Top post or side post? No matter what, fix this connection first. If it doesn't tighten down properly, it's likely a large part of the problem.
If it is a connection problem, jump starting will not help as the connection isn't carrying the load.
CK5
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Help! Truck won’t start! Gas 350
- Thread starter GoGoGirl
- Start date
Top post or side post? No matter what, fix this connection first. If it doesn't tighten down properly, it's likely a large part of the problem.
If it is a connection problem, jump starting will not help as the connection isn't carrying the load.
Side post. I’m not sure what is original M1009 and what was added by a previous owner.
I read on Wikihow showing how to replace the entire battery wire. It seems too easy. Remove the battery, follow the wire to the starter, remove the bolt holding it on, replace with new wire, run to battery, and I’m done. Really? I can do that but seems too easy.
Yep. Pretty much that simple. That's would be the positive cable if it's going to the starter. Same thing for the negative. But instead of going to the starter, it will go to the engine (like to the alternator bracket, or something) or to the frame.
If it goes to the frame, there should be another cable (may look different) that goes from the frame to drivetrain to complete the circuit. Sometimes located in the bell housing area. Since the engine and transmission/transfer case mounts are rubber, they are insulated from the chassis. That why they require a ground strap to complete the circuit.
The thing to look out for when installing is to route the cable in a way so as to not be where it can rub on anything the will vibrate and rub a hole in it and keep clear of the exhaust so it doesn't melt it.
T
tenderfoot
Guest
I had problems with corroded battery cables when I was a kid. Couldn't tell they were corroded, they looked fine. Beat my head against a wall on that one. If I only had CK5 back then.
Another possibility is maybe the neutral safety switch is either going bad,or isn't adjusted right,so it is stopping current from getting to the solenoid and crank the engine over..
It is supposed to only let the starter crank with the gear shift in park or neutral,or if it is a manual transmission,it will have a different type switch on the clutch pedal,that wont let the starter crank until you push in the clutch pedal all the way down..
On automatic transmissions ,the neutral safety is located on the steering colum down next to the firewall..it will have two thick wires,one is usually purple,which goes to the starter solenoid,the other may be either purple or red,which comes from the ignition switch and supplies 12V to the starter solenoid (as long as the safety switch is in park or neutral position)...there will be other wires on another plug,that operate the back up lamps when you shift to reverse..
You can unplug the neutral safety switch wires going to the solenoid and jump the connector with something to by-pass the switch,that will let the starter crank no matter if the transmission is in gear or not ,so be careful ..
I had intermittent issues with my pickup failing to crank,or just "clicking" sometimes,and after I replaced battery cables and batteries,starters,and the issue still persisted intermittently,I by-passed the neutral safety switch and it hasn't failed to crank since..
On my '72 K5 I had swapped a manual transmission in the truck in place of the original TH350,so I had to be sure to place the colum shifter "collar" in just the right spot so the neutral safety would let it crank--I eventually just hooked up a push button to the starter solenoid so it would crank no matter what..
It is supposed to only let the starter crank with the gear shift in park or neutral,or if it is a manual transmission,it will have a different type switch on the clutch pedal,that wont let the starter crank until you push in the clutch pedal all the way down..
On automatic transmissions ,the neutral safety is located on the steering colum down next to the firewall..it will have two thick wires,one is usually purple,which goes to the starter solenoid,the other may be either purple or red,which comes from the ignition switch and supplies 12V to the starter solenoid (as long as the safety switch is in park or neutral position)...there will be other wires on another plug,that operate the back up lamps when you shift to reverse..
You can unplug the neutral safety switch wires going to the solenoid and jump the connector with something to by-pass the switch,that will let the starter crank no matter if the transmission is in gear or not ,so be careful ..
I had intermittent issues with my pickup failing to crank,or just "clicking" sometimes,and after I replaced battery cables and batteries,starters,and the issue still persisted intermittently,I by-passed the neutral safety switch and it hasn't failed to crank since..
On my '72 K5 I had swapped a manual transmission in the truck in place of the original TH350,so I had to be sure to place the colum shifter "collar" in just the right spot so the neutral safety would let it crank--I eventually just hooked up a push button to the starter solenoid so it would crank no matter what..
@diesel4me, I took a photo of what I see when I remove the lower steering column cover. Where do I look there?And here is an idea of what the positive battery terminal clamp looks like. Doesn’t appear much different than when I got the vehicle, but is a pain in the ass to tighten the bolt.
That is a "universal battery terminal" replacement end intended for temporary use to replace the rotted or corroded factory end of the cable.
Though I have used them "permanently" without much issue,you just need to make sure to keep the clamp where it contacts the cable strands and itself nice and clean by wire brushing them,and coating everything with some vaseline or grease to ward off corrosion..
The neutral safety switch for an automatic transmission looks like this on most square body trucks..it is mounted on the top part of the steering colum down next to the firewall..
(I'm not familiar with military wiring on 24V models,they may differ from what I have dealt with on my trucks BTW)..the photo is one for a 1980 truck,but other years look similar ,and may or may not have more wires going to it..
Far as I can recall,the plug on the far right of it should have the wires I mentioned that come from the ignition switch,and go to the solenoid..(could be wrong,it's been awhile since I've had to look at mine!)..
If the truck will not crank because the neutral safety switch isn't adjusted just right,you can often get it to crank by holding the key in the "start" position with your foot on the brake,and moving the shift lever up or down slightly--it may start up "in gear",so be sure to keep the brakes applied while doing this..
Though I have used them "permanently" without much issue,you just need to make sure to keep the clamp where it contacts the cable strands and itself nice and clean by wire brushing them,and coating everything with some vaseline or grease to ward off corrosion..
The neutral safety switch for an automatic transmission looks like this on most square body trucks..it is mounted on the top part of the steering colum down next to the firewall..
(I'm not familiar with military wiring on 24V models,they may differ from what I have dealt with on my trucks BTW)..the photo is one for a 1980 truck,but other years look similar ,and may or may not have more wires going to it..
Far as I can recall,the plug on the far right of it should have the wires I mentioned that come from the ignition switch,and go to the solenoid..(could be wrong,it's been awhile since I've had to look at mine!)..
If the truck will not crank because the neutral safety switch isn't adjusted just right,you can often get it to crank by holding the key in the "start" position with your foot on the brake,and moving the shift lever up or down slightly--it may start up "in gear",so be sure to keep the brakes applied while doing this..
That looks like a universal cable end on a top post to side post adapter. While it looks like it does not have corrosion on the outside, I wonder if there is some in between all of those connection points. And the ground cable could be the same.
Some time in the early eighties the neutral safety switch became easily adjusted, it just clicks on detents. Maybe this has it, and has moved?
This is one.
Some time in the early eighties the neutral safety switch became easily adjusted, it just clicks on detents. Maybe this has it, and has moved?
This is one.
Bingo! I forgot to ever explain that!
Side of the battery has threaded terminals. Negative battery cable from vehicle terminates in a ring, through which I place a bolt to hold it in the battery. Positive has a post, as you can see, threaded into it. I did that because the vehicle side of the connection has a "lug" type terminal as you can see.
I bought a new positive wire-end, crimp-on terminal...but would I be better off changing it to the ring style?
My 2 cents, you have a top post replacement cable end on that + battery post, with an adapter for side post battery. Is the negative post the same ? If so this could be a problem area. That's 4 connections just at the battery. It is possible to to lose voltage at each connection, industry rule of thumb is .5 volts. So you could be down to 10 volts before you get power to starter.
In your situation I would replace both positive and negative battery cables, to eliminate them as the problem.
https://m.autozone.com/batteries-st...ast-battery-cable-ds455b/570471_310062_0?aqs=
This would be positive. Negative will be shorter but same configuration.
Or you could source a 4 gauge cable, 3/8" eyelet lug on each end, use 3/8" crimp connectors for the 2 fuseable links. Short 3/8 16 bolts with flat washers to connect to battery end.
If battery was to be replaced I would get a top post.
4 guage minimum cable. I prefer 2 guage, but also make my own cables, tuff to find ready made.
Do you have a volt meter? If you hook volt meter from + at battery to + on starter and watch while turning key to start. The meter will display voltage drop(voltage, current, that doesn't want to go through the battery cables)if meter shows move than 1.5volts there is to much resistance in that cable.
In your situation I would replace both positive and negative battery cables, to eliminate them as the problem.
https://m.autozone.com/batteries-st...ast-battery-cable-ds455b/570471_310062_0?aqs=
This would be positive. Negative will be shorter but same configuration.
Or you could source a 4 gauge cable, 3/8" eyelet lug on each end, use 3/8" crimp connectors for the 2 fuseable links. Short 3/8 16 bolts with flat washers to connect to battery end.
If battery was to be replaced I would get a top post.
4 guage minimum cable. I prefer 2 guage, but also make my own cables, tuff to find ready made.
Do you have a volt meter? If you hook volt meter from + at battery to + on starter and watch while turning key to start. The meter will display voltage drop(voltage, current, that doesn't want to go through the battery cables)if meter shows move than 1.5volts there is to much resistance in that cable.
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If you put a ring style cable end on then you don't have to use the adapter with the battery that you already have. Using the adapter gives you an extra connection to keep clean and corrosion free. It can be done, but you will want to keep an eye on it. I like the idea that Bob posted of using a little grease to help slow corrosion. I have sprayed penetrating oil on battery posts before, just don't use some with a dielectric solution in it. I believe that those are rare, but I have some at work.
You would be better off replacing the cables at this point, those look like trash. The M1009 originally came with top posts so just ask for a civilian K5 battery cables for a 350 for the same year.
The only thing you may not have covered with the replacement steps, is to be sure the positive cable goes through the clamp that hold it off the edge of the frame and exhaust.
The only thing you may not have covered with the replacement steps, is to be sure the positive cable goes through the clamp that hold it off the edge of the frame and exhaust.
Not only are bolt-clamps for the wire bad, a side-to-top post adapter is only rated for charging a battery (like on a store shelf). They aren't intended for the current a starter motor pulls.
If you don't have the correct tools to install and insulate battery crimp terminals, just buy new side post cables as stated above. Even if you do have access to the cable crimpers, by the time you cut off the corroded copper the wire may be too short. The copper is not supposed to be exposed to the air like that.
If you don't have the correct tools to install and insulate battery crimp terminals, just buy new side post cables as stated above. Even if you do have access to the cable crimpers, by the time you cut off the corroded copper the wire may be too short. The copper is not supposed to be exposed to the air like that.
Thanks again for all the wisdom!
I had planned to try to work with what I have and cut off the end of the cable today and put on a new terminal, but ran out of time before work.
I followed the positive wire with my eye. It looks like it is wrapped in plastic loom and has a splice somewhere just below/behind the alternator. Appears as if the main/thick wire snakes down to the starter, but has three (?) smaller red wires coming off of it by the alternator. Two of them possibly go to the alternator. Before I dig into that project, does anyone know what I am seeing? It would really suck to go buy a battery wire kit at a store and then find out I have to start splicing and cutting things. I don't think I even have anything to join together wires that thick.
I had planned to try to work with what I have and cut off the end of the cable today and put on a new terminal, but ran out of time before work.
I followed the positive wire with my eye. It looks like it is wrapped in plastic loom and has a splice somewhere just below/behind the alternator. Appears as if the main/thick wire snakes down to the starter, but has three (?) smaller red wires coming off of it by the alternator. Two of them possibly go to the alternator. Before I dig into that project, does anyone know what I am seeing? It would really suck to go buy a battery wire kit at a store and then find out I have to start splicing and cutting things. I don't think I even have anything to join together wires that thick.
If anyone spliced into the main battery cable, you don't want to repeat that mistake. Just run a new wire to replace it. For now, remove the plastic loom and post pictures of what is inside. Hopefully your gas conversion was not a complete hack job...
I've used 3/8" copper tubing to splice battery cables in a pinch--you can smash it flat with a hammer after inserting the cables and if desired,solder it too,with a propane torch...keep in mind this is a crude "fix" not intended for permanent use,but it'll last a long time..harder still is to re-insulate the tubing with something so it wont short out to ground if its the positive cable--heater hose or heat shrink tubing,or lots of electrical tape works ..
I had a lot of no-crank issues with my 72 K5 even after I put in a push button to activate the solenoid (thinking my ignition switch may have been bad in the "crank" position)...sometimes it still just "clunked" or spun over a few times and would quit,then nothing..
One day it refused to start so I crawled under the truck to jump the solenoid with a screwdriver,and I got nothing but some weak sparks..so I rolled the truck down an incline,and popped the clutch with the key "on" to start it...while driving it home,everything went dead..no lights,no radio,no cranking,it was like the battery was missing..
I spent a half hour crawling around under the truck looking for burnt or disconnected wires,found none..as a last resort I decided to take the battery cables off and clean them and the terminals--when I pulled on the positive one to be able to get at it better (it was so short it barely reached the battery),I discovered a large lump of tape on the cable where it went under the battery box..
I unwrapped all the tape and what looked like baking powder came out,all the wires were corroded away,except a few strands!..soimeone simply hacked the old side post end off the cable and "spliced" a top post one to it --by twisting the wires together,and just taping the snot out of it!...
I had jumper cables with me,so I used one to hook the battery positive post to the starter where the cable went to the solenoid,and it cranked right up and ran--next day I replaced that cable ,and noticed everything now worked a lot better--starter spun faster,the lights were brighter at night,even the radio had less static and better bass..
New cables are always better--factory ones often are a combo of copper and aluminum,which isn't as good as a conductor than all copper is...and if someone hacked two cables together,the splice will likely be all gangrene and corroded after a year or so..
I had a lot of no-crank issues with my 72 K5 even after I put in a push button to activate the solenoid (thinking my ignition switch may have been bad in the "crank" position)...sometimes it still just "clunked" or spun over a few times and would quit,then nothing..
One day it refused to start so I crawled under the truck to jump the solenoid with a screwdriver,and I got nothing but some weak sparks..so I rolled the truck down an incline,and popped the clutch with the key "on" to start it...while driving it home,everything went dead..no lights,no radio,no cranking,it was like the battery was missing..
I spent a half hour crawling around under the truck looking for burnt or disconnected wires,found none..as a last resort I decided to take the battery cables off and clean them and the terminals--when I pulled on the positive one to be able to get at it better (it was so short it barely reached the battery),I discovered a large lump of tape on the cable where it went under the battery box..
I unwrapped all the tape and what looked like baking powder came out,all the wires were corroded away,except a few strands!..soimeone simply hacked the old side post end off the cable and "spliced" a top post one to it --by twisting the wires together,and just taping the snot out of it!...
I had jumper cables with me,so I used one to hook the battery positive post to the starter where the cable went to the solenoid,and it cranked right up and ran--next day I replaced that cable ,and noticed everything now worked a lot better--starter spun faster,the lights were brighter at night,even the radio had less static and better bass..
New cables are always better--factory ones often are a combo of copper and aluminum,which isn't as good as a conductor than all copper is...and if someone hacked two cables together,the splice will likely be all gangrene and corroded after a year or so..
I hope I don't have any crazy experiences with halfassed electrical work!! It looks like the person who did most of the work on this vehicle knew what they were doing, it's just been years since then.
Plan now is to get home tonight and explore the positive wire and let y'all know what I find. Wake up tomorrow and hit an auto parts store...depending on what I find tonight will determine what I buy.
Plan now is to get home tonight and explore the positive wire and let y'all know what I find. Wake up tomorrow and hit an auto parts store...depending on what I find tonight will determine what I buy.
Slow day at work so I am doing my "homework"...update...maybe I have a two wire alternator? Would that be why I seem to see two wires spliced off of the main one from the battery? And all the wire kits I see online appear to be for a one-wire alternator. Could I somehow make that work? As I recall, only one wire is needed to charge the battery, and the second is for a voltage regulating circuit or some such. Which makes me think I can run only one wire.
I am hoping the 2 wires that appear to come from the + cable to alternator are the fuseable links. The fuseable links provide power to the rest of the truck.
The Alternator gets battery voltage all the time at the larger threaded lug.
The plug gets a switched 12v, the 3rd terminal if used is to charging lamp in the instrument panel.
You should go straight from battery to starter. The fuse links can be spliced to a pig tail at battery, or have their own ring eyes to connect to battery.
The Alternator + lead should be 10 ga and come from the hot source at the firewall.
The Alternator gets battery voltage all the time at the larger threaded lug.
The plug gets a switched 12v, the 3rd terminal if used is to charging lamp in the instrument panel.
You should go straight from battery to starter. The fuse links can be spliced to a pig tail at battery, or have their own ring eyes to connect to battery.
The Alternator + lead should be 10 ga and come from the hot source at the firewall.
Ok, so here are the photos.
Two separate wires leave the battery terminal. Two are grouped together and pass through a black cylindrical bead (ferrite?) together, then separate. A single one passes through the other black bead.
All three go into the wire loom shield thing.
At the alternator, a black wire emerges from the wire loom along with a red one, which become a connector (?) on the alternator.
I think the other two red wires continue into the wire loom toward the starter.
So what am I looking at and how do I shop for a replacement?
Two separate wires leave the battery terminal. Two are grouped together and pass through a black cylindrical bead (ferrite?) together, then separate. A single one passes through the other black bead.
All three go into the wire loom shield thing.
At the alternator, a black wire emerges from the wire loom along with a red one, which become a connector (?) on the alternator.
I think the other two red wires continue into the wire loom toward the starter.
So what am I looking at and how do I shop for a replacement?
