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getting my truck to run ethanol.

K5Greek

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What do we need to do to run ethanol? I heard it was just switching out fuel lines but im not sure. Anyone have any idea? With ethanol starting to get more widespread i guess it wouldnt hurt to get some cheap gas. Even though theres none in NJ...

http://e85vehicles.com/e85-stations.htm
 
What do we need to do to run ethanol? I heard it was just switching out fuel lines but im not sure. Anyone have any idea? With ethanol starting to get more widespread i guess it wouldnt hurt to get some cheap gas. Even though theres none in NJ...

http://e85vehicles.com/e85-stations.htm

I assume you're running TBI, correct? I haven't heard of anyone doing that, yet...but I'm sure someone has.

With a carb you need bigger jets. Injectors...same deal. They have to be able to flow more to keep up with demand. They may also need to be up to the task of handling the ethanol without adverse effects (corrosion or deterioration).

Yes, you need fuel lines (either hard or soft) that will stand up to the ethanol without corroding or deteriorating.

You may also want to make sure that your fuel pump is up to the task. Like I said, a carb needs bigger jets, because the fuel/air mix needs to be richer with ethanol to make the same power. Your fuel pump needs to be both able to keep up with the additional fuel needs, and have a long life with less lubrication (ethanol won't lubricate as well as gas).

ECM/PCM...the computer may need to be reprogrammed to run the stuff effectively.

Timing will have to be adjusted as well.

You can quickly see that this would be a conversion to ethanol, NOT a situation where you could randomly switch back and forth between it and gas.

If E85 were readily available much cheaper than gasoline, I would consider a small carb'd beater for a commuter, and even bump up the compression ratio to take advantage of E85's higher octane rating. But creating your own "flex fuel" vehicle is going to be tough.
 
Why?

It's not cheap to convert over for it, you'll loose power, and it'd be years of dedicatedly using E85 to ever pay for the change over with the small amount cheaper it is.

Corn whiskey is another BS myth foisted on us by politicians and econuts.
 
Why?

It's not cheap to convert over for it, you'll loose power, and it'd be years of dedicatedly using E85 to ever pay for the change over with the small amount cheaper it is.

Corn whiskey is another BS myth foisted on us by politicians and econuts.

And from what I understand the whole "low emissions" thing has a lot more to it than anyone knows or is letting on...
 
Yep, different sort of emissions. Biofuels emit different "hazardous" emissions than petroleum fuels but since the pro-corn whiskey crowd wants to hype it up they point out that it lacks all of the hazardous emissions...of petroleum fuels...
 
Yep, different sort of emissions. Biofuels emit different "hazardous" emissions than petroleum fuels but since the pro-corn whiskey crowd wants to hype it up they point out that it lacks all of the hazardous emissions...of petroleum fuels...

Exactamundo...
 
Here is some good reading for you.

Ethanol-based engines
Ethanol is most commonly used to power automobiles, though it may be used to power other vehicles, such as farm tractors and airplanes. Ethanol (E100) consumption in an engine is approximately 34% higher than that of gasoline (the energy per volume unit is 34% lower).[18][19] However, higher compression ratios in an ethanol-only engine allow for increased power output and better fuel economy than would be obtained with the lower compression ratio.[20][21] In general, ethanol-only engines are tuned to give slightly better power and torque output to gasoline-powered engines. In flexible fuel vehicles, the lower compression ratio requires tunings that give the same output when using either gasoline or hydrated ethanol. For maximum use of ethanol's benefits, a much higher compression ratio should be used,[22] which would render that engine unsuitable for gasoline use. When ethanol fuel availability allows high-compression ethanol-only vehicles to be practical, the fuel efficiency of such engines should be equal or greater than current gasoline engines. However, since the energy content (by volume) of ethanol fuel is less than gasoline, a larger volume of ethanol fuel (151%) would still be required to produce the same amount of energy.[23]
A 2004 MIT study,[24] and an earlier paper published by the Society of Automotive Engineers,[25] describing tests, identify a method to exploit the characteristics of fuel ethanol that is substantially better than mixing it with gasoline. The method presents the possibility of leveraging the use of alcohol to even achieve definite improvement over the cost-effectiveness of hybrid electric. The improvement consists of using dual-fuel direct-injection of pure alcohol (or the azeotrope or E85) and gasoline, in any ratio up to 100% of either, in a turbocharged, high compression-ratio, small-displacement engine having performance similar to an engine having twice the displacement. Each fuel is carried separately, with a much smaller tank for alcohol. The high-compression (which increases efficiency) engine will run on ordinary gasoline under low-power cruise conditions. Alcohol is directly injected into the cylinders (and the gasoline injection simultaneously reduced) only when necessary to suppress ‘knock’ such as when significantly accelerating. Direct cylinder injection raises the already high octane rating of ethanol up to an effective 130. The calculated over-all reduction of gasoline use and CO2 emission is 30%. The consumer cost payback time shows a 4:1 improvement over turbo-diesel and a 5:1 improvement over hybrid. In addition, the problems of water absorption into pre-mixed gasoline (causing phase separation), supply issues of multiple mix ratios and cold-weather starting are avoided.
Ethanol's higher octane rating allows an increase of an engine's compression ratio for increased thermal efficiency.[26] In one study, complex engine controls and increased exhaust gas recirculation allowed a compression ratio of 19.5 with fuels ranging from neat ethanol to E50. Thermal efficiency up to approximately that for a diesel was achieved.[27] This would result in the MPG (miles per gallon) of a dedicated ethanol vehicle to be about the same as one burning gasoline.
Engines using fuel with from 30% to 100% ethanol also need a cold-starting system. For E85 fuel at temperatures below 11 °C (52 °F) a cold-starting system is required for reliable starting and to meet EPA emissions standards.[28]

[edit] Ethanol fuel mixtures

For more details on this topic, see Common ethanol fuel mixtures.

Hydrated ethanol × gasoline type C price table for use in Brazil


To avoid engine stall, the fuel must exist as a single phase. The fraction of water that an ethanol-gasoline fuel can contain without phase separation increases with the percentage of ethanol.[29]. This shows, for example, that E30 can have up to about 2% water. If there is more than about 71% ethanol, the remainder can be any proportion of water or gasoline and phase separation will not occur. However, the fuel mileage declines with increased water content. The increased solubility of water with higher ethanol content permits E30 and hydrated ethanol to be put in the same tank since any combination of them always results in a single phase. Somewhat less water is tolerated at lower temperatures. For E10 it is about 0.5% v/v at 70 F and decreases to about 0.23% v/v at -30 F.[30]
In many countries cars are mandated to run on mixtures of ethanol. Brazil requires cars be suitable for a 25% ethanol blend, and has required various mixtures between 22% and 25% ethanol, as of October 2006 23% is required. The United States allows up to 10% blends, and some states require this (or a smaller amount) in all gasoline sold. Other countries have adopted their own requirements. Beginning with the model year 1999, an increasing number of vehicles in the world are manufactured with engines which can run on any fuel from 0% ethanol up to 100% ethanol without modification. Many cars and light trucks (a class containing minivans, SUVs and pickup trucks) are designed to be flexible-fuel vehicles (also called dual-fuel vehicles). Their engine systems contain alcohol sensors in the fuel and/or oxygen sensors in the exhaust that provide input to the engine control computer to adjust the fuel injection to achieve stochiometric (no residual fuel or free oxygen in the exhaust) air-to-fuel ratio for any fuel mix. The engine control computer can also adjust (advance) the ignition timing to achieve a higher output without pre-ignition when higher alcohol percentages are present in the fuel being burned.[citation needed]

[edit] Fuel economy

All fuel-driven vehicles have a fuel economy (measured as miles per US gallon, or liters per 100 km) that is directly proportional to the fuel's energy content.[31] Ethanol contains approx. 34% less energy per unit volume than gasoline, and therefore will result in a 34% reduction in miles per US gallon, given the same fuel economy.[18][19] For E10 (10% ethanol and 90% gasoline), the effect is small (~3%) when compared to conventional gasoline,[32] and even smaller (1-2%) when compared to oxygenated and reformulated blends.[33] However, for E85 (85% ethanol), the effect becomes significant. E85 will produce lower mileage than gasoline, and will require more frequent refueling. Actual performance may vary depending on the vehicle. The EPA-rated mileage of current USA flex-fuel vehicles[34] should be considered when making price comparisons, but it must be noted that E85 is a high performance fuel and should be compared to premium. In one estimate[35] the US retail price for E85 ethanol is 2.62 US dollar per gallon or 3.71 dollar corrected for energy equivalency compared to a gallon of gasoline priced at 3.03 dollar. Brazilian cane ethanol (100%)is priced at 3.88 dollar against 4.91 dollar for E25 (figures July 2007).
 
Don't even bother with ethanol. Huge up-front cost, and you just passed the buck to everyone else, at the supermarket.:doah:
 
I dont like E-85 but I most states run a 10 -20 % blend. I support that 100% both from a grainmarket aspect and also from a gasoline price aspect
 
Why?

It's not cheap to convert over for it, you'll loose power, and it'd be years of dedicatedly using E85 to ever pay for the change over with the small amount cheaper it is.

Corn whiskey is another BS myth foisted on us by politicians and econuts.


I heard the opposite, that you gain power but lose MPG.
 
You heard wrong. Unless you build the equivalent of an alky engine then the flex fuel vehicles make less power and less mpg. Look at all the new flex fuel vehicles you can buy. All are rated at less power and less mpg than their petroleum fuel counterparts.

The only thing ethanol is made from here is corn...which is stupid since there's better crops to make it from.
 
Everyone keeps pointing at Brazil and their massive (for their size and needs) production campaign but no one wants to mention they use sugarcane and also a few plants that basically grow like weeds there.
 
Corn Ethanol in all forms is, IMHO, nothing more than a scheme by the farm lobby's to drive prices up and get more government subsidies. No gains at all by using it.
 
Well...they don't use those...weeds...for ethanol production...they're used for another export of South/Latin America.
 
All we really need to solve this stupid problem is federally regulate oil, and build 30 more refineries. Then there would be no lib talk about fuel that sux and battery cars that need to charge on electric coal power.........morons...
 
Corn Ethanol in all forms is, IMHO, nothing more than a scheme by the farm lobby's to drive prices up and get more government subsidies. No gains at all by using it.
I will agree with you on the farm lobby scheming. My grandfather was a dairy farmer and I live in a state with a large agricultural community but I think we're all getting royally screwed by some of the stupid policies we have when it comes to agriculture.

Now if we tried to grow/raise plants and animals that were a bit more native to our country and also better suited for the intended purpose we'd be much better off. Ethanol could work great here but it would have to be made from a plant that WASN'T one of our chief food stuffs.



Chaddy, federal regulation isn't the answer to anything private. However we do need to cut out a bunch of the BS about making those refineries. More refineries and more drilling and we'd be set for a LONG time. Hydrogen might actually be viable about the time we run out.
 

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