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Heat Soak problem is back!

BayouBlazer88

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About a year and a half ago I installed Edelbrock TES headers on my blazer and eventually developed a heat soak problem (starter would barely turn when the engine was still hot). So I did what everyone told me to do which was to install a remote starter solenoid which I did and connected it to the firewall. I never had anymore problems with heat soak for a while until about a month or two ago. Today I went to Home Depot to get some 2-stroke oil so I was only in there for about 10 min and when I came out it wouldnt start. Usually, if I just keep it in the "start" position it will eventually crank and crank and crank and then start. Today I did just that but it wouldnt crank fast enough to start the engine. And I noticed a burnt smell. I opened the hood and there was slight smoke coming from my battery. And naturally I had to go and tighten the connections and almost burnt a hole in my thumb and forefinger. I let it set for a few minutes and tried again and it finally started (by the hardest). So anyway, does anyone know what the problem could be this time? Do I need to think about getting one of those inulated starter boots to put on the starter? Could my starter be going out? (I doubt this because it cranks fine whenever the engine is cold.) Any other ideas? Thanks in advance for the help.
 

justhorsinaround

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This is new to me. I had a hotrod that was happiest with the hood off but never had a prollem with the hood on after the spare solenoid trick. What's the condition of the battery? Maybe old and on the way out? Check the condition of all the starter assosciated wires and the grounds.

Basically what you were prolly told the first time around with the problems.

Good luck to ya in the future.

Allan
 

BayouBlazer88

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the battery is an Autozone Duramax Gold and is a little over 2 years old. The starter hasnt been replaced since I've had it. If I were to guess I'd say it's the original but I'm not sure. I noticed that in the Haynes repair manual, one of the suggested causes for difficult starting when warm was a worn starter which wasnt listed in the "difficult starting when cold" section. So I'm guessing it could just need a new starter. Now where do I get these mini high torque starters and how much do they run? Thanks.
 

BowtieBlazer

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Matt you know me, I have the same setup, a new 1000 CCA 900CA battery, new starter, new selenoid, new cables, factory starter heat sheild, and my flowtech's do the same thing STILL.....going to a dual battery setup and I bet that will cure it
 

Okiemuddog

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Autozone carries high torque starters, lifetime warranty and they run about $125, but well worth the money /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif I am buying one when my starter goes, probably not long with the oil leak I have right now /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif
 

BayouBlazer88

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So these high torque starters should solve my warm starting problem? Well, if they dont then it's time to say bye bye to the headers. I'll probably look at replacing the starter in about 3 weeks. I'll let you know how it goes.
 

dyeager535

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One of the 4wd magazines did a test on a vehicle that was having these problems. Everything they did seemed to help a bit, but the ONLY thing that completely alleviated it was a high torque "mini" (gear reduction) starter.

FWIW, I don't buy battery cable's being a significant problem UNLESS they are bad or the connections are horrible. No matter what size cables you put on it, you can't put ones on that are large enough to handle the current the starter draws when cranking. It may HELP to go larger, but it won't eliminate the problem.
Cranking Amp Waveform

I'm sure I could go search further and find something that tells what size cable you'd need to handle 240-420 amps, but I'd be willing to bet it's larger than any battery cable you can buy. I'm guessing that waveform is a 4 cylinder anyways.

You can "rebuild" the side terminal battery cables by pulling the threaded portion out of the rubber "housing", which will give you access to the ring terminal, which can then be brushed clean. BTW, this is one of the reasons I like stock GM cables, the end is sealed against corrosion, or at least better than all aftermarket garbage I've seen. (New Delco replacements however appear to be as cheap as aftermarket anymore)

I went through this on my car, the cables were pencil thin from GM, and going with a larger cable helped, but they still got VERY hot with prolonged cranking.
 

BayouBlazer88

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OK, I went to summit and Jeg's and found a few mini-starters:

-Summit brand mini high torque starter #SUM-G1660 for $158
-CSI brand mini high torque starter #CSI-100 for $215
-Jeg's brand mini high torque starter #555-10021 for $175

Which one would you recommend? All 3 have the in-line bolt pattern and say that they will fit pretty much any SBC. Will this fit on my 88' 350 with AT correctly? Also, should I continue to use the remote mounted solenoid or should I just connect it regularly? Thanks.
 

dyeager535

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I'm not going to recommend any, a I have no personal experience nor horror stories from users that have. I guess I do know flexplate/flywheel sizes, so anything made for a a 168 tooth flexplate should fit yours, right auto trans guys?

I'm sure there are a few on here that are running mini-starters, and can recommend based on experience. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I have pondered running a stock one off of a SBC, Vortec engines may have used them. I'd go with just about anything that had a lifetime warranty though. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

realsquash

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I have used the Tilton starter on my hot 454 and had zero problems with it. It was expensive, over $200 iirc.

I still think you need to clean up your connections first, it's a matter of good practice anyways. Eliminate that first.

Of all the Chevy trucks I've had none had this "heatsoak" problem, BB or SBC. They've all had headers of all different kinds, too.

Andy
 

spearchucker

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I just installed a PowerMaster 9200 gear reduction starter about 4 months ago. I got it from Summit and if I remember correctly it was about 2 bills. You need one that has the mounting holes inline. The only installation problem I had was that one of the mounting bolts that came boxed with the starter didn't have any threads on it. Made me wonder about quality control. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Sent an email to Powermaster and they overnighted a new set of mounting bolts. I tried reusing the old bolts but almost cracked the engine block because the were too long. I'm happy with mine though. If you do get one you'll notice it sounds alot different on startup.
 

NITRO

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i used the powermaster XS mini starter on my 454 and had really no troubles. the only thing that did give me trouble was it actually sheared a grade 8 bolt off on one side in the block. dont know why, it just happened. other than that, no problems at all.

NITRO
 

BayouBlazer88

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For now I decided to just order a heat sheild (which is basically just a boot made from insulation) instead of dumping almost $200 on a new starter. Summit no longer carries the Summit brand mini starter for $160 anymore unless you want the chrome version for $200. So if this doesn't help the heat soak problem, I'll either buy the Jeg's brand hi-torque mini starter for $175 or the GMPP hi-torque mini starter for about the same price which Scoggin' Dickey carries. Thanks for the replies though.
 

mouse

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It sounds like to me that you need some battery cables. Make sure they are in good shape or buy bigger, better cables. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
 

BayouBlazer88

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Update!

Been running that heat shield that I bought from summit for about $20 for about a week now and it has done absolutely nothing to cure the warm start problem. Now a lot of you guys suggest buying bigger, better cables. I have one of the remote mounted solenoids in my truck mounted to the firewall right next to the AC condenser. So I have one cable going from the battery to the solenoid and one going from the solenoid to the starter. So which one should I consider replacing? or both? and what gauge cable should I use if I replace the cable? Thanks guys.
 

Blue85

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I had heat soak problems a long time ago and it always cleared up for 9 months or so after putting in another remanufactured starter. There is a lifetime warranty on the starter and the swap isn't too bad, but why go through that all the time?

What fixed it for me was a variation (read: "improvement") on the old remote solenoid trick. Basically, the remote solenoid only triggers the built-in starter solenoid. The current to turn the starter comes directly from the battery. This means that the starter motor current only goes through one set of contacts instead of two, which is the improvement.

So a fat cable goes from the battery to the big terminal on the starter. Then the "start" pink wire from the steering column triggers the remote solenoid, which drives the small terminal on the starter from the battery through medium to big cable. The idea is to throw the starter solenoid hard to ensure a good contact. The stock pink wire is too small and too long to do this when things are hot.

I have headers and still use the stock-style starter and have no heat soak problems anymore. This starter is a cheap re-man and has been on the vehicle for 2-3 years.
 

BowtieBlazer

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Since I have gone to true dual exhaust and no crossover pipe right after the headers my heat soak has disappeared

/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
 
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