Gas leak, or old gas on snow, or...?

[GoGoGirl]

I’ll post some photos too. I took these with the sun high in the sky but it’s still kind of hard to see the colors on the snow. The yellow isn’t any kind of pee, it’s possibly coming from the truck!

I recently had the plow angling cylinders and hoses replaced. I had broken a hose and hydraulic fluid was all over my driveway. I initially thought that was the cause for the yellow color. Though it happened a couple weeks ago, I figured maybe the snow wasn’t sticking to the fluid and I was still seeing it.

Yesterday my neighbor stopped by and said she could smell gasoline near the truck. I recalled that I had taken a couple of five gallon cans out of my daily driver last week and placed them right near where those stains on the snow are located, so I stopped and smelled the stuff. It’s not hydraulic fluid, it’s gasoline. I can’t recall exactly where I had put the gas cans on the ground and I’ve moved the truck since then, so either the location of the gasoline stains/smell is coincidence with where I had placed the cans, or I have a leak.

Looking at where the stains appear under the truck, I’m thinking fuel pump possibly. I can’t tell the volume of gas spilled but it looks fairly small. I didn’t have time to pop the hood and check yet but I will when I get home today. I was surprised so I snapped a couple photos. After thinking about it for a couple hours, here I am posing these questions to y’all.

Any ideas? Is it possible the tiny bit of gas that was on those cans has remained in the snow for a week, and that’s what I see? Or might I have a leak?

 

[SpeedlabDan]

You don't see anything dropping under the truck? No sweaty spots? Maybe rust dripping off the truck from melting ice off the road?

 

[76zimmer]

Id say look at the frame, crossmember and engine from the underside, unless the truck is empty, it should be wet if its coming from the truck.

 

[GoGoGirl]

Thank you for the replies. I wasn’t dressed to crawl underneath but I peeked under the hood and sure enough it looks like something near the fuel pump, or what I think is the fuel pump.

 

[76zimmer]

Yes, that is the fuel pump. There is a diaphragm inside that can go bad and then leak fuel past and out the casting. The fuel can run down a line, or the crossmember, steering linkage etc. see what is wet and trace it back to the dry area.
Check your oil for a gasoline smell as well, its possible some may have seaped into the crankcase.

here are a few videos on changing one.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sma...lace&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

 

[Fordum]

Let me modify what @76zimmer said just a little:
Pull the dipstick, and if it looks overfull, or smells like gas, DO NOT crank the truck.
Its not likely to explode, or anything like that, but if the gas has diluted the oil very much, you can damage bearings or cam lobes pretty quick.
Pretty much any dipstick that has not had an oil change for a little while will have a gas smell, but this would be obvious and would be overfull.
I saw a brand new Ford engine with less than 1500 miles on it pretty much come apart because of diluted oil. In that case, the fuel pump was bad from the factory, and was pumping a lot of gas into that engine.
The factory did not want to warranty it, saying that the driver should have checked the oil and stopped driving it before too much damage was done.
The driver had checked the oil once or twice when he first started driving it, noticed it was a little over full, but just figured the factory had put a little too much oil in.
Didn't check it for a few days after that, because who would think that a brand new engine from the factory would need oil.

Besides, it was not low.......
It took a few phone calls, and some threats, but they finally sent in a new engine. After we sent back the remanufactured one they sent in first.

 

[GoGoGirl]

Thank you all. I’ll have to check and smell tomorrow. What do I do if there’s enough gas in the oil that I can smell it? Just change the fuel pump? Not even move the vehicle? Problem then being that the plow is mounted and it’s not parked in a place where work can be done.

Deep breath!! Before I worry I’ll have to check tomorrow.

 

[beags86]

Don't eat yellow snow!

 

[Fordum]

If you think there is some gas in the oil, plan your trip and move it the least distance you can before shutting it down and changing the oil and filter. And fuel pump, of course.
If its halfway up the dipstick, grab some cheap oil and a filter and see if you can just dump that oil where it is into a pan and put in fresh with a cheap filter and drive it where you need to.
The more gas in the oil, the less you need to run it. I have seen it just barely over the full mark, and like I said, halfway up the stick.
The main thing is the least amount of engine running you can get away with.
Don't go to the store or off roading with it half full.
The fuel pump has a small hole in the outside of the housing to let the air on the outside of the diaphragm go somewhere when it moves, and usually the gas shoots or leaks out there without getting in the engine.
It just depends on how the diaphragm is leaking as to where the gas it going.
Hopefully all yours is going outside the engine.

 

[Wes Harden]

So I am not seeing evidence of the pump leaking I would expect to see.
Inspect the rubber line for cracks. Truck can still run if small crack in feed line. It will drop with temp changes.
By all means check oil for gas, if you can light the dip stick oil on fire you know pump is bad.
Put something card board, a pan under where you suspect the leak. Inspect any evidence.
Let us know good luck.

 

[GoGoGirl]

Thank you all. I’ve been working all weekend and not wearing good cold weather gear that would be something I’d crawl under the truck with.

I checked the dipstick and there’s no smell of gas.

I took some photos under the hood. I’m not sure exactly what I’m seeing but you can see liquid on the valve covers as well as on a hose down below the pump fluid reservoir. It could be melted snow, hydraulic fluid, or gas. The hood won’t stay open by itself (which I have fixed before and need to again) so I couldn’t get in there to smell the liquid.

There appears to be gas near the bottom of the carb as well. Yellowish like the snow. But no odor of oil anywhere.

 

[eric67camino]

Not seeing anything on the driver's side that looks suspect. Problem would more likely be on the passenger side where fuel lines run.

Assuming it's a fuel issue based on the info, the things to look at:
1.) Around carb - Could be stuck float, leaking gasket.
2.) At the fuel line going down from the cab to to fuel pump - Could be connection/fitting at either end or a split in the line itself.
3.) Around the pump itself - Could be fittings, or gasket, or air hole mentioned earlier.
4.) Fuel lines going from pump to hard lines at the frame - Could be ends of line or line could be dryrotted.
5.) Hard fuel lines along frame rail to tank - Could be ends of lines or a split in the line.
6.) Rubber fuel lines from frame to tank - Could be ends or lines could be dry rotted.
7.) Tank itself - Tank could be rushed through, could have leak at the seam, could get gravel/debris be tank straps and tank that eventually wears a hole.

Finding a leak is not always easy. Generally have to find a wet spot, and trace it up (and usually forward on a vehicle driven normally, this may not apply to a low speed/back and forth snow plow application). Leak is usually from the highest spot thats wet.

 

[Wes Harden]

Hydraulic fluid would be a light brown color, like the stain on the snow.
How do the brakes feel, nice and firm? Brake fluid is special hydraulic fluid and will leave a light brown stain.
I didn't see anything in the pictures that was ah ha that's it.

If we could see the passenger front side of carb that would gives us a better view of the fuel inlet line.
If you suspect your plow hoses of leaking. Please do not check under pressure. Never put your hand or any other body part to check for a leak.
Hydraulic oil stream under pressure will inject under the skin and will poison you. But I bet you know that.
Get a hood stick don't trust the springs until repaired

 

[anwat]

Just throwing this out...what color is your coolant? There are a couple that look yellowish like that, especially when older...My thermostat housing was loose and I started seeing coolant at the base of the throttle body, thought it was gas until I smelled it. I'd say your first job is figuring out what type of fluid you've got coming out, that narrows down where you need to search for leaks. Fuel pump would drip close to where the lower radiator hose and water pump might drip.....I've got that same vacuum line plug on my truck!

 

[Blue85]

Normally I wouldn't recommend sniffing yellow snow, but in this case it only makes sense.

 

[GoGoGirl]

Just throwing this out...what color is your coolant? There are a couple that look yellowish like that, especially when older...My thermostat housing was loose and I started seeing coolant at the base of the throttle body, thought it was gas until I smelled it. I'd say your first job is figuring out what type of fluid you've got coming out, that narrows down where you need to search for leaks. Fuel pump would drip close to where the lower radiator hose and water pump might drip.....I've got that same vacuum line plug on my truck!

I haven’t been able to crawl into the engine compartment yet as much as I’d love to, but you bring up a good point. That is what my coolant looks like as far as I can see. And where the overflow connects right near the cap doesn’t fit right since “someone” accidentally broke off the nipple while crawling under the hood once. So there’s always a chance of a leak there.

Originally I had said that I just happened to spill gas right there in the driveway just before this issue appeared (but before the snowfall). So it could be coolant that melted the snow and exposed the gas underneath it.

 

[GoGoGirl]

Update since last post...

Finally got down on the ground. I’m nearly certain I’m seeing gas. It sure smells like gas. The only other possibility is coolant that’s somehow odorless, and I’m smelling residual gas on the ground.

I sort of crawled under the hood but with the amount of melting snow and ice it’s very difficult to tell where any liquid is coming from. I touched and smelled a few spots and frankly it didn’t smell like anything.

I think I’m going to bring this to my neighbor to look at. He’s about 1/4 mile from me. Do y’all think I’m fine to drive there? I hope so!

 

[Wes Harden]

Yes if you can't see a stream while running, you should be ok to drive 1/4 mile. be alert and have a fire extinguisher handy, since fuel is the prime suspect. While you warm it up for drive to neighbors, look for puddles on manifold in the low spots. If you see pools, don't drive and shut down. This indicates fuel inlet or carb, are leaking. Gas leaks this high on motor are more prone to start fires, exhaust manifolds and secondary ignition wires.

 

[Fordum]

Since the oil looks OK, was not too full, and did not smell like gas, that part should be OK to drive. Before you crank it, throw something under the engine that will revel a leak. Brown cardboard that will turn dark when wet, that sort of thing.
Then, get a good bright flashlight, and as soon as you crank it, look at the cardboard, and shine the light at the fuel pump. If the diaphragm is busted and leaking externally, you will see a thin stream of gas squirting out of a small hole on the side.
If the cardboard is dry, and there is no squirt, move up towards the top of the engine, like Wes said, with the light looking for leaks.
If you don't see anything right away, watch the cardboard for a few minutes. A bad leak will either show up on it, or puddle on top of the engine in a minute or two.

To be honest, I don't know about the yellow snow, being from NW FL. I am far from a snow expert, yellow or otherwise, but the dark around the fuel pump looks more like oil than gas.

 

[diesel4me]

Other things that might drip gas could be the charcoal canister if it has one,for vapor recovery,and its hoses...often these get "deleted" and someone forgets to plug off the hoses to the fuel tank & carb..

And some engines (usually in vehicles with A/C) had a fuel pump with a vapor return line and a bigger "can" on the pump under the diaphragm ,perhaps a different fuel pump was installed that only had 2 hose fittings instead of three (one additional one for the vapor return)--that may have been left unplugged..

That said I had a plow hydraulic hose fail on my truck about 10 years ago,and the radiator support still has puddles of the fluid in spots and some is still wetting the frame enough to leave a drip every so often..
I don't clean it off because I consider it rust proofing..