no-brainer off road, but I am not sure how much harder it would be to live with on pavement for day to day driving, highway road trips, etc. I know a lot of people here use them though.
I used mine all the time and it was very predictable except one time on ice which is not common for this area.
And I was driving like a jerk.
I now have a truck with the g80 and I like it better for a daily driver.
But I am still using a Detroit for my overland build
 
Since the rear diff has been touched on a little now here, does anyone have any thoughts/experience with a front Truetrac and rear Detroit Locker (or similar) combo? For mixed on and off road use?

The rear Detroit seems like a no-brainer off road, but I am not sure how much harder it would be to live with on pavement for day to day driving, highway road trips, etc. I know a lot of people here use them though.
Just a word of caution - the rear 10-Bolt in your K5 is the smallest/least durable axle ever used in a full-size GM truck.
The Detroit differential that is made for a c-clip axle is not the same animal as the tried-n-true Detroit that the reputation is built off of.

Your rear 10-Bolt will most likely benefit from a T/T in daily driving over the Detroit differential. Just something to consider.

To give input on your question though - a front T/T would be a very nice setup regardless of the rear differential.
Judging by what you have described for your ride it sounds like dual T/T’s would be the setup for you - easy on parts and in normal driving you’ll never notice them in regular road driving but will add good traction when the need arises.
 
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I used mine all the time and it was very predictable except one time on ice which is not common for this area.
And I was driving like a jerk.
I now have a truck with the g80 and I like it better for a daily driver.
But I am still using a Detroit for my overland build

Thanks for the feedback!

Just a word of caution - the rear 10-Bolt in your K5 is the smallest/least durable axle ever used in a full-size GM truck.
The Detroit differential that is made for a c-clip axle is not the same animal as the tried-n-true Detroit that the reputation is built off of.

Your rear 10-Bolt will most likely benefit from a T/T in daily driving over the Detroit differential. Just something to consider.

To give input on your question though - a front T/T would be a very nice setup regardless of the rear differential.
Judging by what you have described for your ride it sounds like dual T/T’s would be the setup for you - easy on parts and in normal driving you’ll never notice them in regular road driving but will add good traction when the need arises.

Thanks! I do have a 6 lug 9.5" semi float 14 bolt which I will be rebuilding and swapping in the rear. Of course this is still a c-clip style axle, and the Detroit Locker for this axle replaces the entire carrier, so it's still different than the full floater design. But the 9.5" axle is noticeably beefier than the 10 bolt, for what it's worth.

Does this change your recommendations at all? I really like the idea of the Detroit for anything off-pavement, and I think I could live with it on-pavement, but it's hard to know for sure from just reading and watching videos having never driven one.

Sorry everyone, not trying to hijack the thread, but it seems like we meandered onto the topic of the rear diff so hopefully this is still relevant discussion.
 
I've posted the information before about the e-locker that came in every H2 and how to put it into other 9.5" axles. You can often score the whole axle for less than the cost of a Detroit and now you also have disc brakes with a parking brake to use. You just have to settle for metric lug studs or figure out how to set them up with something else.

There have also been posts about using the 8.5/8.6" e-locker from the H3 in a front axle.

Just choose open or spool at each end as you see fit. Or keep trying combinations on the fly to see what works in that situation. Easier than jumping out to unlock a hub so you can make a tight corner.
 
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While it wasn’t mine, I had logged more than a few miles in the passenger seat of Larry’s K10 before he went with air lockers front and back. Prior to the lockers he was running a Detroit out back and a tru-trac up front. D44/14bff combo then too.

Off road the truck was damn good. The combo of the limited slip up front and the locker out back never had him stuck. Part of the reason to move to air lockers front and back was multi faceted. One of which being the on-road manners of the Detroit out back with a manual trans with the shorter wheelbase of a regular cab short box truck. 8,000 pounds of beef probably exaggerated it too.

The issue was driving on the highway and taking wide sweeping curves that highways typically will have. Albeit more so in the mountains too. But what happened is if he backed out of the throttle mid curve the Detroit would unlock. When it unlocked he would feel the suspension get unsettled as it wiggled the ass end of the truck slightly. Roll back into the throttle would cause the Detroit to lock up and the rear end wiggled again. At first I thought it was his ocd running wild again until I felt it from the passenger seat.

The road was the highway between Buena Vista and Leadville CO. Which happens to follow the Arkansas river and all its curves. He let off the throttle and reapplied it multiple times mid curve and it was not any exaggeration. It was unsettling to say the least.

Even though a detroit is one of the lesser expensive options for a traction device for a a 14bff, I have held off putting one in my truck for that reason. My truck is shorter than his and set up the same way. I can only imagine what it would do on a snowy road in 2wd with it locking and unlocking on a curve.

The manual transmission definitely enhances the issue since the clutch makes a direct link from the engine to the driveline. An auto trans with the tcc clutch unlocked would soften that reaction some.

Food for thought if your truck puts down a lot of street miles over trailering to a trailhead and hitting dirt.
 
Detroit's unlock when you go around corners then they jump back together on you when they come out of the turn, first time it happens you are like wtf just happened.
 
Thumbs and added cool points for goin with a 9.5” S/F 14B and even though it still uses c-clips for axle retention the bigger components are a plus.
All the info the fellas have given up above is spot on - just gotta decide if you won’t mind a little reminder that ya’ got a lock’n diff out back or one that darn near never lets you know it’s there. Both are good setups for what you say you are looking for.

I think it’s GREAT that you are not running a 8.5” 10B out back - the 14B upgrade is a very good swap without going overboard.
 
Thanks for the feedback!



Thanks! I do have a 6 lug 9.5" semi float 14 bolt which I will be rebuilding and swapping in the rear. Of course this is still a c-clip style axle, and the Detroit Locker for this axle replaces the entire carrier, so it's still different than the full floater design. But the 9.5" axle is noticeably beefier than the 10 bolt, for what it's worth.

Does this change your recommendations at all? I really like the idea of the Detroit for anything off-pavement, and I think I could live with it on-pavement, but it's hard to know for sure from just reading and watching videos having never driven one.

Sorry everyone, not trying to hijack the thread, but it seems like we meandered onto the topic of the rear diff so hopefully this is still relevant discussion.
No need to apologize. It's all relevant and all good info.
 
Does the 9.5 already have the gov-lock? Pretty common.

The theory and stock applications of the gov-lock are good. The 8.5" version doesn't hold under harder use, but the 9.5" generally holds up well.

Exactly one time have I been uncomfortable with the gov-lock's operation, and that was going up a slight off camber incline that was iced over. As soon as it locked the tail end headed towards the edge. But you'd experience the same with any sort of locker.

Probably wouldn't seek out a gov-lock as an "upgrade" vs other options (like the e-locker concept, however the hands-off/no input operation of the gov lock is preferable for me) but if you already have it, pretty hard to beat for a rig that doesn't see hard use.
 
Personally - again, I sold my last truly offroad capable and used truck in 2010, but if traction is a concern then lock the back. Real locker or a selectable. Mud, snow, rocks, sand, trails, etc there’s a reason you want all the power going to the rear and one of the tires may get in a rut or have less traction than the other and suddenly a LS is spinning freely.

To 2nd dyeager’s point - the GovLock in the bigger axles is an entirely different beast than the smaller axles. Much larger and more durable components that are in a much larger and more durable axle.
More than a few people on here have ran them in wheeling rigs until they wore it out. At that point upgrade.
 

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