Hindsight being 20/20.....

[troutbum_mt]

For those of you have majorly overhauled your rigs or for those of you who have just being doing things here and there; looking back on things, what would you have done differently? What I mean by differently is either in parts or order. Starting from scratch if you could, what order would you have done things and what would you have done differently (either parts manufacturers, further upgrades, etc)? I am basically trying to restore this thing to a nice looking rig, but I want good offroad capabilities combined with good fuel economy.

Here are a few of my "visions":

1) Upgrade the axles to 14ff and d60
2) Rebuild/replace the 400 engine and trick it out (fuel injection too if possible)
3) Upgrade the tranny to a TH400 or better although I don't know what is best (definitely don't want a manual)
4) 6" of lift so I can handle tires up to 36" but will probably run 33s most of the time
5) Doubler (currently have a 203 but want a 205 so a doubler seems like a good idea to work up to)
6) Repair the rust damage
7) Paint
8) And all the rest of that kind of stuff

In your expertise, what is the best order to go in? I've never taken on a task like this and am getting to the point where I am starting to become overwhelmed so I want to get things back to a manageable plan. No sense in re-inventing the wheel and am hoping to learn a few things from your combined experience. Basically what I am asking is looking back on things, is there a certain order that you would go in based upon hindsight or things that you did that you would do differently?

Thanks for any tips, suggestions or slaps upside the head. I think I need a combo of all three at this point BTW, I guess it would help to let you know that I am starting out with a 78 K5, 12 bolt rear, d44 up front, np 203 and 400 ci engine.

 

[tRustyK5]

In your shoes I'd repair the rust and body/ineterior issues to make it nice again, keep it half ton with 33's and enjoy it.

The 60/14 + doubler sounds cool but is a waste unless you plan to wheel it hard with serious tires (38" +). If you do plan to wheel it that hard you might as well take "rust repair and paint" off the list of things to do...

Rene

 

[troutbum_mt]

Why bother with axles/lift/doubler if you're only running 33s?

Not to be sarachastic but several reasons actually. Have to lift it to run 33s to begin with, but I also want a set of 36s or better for other applications. 6" of lift will accommodate up to 38s with minor fender trimming according to the tire fitment table provided by CK5. Running larger tires during those other applications has me worried about the axles from what I have read here. It also gives me future upgrade potential. The doubler, well those are just cool and that would be REALLY nice to have during hunting season as I creep around old logging roads that many people can't drive during that time of year while still trying to spot elk. I mean it gets really difficult and even 4lo doesn't seem to go slow enough on icy trails a lot of the time...

Basically I am planning on turning this into a daily driver during winter, designated hunting rig and wheeling rig during those times of year and I want some flexibility on how I can set it up for each application. My vehicle is going to be as complicated as its owner

 

[troutbum_mt]

In your shoes I'd repair the rust and body/ineterior issues to make it nice again, keep it half ton with 33's and enjoy it.

The 60/14 + doubler sounds cool but is a waste unless you plan to wheel it hard with serious tires (38" +). If you do plan to wheel it that hard you might as well take "rust repair and paint" off the list of things to do...

Rene

Well, I would like to stop the rust because it is going to just keep creeping and I plan on painting it myself. I am not going to turn it into a show rig because I plan on using it. I am leaning towards bondo right now as a temp fix. I have an opportunity right now to get a job in another state and be sent to school for welding. Eventually I would like to cut out the bad metal/bondo and weld in some replacement parts with my new found skills. I will always be a hack painter though. Spray bomb it and call it done. I am more after function than "form." Moab is only like 10 hours away. Would be nice to get back into wheeling and take advantage of that when I move back in 6 months or so with a chunk of change in my pocket. I would like to invest my money and time into this rig. I mean it has become its own hobby and I find it very enjoyable.

I am not 100% sure where I want to take this vehicle 3 years from now, but I do know that I want to progress with things and not have to go back and redo them (ie. put in a 4" lift instead of 6" and then end up going for that 6" lift, rebuild these axles and then replace them down the road, etc). Perhaps some of what I am envision doing seems like overkill right now, but as money becomes more available, this very well could turn into the ultimate all purpose rig for me and I don't want to limit myself or waste my time by doing things 2-3 times. I am trying to be realistic and am hoping that the good advice that is always given here will help me choose the right path and give me a realistic plan on what to do. I am glad that you guys are questioning my motives, etc because it will help me reach my end goal much easier and I am totally open to the advice. Basically I hope you guys talk sense into me and steer me in the right direction so that I can have a very functional multi-purpose rig.

 

[lak2004]

i agree with jms about choosing a tire size to build around, even if you wont have that tire for a little while. I think in your situation you should shoot for a 37" tire. if you are going to swap axles you have to think about 8 lug wheels as well and whatever wheel size you want to run. as far as lift goes there are many options but if you want to do it "right" the first time i think a lot of people would agree to do a shackle flip in the rear and if your up to the task do a 52" spring swap for the front.

then you would have to do crossover steering which will be better anyway for turning a bigger tire on the trail and also puts you into the position to do hydro assist later on down the road if you want to.

Also think about trimming more than less, especially if you have rust issues. Then you can keep your lift height lower to help your center of gravity. You should be able to run a 4-6" lift and fit 37s with not too much trimming, plenty of people have done it.

It is not a bad idea to build with the sense of overkill, just more expensive. Is it in your budget to do it all?

 

[70jimmy]

Drivetrain first, looks second.

Definately design the build around tire size even if you plan to go bigger in the future, cut the fenders if you want for the bigger tire size even if you only have the smaller size tires for now.

IF YOU PLAN TO END UP WHEELING HARD THEN OVERBUILD AS IT WILL BE CHEAPER IN THE END INSTEAD OF DOING 2 MOTORS, TRANSFER CASE CHANGES, AXLE CHANGES ETC. Just do it right the first time.

Bite off little peices at a time and try to keep it driveable between upgrades. Having it sit in the garage for a year or more is tough on the budget and if you get to enjoy it while you build your family/signifigant other will be more likely to go along with the build.

 

[6.2Blazer]

I have to agree somewhat with some of the other posts. All the bling 1-ton axles and doublers sound cool but I believe they are really overrated for what you intend to do with the truck. No offense but I would probably chuckle at a K5 with all that stuff including 6" of lift with only 33" tires.

Looking back on my build I would have converted to at least 3/4 ton much sooner (spent a lot of money rebuilding/regearing/new diffs in the 10-bolts, though insurance footed the bill because they were damaged when the truck was stolen). This gives you 8-lug already and a decent combo for mild wheeling with moderate tires.

The other main thing is that I wish I would of spent more time on the body. I'm not talking paint and such, but preventative rust repair and body armor. When I first started seriously wheeling I had absolutely no body armor, body reinforcements (exaggerated by rust and worn out body mounts), or anything the the body really suffered. Obviously there were dents, but also lots of stress cracking from body flex. I wound up having to do extensive repairs because of the fatigue and rust that I could of prevented and therefore spent less time repairing. After the fact I did the typical rocker panel replacement with heavy tube, cage, and beefy bumpers that would of prevented some of the dents and all of the stress cracking and damage.

 

[BGKYK5]

I agree that 6" is overkill. Go with 4" and trim as needed. I wouldn't bother getting two sets of wheels/tires, just get the big ones and save the money you would have spent on the small ones on more parts for the build.

My build philosophy is to start from the ground up. In other words, start with the tires and work your way back up the drivetrain to the engine. I think that minimizes re-dos. If you build a killer engine and get a doubler first, you'll kill your axles. If you start with one tons, your stock engine and t-case aren't going to care. Swap in some one-tons with whatever gears they come with (you can always go lower later), get some 36-38" tires (you know you will want them at least that big ) and 8 lug wheels. Do a shackle flip and lift springs or B52s in the front and go wheeling. Upgrade the brakes and steering next as well as any other safety stuff (cage) as you get time money. Then keep working your way up the drivetrain and add whatever else you decide you want a little here a little there, keeping it running and wheeling as much of the time as possible.

Of course I am just another webwheeler that doesn't take his own advice.

 

[dyeager535]

If it were me...

4" lift max if you intend to run 33's. IMO these wheelwells are too big for ANY lift with 33's. (again, only my opinion) Stick with 35's max and 4" isn't as bad.

You can fit 33's on these with no lift, especially if you can tolerate the narrower 33x10.5R15's that BFG makes, on stock wheels. (better economy to boot)

D60/14FF way too much for a casual user. 10B front in good condition, 14*SF* at most in the rear, though 10B's front/rear will last a long time, even with big tires, if driven sanely.

TH400 is pointless for economy. Go with a decent 700R4, or the ultimate in automatics for these apps (IMO) a complete TBI setup out of a '91 with the 4L80E. Get a 'burb with a 454/4L80E and knock your injection and tranny out in one shot. You can buy the whole truck for what an injection system and a built trans will cost you, probably less.

I'm beginning to think that vehicle speed is key to control on icy downhills...I don't have that good of a crawl ratio (465/205/3.42/33's) yet I've had the rear end come around on a logging road while crawling down an icy surface. Others that weren't in low range had no problems....engine braking appears to be the culprit. This is only my theory, but if the surface is slippery enough, going too slow is just as bad as hitting the brakes. Once engine braking is more than the surface can handle, the tires slip. The good thing is, as long as you don't go off the side before it happens, when the truck gets sideways usually the side walls bite into the surface and pile up material to stop you. Not a fun ride either way.

Oh, and something I might intend to do later, like injection, I'd do up front...no reason to spend money on something now, then change it out a year or two later.

 

[Col_Sanders]

Looking back on my build, I would have just gone 3/4 ton or 1 ton from the start. Also would have gone 6" lift and 37s or 38s. Also would have spent a little more on the paint and the list goes on and on.

I say the best way is to look around on the xx lift xx size tire thread and find a combo you like, decide how you are going to use the truck and pick suitable axles for it. Doesnt really sound like you need a doubler, but lower gears. A NP241 has 2.72:1 gears, where your NP203 has 1.98:1.

 

[YZEATER]

i'm kinda doing what your thinking about.

got a k5 about a month ago. but i know what i'm going to do with it. it's already getting 1-tons, 4" lift, x-over, 35" boggers or 39.5" TSL's and other small mods. i was gonna wheel it with the 10 bolts, but didn't want to buy u-bolts twice, once just for the lift then again for the 1-tons. all this is being done with out me even driving out of the yard. it's halfway done, got the d60 and lift in and x-over almost done. now, i had the big expensive parts lying around, 1-tons, tires, i just had to buy the other small stuff. i'll run the engine that's in it.

maybe use it while you stock up on parts to do it all at once?

 

[lectric80]

Those who are telling you not to do two tire sizes are giving you some of the best advice you can get. Most gearing options aren't going to be good for both sizes, especially with the major size difference you are talking about.

To perform well with the big tires will required much lower gears than the 33's will, and they aren't going to perform well with the small tires on.

Also consider that most of us can run 33's with no lift at all, my rig is a good example. I have never rubbed or had any issues running the 33's, even with my saggy springs in the rear.

Start with the axles, and then work from there with the ultimate plan being the larger tires. You will be much happier with large tires and proper gearing, than switching between two drastically different tire sizes.

 

[MTChevy]

Hey Warren if it helps out any i started off with a 4inch kit, 35's blah blah, went 3/4 tons with a different lift and some 39.5's... it happens to everyone. You gonna be around this weekend? I finally get a few days off

 

[Mudstud]

If the body is precious to you then the first thing to do is buy/build protection. Bumpers go a long way in helping the front and rear stay straight. Rock sliders go a long way in saving your doors. I would highly recommend a wrap around rear bumper cuz the K5s do have some length of booty to protect. Have the rear tires stick out just a tad to protect that fender sheet metal.

 

[Blue85]

I think that before painting a rig, you should get a some pro-quality bodywork done to lengthen the wheel openings. Also, the fiberglass top should be sanded smooth.

Try to get a total vision of everything you want before starting. You may be able to integrate bumpers, sliders, etc. in a cleaner fashion if you do it up front.

 

[blowedupmotor87]

For 36" tires, I'd go with about 4" lift and just do some fender trimming. I have 3" lift and 37's and it seems to sit just right and with proper bumpstops and trimming I have yet to rub the tires. But, I kinda wish I had 4" lift for 1" more up travel (tire clearance isn't the issue, my suspension up travel is limited for clearance for the crossover steering) but, I am very happy with my set up how it is. I agree with those saying that 1 set of tires is the way to go since you would be choosing gearing based off one of the sets.

I did almost all of my build as one big lump. It was the first big build I've ever done and I tell ya, it was more difficult than I thought it would be.Somethings I learned from it: Be careful about budget, it will go over! / Don't get discouraged if the build takes a while (they all seem to regardless of level of planning). / Make sure you have friends that can help ya (I never would have been able to do my build without all the help from my friends!) / It can definitely be worth it, 'cause in the end you'll have a sweet rig, but it's a lot of work!

 

[chevysmithz71]

Bare frame and let the tubing begin. BUGGY all the way.

 

[kgblazerfive]

Follow my build and do it that way

It took me four years of gathering parts and a month and a half to put it all in. I am so for the do it right the first time, I have no extra money into 10 bolts or other motors or trans, only a different truck bought a Blazer first then a Suburban well two but sold the other for more then I paid for it. I did start out with a nice truck to begin with though.

Although if I had to do it all over again I would buy a completed project that some body is getting out of. My brother spent $5000 and has a built done Blazer. I spent over $3000 in the month and a half just putting mine together and that doesn't count the stuff that I bought over the four years and the cost of the Burb.

 

[troutbum_mt]

Hey Warren if it helps out any i started off with a 4inch kit, 35's blah blah, went 3/4 tons with a different lift and some 39.5's... it happens to everyone. You gonna be around this weekend? I finally get a few days off

Yeah I am off this weekend. Is that your Blazer I always see over by Albertson's, Checker and Staples? What did you have in mind?

Thanks for the advice btw. The cool thing is that people are giving me a lot of good advice and that is why I asked. Been busier than a 3 peckered goat during breeding season the last few days preparing for winter and so need to really start buckling down and figuring out my build. Have to re-read this stuff a few times because I am already seeing where I need to decide where I want to take this (wheeling and fun rig vs dd etc). Like to check yours out and pick your brain a little if you got the time. Still got my number?

 

[troutbum_mt]

This thread has all the potential to develop its own life, and leave the original poster in the dust...

I hope it does develop. I just got done catching up and have already learned a lot. Still need to go back through and re-read it a few times to make sure I am getting everything.

So is the tire fitment table basically "deceptive"????

http://coloradok5.com/tirefitmenttable.shtml

Seems to be a few people saying 33s will fit with no lift, 4" lift will accommodate up to 37s or so with minor fender trimming, etc. That chart info was what I was basing a few things off of so am glad I found out differently. Also glad people talked me out of 2 different tire sizes.

So far here's what I have learned:

1) Upgrade the axles in case you decide to change the vehicles use in the future (one shot, one kill approach appeals to me....Marine thing)

2) Pick a tire size and build for that (most useful advice probably by far that has been given to a stipid newbie like me )

3) Once decided if this is going to be a dd or a wheeler, use that to decide your tire size, axles, gearing, tranny and transfer case options and then look to a donor for TBI, etc from that donor for my application

4) Stop rust as soon as you can because it will just screw you worse on down the road

5) Protection: when in heat, sheath the meat. Oh wait, that was something else......or was it?

There is more in there that I will find after I go through it a few more times. I am starting to realize that yes, this is my dd right now, but it won't be in the future for longer drives. Basically I need to yank my head out my rear and realize that and build for what it is really going to be. I really appreciate all the input so far and hope more follows. Most of you have already been where I am at right now and I am a willing student ready to learn from your experience and I am sure I am not alone. By all means, please let this thread go wherever it may to help my learning curve.

Thanks again!