GM Crate Motor Differences?

[dhcomp]

Ok, so I'm getting close to the crate motor swap on my burb.

Want to do an LS, but can't do the added downtime. I'll do an LS swap on a truck that is less of a driver for me.

So, this is the "correct" TBI motor for my truck
http://www.jegs.com/p/Chevrolet-Per...-57L-350ci-190HP-300TQ-Engine/761929/10002/-1

This is the one spec'd for the 3/4 ton.



Any reason i can't run this one?
http://www.jegs.com/p/Chevrolet-Per...7-95-Truck-350ci-200HP-Engine/753961/10002/-1

Would it require a different ECM chip?

I have a lot of experience with both versions (the 190 in my burb, and the 200 in my 94 blazer), and really, i liked how the 200hp verison liked to rev better.

Obviously, if they checked the motor number, i might have smog issues, but am not really concerned. No one will ever know.

What says the brotherhood?

 

[dyeager535]

Honestly, ANY engine modification change "needs" a tune. Don't care what other people get away with, you are potentially leaving power on the table, and may have problems under certain conditions. "Runs fine" is not "engine is running as good and safe as it should be".

I say go with whatever floats your boat! Do the referees check deep enough to know if you put a Vortec block and heads in it?

 

[82355]

Do they not make a roller replacement?

Martin

 

[dhcomp]

My main goal here is dependability, and ease of swap. I've never swapped a motor, but have dealt with every component of said swap, and could pull it off in a weekend.

I'm all for "bolt in" replacements that are more powerful. I just have to keep it easy, and smog legal in CA. Open to suggestions.

I know everyone is going to say "go LS", but really, in between needing to control my 4l80e, and not being able to have my truck down for weeks on end, i think going a more traditional swap route will pay off.

 

[82355]

That is why I wonder why they don't make a roller replacement. Flat cams suck.

Martin

 

[dyeager535]

Tough call on not going LS. I do understand the time constraints though. Doing it again (and if I stuck with a gas motor) I would do the LS over anything in a heartbeat. They are a better motor, period.

Just swapping in the 200HP motor I'm guessing the ECM wouldn't give you too much hassle, but you tow as I recall, and quite heavily. That's where you can't just hope the ECM is happy.

Vortec heads and roller cam require quite a bit of tuning, but the swap has been done quite a bit, and the info is out there. You are still looking at some down time to get it right IMO.

 

[dhcomp]

Vortec heads and roller cam require quite a bit of tuning, but the swap has been done quite a bit, and the info is out there. You are still looking at some down time to get it right IMO.

Its the downtime that will kill me. I do tow a good amount, but not really that much weight.

My other concern, is that even though my 4l80e is in good shape, its not going to hold up to a 400hp 6.0L, even if i am able to properly control it.

Then i'm quickly approaching a LS motor/trans swap, and the $$$ goes up and up...

 

[dyeager535]

You could always go with a 5.3L, I figured the 4L80E was plenty strong to hold up to even a 400HP motor!

But again, I understand your time constraint. I don't believe that an LS swap can be completed in a weekend, although someone will probably prove me wrong.

 

[onetonbb74]

I have the 200hp model one, its for 1/2 tons w/ 2 bolt main caps, everything hooked up and worked out perfectly in my 74 K20 behind a 700r4 and 7747 ecm. The 190hp models are for 3/4 ton and 1ton with 4 bolt main caps, lower CR, and higher CC heads. I would assume the comperter can handle either one, but im no expert.

 

[dhcomp]

I have the 200hp model one, its for 1/2 tons w/ 2 bolt main caps, everything hooked up and worked out perfectly in my 74 K20 behind a 700r4 and 7747 ecm. The 190hp models are for 3/4 ton and 1ton with 4 bolt main caps, lower CR, and higher CC heads. I would assume the comperter can handle either one, but im no expert.

Saw the 2bolt vs. 4 bolt main issue. But, not a huge concern.

Wonder if controlling it properly is as easy as swapping the 1/2 ton chip into my ECM.....?

 

[dhcomp]

You could always go with a 5.3L, I figured the 4L80E was plenty strong to hold up to even a 400HP motor!

Can't do a 5.3L swap into a 5.7L truck in CA. Must go same displacement, or BIGGER.

And really, the only difference between the 5.3 and 6.0 swap is $$$.

What do you guys say though? Who's put more power behind a mildly upgraded 91 generation 4l80e? Maybe i'm over concerned with that one.

The other issue with a LS swap is my A/C. I'm not giving it up. Although, there seem to be some high mount setups to use my compressor. But, again, custom type belt drive configs....

 

[454Sub]

A 4L80 will take 400hp all day long. Remember, HP technically is torque lost at higher RPMs. Or some gibberish similar to that. Torque is what breaks stuff. The 4L80 came behind the Vortec 454, and it has more tq than the 6.0. Point being, that 4L80 will take a 6.0 with a smile every day, all day.

I have seen 6.0 swaps that keep the factory compressor in its location, my brothers LQ9 has his A/C in the same spot. He had to grind the frame rail a bit, but no harm no foul.

 

[dhcomp]

A 4L80 will take 400hp all day long. Remember, HP technically is torque lost at higher RPMs. Or some gibberish similar to that. Torque is what breaks stuff. The 4L80 came behind the Vortec 454, and it has more tq than the 6.0. Point being, that 4L80 will take a 6.0 with a smile every day, all day.

I have seen 6.0 swaps that keep the factory compressor in its location, my brothers LQ9 has his A/C in the same spot. He had to grind the frame rail a bit, but no harm no foul.

Damn you guys, making me think i should do a 6.0L now....

Any info on the stock a/c setup?

 

[454Sub]

When faced with a problem such as displacement. I have discovered, that the 5.3 is not worth it if you can get the 6.0 reasonable. How many people have you heard say "its just to much power"..... I could have a funny car engine in my truck, and still want a bit more. I think thats just in our blood.

On the A/C, I cant remember the brand he used, but they slid around and up and down all fancy like. Compared to my regular old 454 stuff as he says. Anyways, after that, he just had to grind the top part of the framerail back, then he did a little boxing work on the outside and around the grind, so as not to mess with the integrity of the framerail to much. Other than that, its on there, now his does not have the lines as of yet, he hasnt decided on either cutting a hole in the frame, and boxing it, or having a hydrohose shop cut and bend him a pair of lines, and TIG them on to the factory line plate doo dah. Neither is a huge deal, but if you go about this swap, I would put A/C last on the list, as there is a metric ton of wiring to get the factory gauges working right, and the computer to take what your making it do, and running a speed sensor if that isnt there, and yada yada blah blah. And depending on your smog (we have none) it gets even worse.

 

[dhcomp]

When faced with a problem such as displacement. I have discovered, that the 5.3 is not worth it if you can get the 6.0 reasonable. How many people have you heard say "its just to much power"..... I could have a funny car engine in my truck, and still want a bit more. I think thats just in our blood.

On the A/C, I cant remember the brand he used, but they slid around and up and down all fancy like. Compared to my regular old 454 stuff as he says. Anyways, after that, he just had to grind the top part of the framerail back, then he did a little boxing work on the outside and around the grind, so as not to mess with the integrity of the framerail to much. Other than that, its on there, now his does not have the lines as of yet, he hasnt decided on either cutting a hole in the frame, and boxing it, or having a hydrohose shop cut and bend him a pair of lines, and TIG them on to the factory line plate doo dah. Neither is a huge deal, but if you go about this swap, I would put A/C last on the list, as there is a metric ton of wiring to get the factory gauges working right, and the computer to take what your making it do, and running a speed sensor if that isnt there, and yada yada blah blah. And depending on your smog (we have none) it gets even worse.

Yep, i gotta deal with it all. I would run factory AC lines though, or that was the plan, if mounted in the factory position.

Gauges are the only real hard part. The rest is pretty turn key.

Looking back and BD turnkey's stuff, there is an option to get it setup to run a 4l80e .

Here i go again, derailing my own thread, while continuing to do nothing....

 

[dyeager535]

Here i go again, derailing my own thread, while continuing to do nothing....

Better to do what you want, when you can, than look back and say "man, I should have done X".

When not desperate for time, you can prep stuff in anticipation, waiting for good deals, just the right parts, etc.

 

[1leg]

I went with the 4bolt motor on mine but i wish everyday that i had done a 454 swap. If you don't need alot of towing power i would go with the 96+ 5.7 vortec swap. The engine will bolt in like the stock one. you can reuse all your brackets, AC and power steering. And the wireing will be a little easier.

So far i have passed smog once but it was close.

 

[dhcomp]

I went with the 4bolt motor on mine but i wish everyday that i had done a 454 swap. If you don't need alot of towing power i would go with the 96+ 5.7 vortec swap. The engine will bolt in like the stock one. you can reuse all your brackets, AC and power steering. And the wireing will be a little easier.

So far i have passed smog once but it was close.

The 5.7L vortec swap would be a sweet ticket. But, they are hard to find with decent mileage on them, and i'd need a 5.7L vortec to 4l80e computer.

But besides that hickup, the 5.7L or 454 vortec swap woudl be waaaayyy easier.

 

[454Sub]

You could always run aftermarket gauges. But that is an added expense. Or, my cousin swapped in the entire factory 6.0 gauge set into is Suburban. Both my brother and cousin have done the 6.0 swap.

Really you need to nail down what motor you want, then start. I looked at everything, and decided on a roller 454 converted to TBI. And ran a th400 and np205. Its simple, it never tosses check engine lights, it was easy to swap, and its a beast to boot. I am not a fan of the LS series motors, or Vortec motors. Its not exactly the motor itself. But the wiring on them is extensive, they need tons of sensors to operate. That I do not like. Sure they make more power than mine, but actually not really. Mine is warmed over. But the chances of failure in my form of wheeling (mud/water) is greatly increased by all the added sensors and such. And dragging 7000lbs of dead weight to a trailer really brings the suck.

If you go the Vortec 454, I would junk the intake, and buy a oval port carb intake and swap on the TBI setup. But thats just me. Whatever you do, dont buy a TBI 454, they are weak.

On the Vortec 350, even with alot of miles, rings, bearings and a gasket kit, plus doing the heads isnt all that expensive. You could even swap in a decent aftermarket cam and springs and still come in pretty cheap if you do the work yourself. If the engine has never spun a bearing or isnt knocking, you can just hone the cylinders, put new bearings in it, redo the heads and fire it up.

 

[dhcomp]

Thanks for the input.

I'm a big fan of my stock interior, so i'd run the gauges i've got. Really, my gauges wouldn't be more work than aftermarket gauges. Its just all wiring that isn't plug and play.

Definitely not going TBI 454. Drove a burb with one of those, was not impressed.