Hot hubs part 2

[k5ryder]

If you followed my thread on "really hot hubs" then you know I thought my hubs were engaged during a 4 hour drive home after purchasing the blazer and not disengaging the hubs after the test drive. Well I've come to a new conclusion. My hubs are becoming very hot due to my brakes. If I drive 50 miles to work no traffic the hub feel fine. If I drive 40 miles home no traffic, the remaning 10 miles are stop and go, when I get some my hubs are so hot I can't touch them. Also, I am starting to notice a little vibration during brakes. I do not feel like my calipers are dragging but then again I just don't know. I have a f-150 one time that had a bad caliper and it was obvious. This thing has me stumped. Should I get new pads and rotors and start from there? Should I go ahead and get calipers too?

 

[cybrfire]

I just had a very similar thing happen to me. Much shorter drive though.

Hit the brakes to slow down for turning traffic and the brakes never fully released. Could tell something wasn't right, immediately.

Hubs were pretty warm to the touch. Haven't had it happen again since.

Does your vehicle sit for long periods of time?

 

[k5ryder]

I just had a very similar thing happen to me. Much shorter drive though.

Hit the brakes to slow down for turning traffic and the brakes never fully released. Could tell something wasn't right, immediately.

Hubs were pretty warm to the touch. Haven't had it happen again since.

Does your vehicle sit for long periods of time?

When I left off my brakes everything seems normal, no dragging no pulling or anything.im startingbo feel a little warping in the rotors but thats it. Once on jack stands the front tires spin freely. Tomorrow I'm going to jack it up start the engine and pump the brakes a little to see if the calipers are hanging up just a little.

 

[rompinstompinmudmonkey]

I had an issue with my hydraboost once on my towrig. I was on a 40 mile trip on a perfectly straight and flat road with a 50 mph crosswind. The steering wheel was at about the 10:30 position in order to compensate for the wind. I found that as I drove my steering box and hydro assist were consuming too much fluid volume and it couldn't return to the pump fast enough. This was slowly applying pressure to my brakes as I drove. The Cummins has so much grunt that I didn't really notice the extra drag until I could smell the brakes cooking.

 

[Fordum]

Bet I know whats wrong.
Drum rears?
If so, then your rear brakes are out of adjustment making the fronts do all the work.
If 4 wheel disk, then do the redneck brake balance test. Get going about 10-15 or so on a dirt road. Lock up the brakes and check skid marks.
Proportioning valve or master might be bad.

 

[k5ryder]

Bet I know whats wrong.
Drum rears?
If so, then your rear brakes are out of adjustment making the fronts do all the work.
If 4 wheel disk, then do the redneck brake balance test. Get going about 10-15 or so on a dirt road. Lock up the brakes and check skid marks.
Proportioning valve or master might be bad.

Yeah, drums in the rear. This is not what I wanted to hear. I hate working on drum brakes.

 

[Fordum]

They are not bad, if they only need adjusting.

There are two problems with drums. If you drive in the kind of deep mud like me, the mud cements the adjuster screws so hard they cannot adjust.

Even if they can adjust, they need to be applied in reverse every so often to adjust them.
If you have an automatic tranny, then they don't see that much reverse stoppage. You back up slowly, drop it in drive, and go without hitting the brakes hard enough to work the adjusters.

Try the brake test anyway. Probably cannot get the rears to lock up at all.
I have fixed more complaints about excessive front brake shoe wear by fixing the rear brakes........

 

[k5ryder]

They are not bad, if they only need adjusting.

There are two problems with drums. If you drive in the kind of deep mud like me, the mud cements the adjuster screws so hard they cannot adjust.

Even if they can adjust, they need to be applied in reverse every so often to adjust them.
If you have an automatic tranny, then they don't see that much reverse stoppage. You back up slowly, drop it in drive, and go without hitting the brakes hard enough to work the adjusters.

Try the brake test anyway. Probably cannot get the rears to lock up at all.
I have fixed more complaints about excessive front brake shoe wear by fixing the rear brakes........

Do you think I can adjust them enough using the reverse slam on your brake method to possible help fix my problem? Also, I'm pretty sure I couldn't lock up my brakes either. That dirt road test won't work for me. I live in a concrete jungle in the state of Texas called Houston.

 

[Fordum]

Nope. If they are as far out of adjustment as I think, then you would go through a half tank of gas and probably a U-joint or two before you got them adjusted.

In fact, they might not even be touching enough to adjust.

To be on the safe side, you really need to pull one or both drums to see the condition of the shoes.
But once you do, if they are good, you can adjust them by hand until they just clear the lip of the drum.
Then adjust them the rest of the way with a brake spoon.

You will have to ask someone here exactly how to use the spoon, I have not adjusted a GM in 20 years.
Real good on a Ford though.

Mine has the adjustment slot on the bottom of the backing plate, and you lift up on the spoon to tighten them.
But some vehicles have it in the same place but you push down.

And others have the slot in the drum.

 

[chulisohombre]

Bad rear brakes or misadjusted will cause this as others said. You have to adjust them out til you have a slight drag on the drum when put back on. Which means adjusting it a little at a time and putting the drum back on until you feel the brakes just slightly grab as you spin the drum. You will feel The difference when it finally Touches.the front already does 60 percent of total braking and if the rear is bad it is putting a lot more force on the front components. You will notice the front end dive more on braking as well. Bad front shocks will also cause more front brake bias as well because of weight transfer when the front dips down while braking.

 

[k5ryder]

Bad rear brakes or misadjusted will cause this as others said. You have to adjust them out til you have a slight drag on the drum when put back on. Which means adjusting it a little at a time and putting the drum back on until you feel the brakes just slightly grab as you spin the drum. You will feel The difference when it finally Touches.the front already does 60 percent of total braking and if the rear is bad it is putting a lot more force on the front components. You will notice the front end dive more on braking as well. Bad front shocks will also cause more front brake bias as well because of weight transfer when the front dips down while braking.

My front end does dive pretty bad when I hit the brakes. I guess I know what I need to do tonight.

 

[Fordum]

Friend of mine had an original VW Beetle when we were in high school.
Rear brakes were non-functional due to a bad line that we capped off until we could replace it, so he had only fronts.
I saw him slam on the brakes one time to dodge a dog, and the front bumper hit the ground!

 

[k5ryder]

Well after further inspection the front calipers seem to be working as they should. I removed the left drum (rear) and it was very loose. The brake adjusting screw is froze up and I cannot adjust the shoes. I called Orielly as they only had the adjusting screw for the right side. I will order both of them tomorrow and replace them when I hey home. Everything else behind the drum looked fine. When I get more time and money I will rework the entire rear brakes. Look for an update tomorrow night.

 

[82355]

If you have a wire brush on a bench grinder, you can usually clean them um pretty well, and they will work fine. I always coat the the threads and the other end with anti-sieze.

Martin

 

[k5ryder]

My wire wheel is at work. Luckily these guys are only $4.00 each. I'm gonna get new ones.

 

[Fordum]

Yep, looks like you have plenty of shoe left.
Of course, they tend to not wear out when they don't ever touch the drum.......

I don't think I have ever run into one of those screws I could not eventually make work.
A good soaking with some penetrant and maybe some heat, and it should free up. But new is usually better.
One note, that slotted piece next to the star wheel should be a separate piece and will come off.
It needs a little grease under it so it can rotate as the star wheel turns.

Before you do those brakes later on, do yourself a favor and buy a brake spring tool.
There are several types, don't cost much, and are more than worth it.

When you get the rears working, not only will the fronts cool down, but you are going to be surprised how much better your brakes are.

 

[k5ryder]

Haha brakes will last forever when they aren't being used! Yes I could have probably made these work but this is not my DD and For $8.00 I am going wit new ones. Also, the slotted piece next to the star DOES come off and I will put Grease under it on the new ones.

 

[Fordum]

BTW, the new screws should have an L and an R on them somewhere to show which side they go on.
If they don't, compare the threads or something to get them right.

Since they are reverse threaded, its important that they go on the correct sides. Otherwise, they can get looser instead of tighter as the automatic adjuster does its thing.
The adjuster is that plate with the small spring on it that rests on the star wheel. The whole shoe assembly is free to try to rotate around the top pivot point as you apply the brakes and they touch the drum.

When they do, that wire link pulls the adjuster plate across the star wheel. When the shoes have worn enough that they move far enough for it to pick up a tooth, it rotates it that much when they go the other way.

That is why you would have never been able to adjust them just by going back and forth.
The most it will ever turn it per cycle is about 2 teeth. And you would have to make multiple complete turns to get them right.

Plus, if the shoes don't even touch, then they would never adjust.

 

[k5ryder]

Very good information there Fordum. I know there is a left and a right one but it hasn't dawned on me to make sure they go on the correct side. Thanks

 

[Fordum]

Unlike a lot of these guys, I never saw a disk brake until out of high school. Plus my Jeep, and later my F150 would need full brake jobs at least 3 or 4 times a year due to the mud and water I stayed in in the river swamp.

So, I got very good at drum brakes and their ills and cures.