ciffer
1/2 ton status
fuel ethanol is a great idea, making ethanol from corn is not going to be a final solution for the reasons mentioned above. i am looking forward to the future of cellulose ethanol.
CK5
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getting my truck to run ethanol.
- Thread starter K5Greek
- Start date
To run "Flex Fuel" is challenging, but possible. Here are the basics:
-Alcohol compability: new fuel lines, possibly, pump, injectors, etc. Takes a little research.
-Fuel Sensing: You can't run it if you don't know what it is. The OEMs put a sensor in the flex fuel vehicles that can be used for this.
-Engine management: This is the biggest hurdle, unless you run Megasquirt. With a OEM system, it's hard.
-Injector sizing: You need a lot more alcohol than gas, so the injectors will have to grow (unless you like running lean and melting pistons). The bigger you go, the more difficult it becomes to maintain a good idle, especially on gas. This points back to engine management because you need high resolution on the pulse width. You might gain a lot by letting the system adjust its fuel pressure based on fuel content.
-Alcohol compability: new fuel lines, possibly, pump, injectors, etc. Takes a little research.
-Fuel Sensing: You can't run it if you don't know what it is. The OEMs put a sensor in the flex fuel vehicles that can be used for this.
-Engine management: This is the biggest hurdle, unless you run Megasquirt. With a OEM system, it's hard.
-Injector sizing: You need a lot more alcohol than gas, so the injectors will have to grow (unless you like running lean and melting pistons). The bigger you go, the more difficult it becomes to maintain a good idle, especially on gas. This points back to engine management because you need high resolution on the pulse width. You might gain a lot by letting the system adjust its fuel pressure based on fuel content.
roadnotca
3/4 ton status
There's an old phrase, "planned obsolesence". New tech, legislate out the old, new profit oportunity.
R-12 ---> R-134 anyone?
You forgot the part about replacing the old tech with something that doesn't perform as well.
roadnotca
3/4 ton status
I'm a hard CONSERVATIVE, but a lot a enviro tech has been better for everybody, but the performance up front sucks. Eventually the Enginerds figure it out.R-12 ---> R-134 anyone?
You forgot the part about replacing the old tech with something that doesn't perform as well.
CORVETTE Z06
Yeah but selling an inferior product as a better product and legislating it down our throats isn't the way to advance technology or improve the world.
Someone show me how E85 or R134 is truly any better than the product it replaces. Most of the science on both is pretty sketchy, just like the whole rational behind it.
Someone show me how E85 or R134 is truly any better than the product it replaces. Most of the science on both is pretty sketchy, just like the whole rational behind it.
roadnotca
3/4 ton status
You're right, E85 and all the Global Climate Change is BS, and it will probably take you and me ten years to pay for the evolution, evolution into Utopia.
I don't like it either because it spanks my wallet. It's going to happen anyways.
What we can do be is sure it's smart.
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BlazerBud
1/2 ton status
I know a couple old guys that run on ethanol.
Why not a vehicle too?
Why not a vehicle too?
4by4bygod
1/2 ton status
Here's a neat discussion of the higher ethanol / gasoline blends..read the abstract first, then download the PDF if you are interested..it's long, but you'll learn stuff about ethanol you don't hear discussed much on this side of the pond.
http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosphere/fuelquality/publications/review-vehicle-fleet/index.html
As I've said before, everyone gets excited about the higher octane of ethanol..big deal..unless you have a 12:1 motor, you can't take advantage of it anyway..octane isn't an indicator of a fuels energy content.
To me, the increase in NOx & VOC tailpipe emissions, the leaning out of the A/F mixture, and the fact alcohol has zero f**king lubricity disqualifies it as a viable technology in my book.
http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosphere/fuelquality/publications/review-vehicle-fleet/index.html
As I've said before, everyone gets excited about the higher octane of ethanol..big deal..unless you have a 12:1 motor, you can't take advantage of it anyway..octane isn't an indicator of a fuels energy content.
To me, the increase in NOx & VOC tailpipe emissions, the leaning out of the A/F mixture, and the fact alcohol has zero f**king lubricity disqualifies it as a viable technology in my book.
blazin_blazer
1/2 ton status
i know all this corn bs hype has...
drivin the price of corn to double what it was a year ago, this time last year a bag of corn for my deer feeder was $3.75-$4.....bought 4 bags this last tuesday.....$8.17 a bag
, before taxes! deer not going to get fed as well this yr. not corn anyway, my dad is a plant manager for pyco, he told me he could give me all the soybeans they could eat, he's 2 hrs. away tho, sure wish i had someway to store a small quantity of it, i've been fillin 4 of those galvanized trash cans everytime i visit, but i run out before i go back, but for what i'm payin for corn, i guess it would be cheaper to start visiting more often!
drivin the price of corn to double what it was a year ago, this time last year a bag of corn for my deer feeder was $3.75-$4.....bought 4 bags this last tuesday.....$8.17 a bag
, before taxes! deer not going to get fed as well this yr. not corn anyway, my dad is a plant manager for pyco, he told me he could give me all the soybeans they could eat, he's 2 hrs. away tho, sure wish i had someway to store a small quantity of it, i've been fillin 4 of those galvanized trash cans everytime i visit, but i run out before i go back, but for what i'm payin for corn, i guess it would be cheaper to start visiting more often!
jhellwig
1/2 ton status
Ethanol might be inferior to petroleum but look at where the money is going for it. It goes to the people that feed your fat rear ends. Everyone blames ethanol for food prices going up but that is a man made problem. Ethanol production does not decrease food value of the corn. You can actually mix the ddg with cheaper fillers and decrease the cost of feeding cattle rather than feeding them straight corn. I could rant more on this stupid bs but I don't have time.
4by4bygod
1/2 ton status
The big money goes to archer daniels midland, and other big agra companies..
the issue isn't decreased food value of corn - the issue is, thanks to subsidies and artificial price supports, the farmers make more money selling the corn to the fuel producers, rather than as feed.. so the guy who wants to use it as feed has to pay more to keep his herd alive, and thus passes the cost on to us.
we're taking tax dollars, and giving it to big companies, so they can use up feedstocks that in turn end up costing more due to increased demand..
I read in the paper this week that one of that larger chicken processors had to shut down and put hundreds out of work, because they can't afford to feed the chickens.. yep, that makes sense..
sure, you could use cheap fillers to mix with corn - how healthy is that? isn't that how we got the poison pet food last year, by taking the cheap shortcuts?
sorry, I'd rather feed people than propagate a scam that has harmful economic and environmental consequences..
roadnotca
3/4 ton status
Right on point Tom!
jhellwig
1/2 ton status
There have been subsidiaries and artificial price long before biofuel came around.
Big arga companies are making the food that you eat. I work for cargill corn sweeteners. The only way this plant makes ethanol is from by products of the process of producing sweeteners. All the rest of the by products are made into feed. Nothing other than corn comes into this plant. Nothing but feed goes out. They even bring in ddg from other ethanol plants to make into feed.
So would you rather your tax dollars and regular dollars go to American owned and run companies buying American product or would you rather they go overseas to some towelhead that hates your guts?
Sure there is no quick fix to all the worlds problems but if we don't start somewhere it will never happen. If there is no demand then there will never be a way to do it cheaply and efficiently.
Think about that the next time you eat a steak and drink a soda pop.
Not sure how any of that justifies agricultural welfare.
jhellwig
1/2 ton status
It doesn't. But ethanol isn't to blame for them. They were instituted long before ethanol came around. Whenever the new farm bill gets passed there will be less of them because now the market is there to support farmers.
4by4bygod
1/2 ton status
I'm ok with supporting farmers, and american owned companies with tax breaks and whatever else - but I don't agree with doing so, so they can make a fuel that causes more emission & operational problems than it solves..
to me, the end does not justify the means, no matter how noble the means may be.
to me, the end does not justify the means, no matter how noble the means may be.
jhellwig
1/2 ton status
Can't argue with you there. At leased e10 is a viable option. It will all happen some day. And as far as emissions, it has to at leased be as good as gas otherwise the government wouldn't go for it.
