Help with Bilstein 5100 valving choice

[mrk5]

I'm not on the correct computer to copy the info they sent me when I asked about the specifics on the valving. So for now I'll spew what I remember from memory, but it may not be 100% accurate.

The way they gave the number was something like 10 10 8 8 on compression and say 8 8 8 8 on rebound. I know those numbers aren't accurate. It had to do with the number of certain size holes in the discs, and a certain number of discs in the compression/rebound sets. Probably the deflective discs you are talking about.

That's another interesting plus to know about then, the Doetsch's have bigger shafts than the Bilsteins. IIRC, compression is 300+ pounds on my front shocks.

I'll get all the correct information posted, but maybe if you know enough about shocks that'll give you a little more insight.

 

[54inches]

Nice!

 

[supersize75k5]

do you have link as to where you bought them?

those prices are sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet


these would look nice on the buggy


which ones did you get? I think I would need the 36 inches extended shock

 

[ntsqd]

I'm not on the correct computer to copy the info they sent me when I asked about the specifics on the valving. So for now I'll spew what I remember from memory, but it may not be 100% accurate.

The way they gave the number was something like 10 10 8 8 on compression and say 8 8 8 8 on rebound. I know those numbers aren't accurate. It had to do with the number of certain size holes in the discs, and a certain number of discs in the compression/rebound sets. Probably the deflective discs you are talking about.

That's another interesting plus to know about then, the Doetsch's have bigger shafts than the Bilsteins. IIRC, compression is 300+ pounds on my front shocks.

I'll get all the correct information posted, but maybe if you know enough about shocks that'll give you a little more insight.

Numbers like that look like a King valve stack were the diameter of each shim position within the stack is fixed, but the thickness of each shim can vary. May or may not be any holes in the shims, assuming that's what they are. Usually they don't do holes in the shims instead they do some cool machining of the pistons, but holes could be done.

Some Bils & other brands also have larger than 14mm shafts, it's not unique. Up until now though the only larger shafts I knew of (& that's not saying much) in a 2" body came from Fox.

 

[mrk5]

This is the info the sent me when I asked them about the valving.

2.0 monotube valving stacks are made up of 4 discs that control the compression and rebound based on the thickness of each disc stacked on top of each other. These discs flex upon the entry of oil through the piston port. The ports in the pistons have 3 rebound ports and 6 compression ports.

Below you will find the basic valve stacks and the dampening forces produced using the stacks listed for both compression and rebound. The valving that is installed in your new shock is the base line or "medium" valving for that type of vehicle. Valving or dampening forces are determined by personal preferences, i.e. soft, medium, firm.

Other than oval track applications, valving's are very rarely #1 over #1 "50/50 style", typically the rebound side is always greater (thicker discs) than the compression side. Here is an example of a very common medium valving and how it is described.

Medium valving: #2/#5, or 2 over 5, or 2/5 This means you use discs from column #2 for compression and discs from column #5 rebound. Using these you would have a valving of 180 lbs. Of compression and 350 lbs. of rebound.

 

[mrk5]

Numbers like that look like a King valve stack were the diameter of each shim position within the stack is fixed, but the thickness of each shim can vary. May or may not be any holes in the shims, assuming that's what they are. Usually they don't do holes in the shims instead they do some cool machining of the pistons, but holes could be done.

Some Bils & other brands also have larger than 14mm shafts, it's not unique. Up until now though the only larger shafts I knew of (& that's not saying much) in a 2" body came from Fox.

I got them direct from Doetsch Tech. I did most of the transaction through e-mail along with a couple of phone calls. The first e-mail I sent them was an entire book about my truck. I wanted to make sure they had all of the application information I could possibly give them.

Here's a link to their contact page:http://www.doetsch-shocks.com/contact.asp

Oh and I would get the 14" travel shocks, the longest. I'm glad I did. I could have gotten by with 12", but I would have had no room for error. At least this way I have 2-3" to play with.

 

[ntsqd]

Something to keep in the back of your mind is that those damping forces are only true at one specific shock shaft speed. At other speeds the forces will be different.
So it's not like a spring where you know it takes XXX lbs to compress it one inch, and then that much more to compress it another inch.

The only way this really matters is if you are trying to compare damping btwn two different brands b/c each brand rates their damping at different shaft speeds.

Also know that in the case of Bilsteins, the numbers are Newtons of force, not pounds.

 

[supersize75k5]

i cant decide which to order!


the bilstines 5150's with the resi @100.00

or the d-techs with no resi but they are rebuildable @109

hmm, I know this sounds silly but I almost dont want the d-tecks just because theya re chrome everything else is satin finish aluminum on my project


any thoughts on a air shock with springs? later on I may decide to link the front, I dunno ?? Also looke at the 17 inch 9100 bilstines but the cost is coil over territory

 

[ntsqd]

Air springs on a heavy vehicle = slow speed only. They're work if you drive it fast, but the air changes the spring rate with changes in shock temperature so it never will behave quite the same in every corner or rough spot.

 

[mrk5]

I finally drove my truck home today with the DT 2.0 monotubes and the truck rode great with 52/56 setup. I can't tell a difference between the ride now and before with 2.5" lift and no flip.

They are shiny!

 

[supersize75k5]

http://www.gorancho.com/flash/rancho.html

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=ran-rs999223

ended up getting the new ranch 9000xl

2.75" shock body
9 way adjustable
18 millimeter shaft
and a shelp item for local 4x4 shops..


I like the idea of being able to adjust it easily and I dont like the idea of having a custom valved shock since variables change or might or if I brake it I cant just go trade it in for a new one if I ran the bilsteins or doshtechs!

they apear to be beefy!


oh..and I got them for 75.00 each!!! most places list them at 99.99

 

[mini_mull]

Isn't that like comparing apples to oranges? Tri-tube Ranchos to monotube bilsteins or Doetsch.

BTW, I've ran RS9000s before and I wasn't impressed, good luck with 'em.

 

[ntsqd]

I must say that I'm impressed by the 18mm shaft, but I'd also rather have Bils etc. over Ranchos. That being said, I currently have Bil 7100's on the rear of my Sub and Rancho 9k's on the front, but the 9k's will only be there until I can get around to building front mounts for the quad Fox's.

A couple things about monotube shocks.
First, once the valving is correct (depending on how picky you are & how far from the norm the vehicle is this could be off-the-shelf or lots of tune-n-test) you don't have to re-tune them unless you put them on a completely different vehicle, or radically change the vehicle they're on. To illustrate this, the Fox's I have for the front of the Sub came off the rear of a Toyota mini Pre-Runner. They are nicely valved for that application. The shock valve guy I talked to at Mirage suggested that that same valving should be pretty close on the front of the Sub.
Second, the deflective disc design used in most monotube shocks is self-adjusting. Ranchos are fixed valving, what you set them at is what you get whether bombing down a washboard road or in Stupid-Low crawling over rocks. The deflective discs in a monotube change the metering size depending on how fast the tire is moving, so they change their valving to suit what ever it is that you're doing - without your needing to do anything with them.

 

[mrk5]

You've got some great shock knowledge! Seems like a hard thing to find on the mighty Internet boards. I've gotten a lot from reading your posts in this thread.

You just supported my thinking. The valving on the shocks has gotta have some room for changes to the vehicle. Otherwise it would be a nightmare for any company to try and sell them.

I didn't want the adjustable Ranchos because I'm too lazy to mess with adjusting them all the time.

As far as the value of monotube shocks, I figure there's a reason Edelbrock has changed their IAS line-up from twin-tube to monotubes. I don't think they would go to the effort and expense of making the change if it wasn't worth it.