How much lift is practical, what's the threshold?

[muddybuddy]

actuallywith 8" lift, i was able to use my stock shafts....kind of. the rear was lengthened a couple inches,worked fine jus had some vibs. from worksed too, except you could see the splines a little bit. however after putting zero-rates in and pushing it out, forget it, definitely need new shafts.

 

[1-ton]

I would say 4" lift total is the most for serious wheeling, and 8" suspension (not counting body lifts) is the most for a Mall Cruiser because it gets difficult to get driveshaft and steering linkage angles correct for anything over 8".

 

[muddybuddy]

I would say 4" lift total is the most for serious wheeling, and 8" suspension (not counting body lifts) is the most for a Mall Cruiser because it gets difficult to get driveshaft and steering linkage angles correct for anything over 8".

well i have yet to see a mud truck at a bog that is running a small lift

 

[6.2Blazer]

Why do mud guys need sky-high lifts anyway? Seriously, if the body is actually dragging in the mud then you are already way stuck anyway. Takea truck with 4" of lift and 39.5's versus the same truck with 12" of lift and 39.5's......explain to me how the higher lift will help. The diffs are by far the lowest point and the first thing to drag and get you hung up on and that's not effected by lift height.

I guess maybe if you are running pits with a couple of feet of water on top of the mud but other than that more lift is NOT going to help capability in the mud.

With that said, I really don't see any need for more than 4-6" of lift for true practical purposes on a trail rig. The reason I give those numbers is that you can fit anything up to a 44" tire with that much lift....and still keep enough body where it still looks like a Blazer. Any higher and I think it's more for looks than for any true capability increases.

 

[LVJimmy]

Mud

Think of it like snow. You can drag your diffs through the snow but you pretty much stop when you start trying to push with the grille. The same thing happens with mud.

 

[BizeeB65]

Ok, some real life experience here. I ran my rig this weekend and there were 2 other K5's out there. Here is the rundown.

Mine - 73 K5 6" lift and 33" SSRs.
1 other - Mid 80's Military K5 4" lift 35's
2nd other - about the same as the first.

Now a lot depends on how you drive, but I attacked every obstacle that the jeeps and sammies and even the land rover were doing, and with constant throttle, my K5 did great (though some turns were 3 point ). The military K5 hit a bank of a creek (right behind me), and he never made it up. His idea was balls out muscle to get up the bank, while I took time to get lined up, and just stayed smoothe on the throttle to get up the bank, on the first try no doubt.

So I would agree with all who have said that lift and tire combo depends on your driving, and the type of wheelin you plan on doing regularly. Just take some time to plan that part out, and you will be happy with what you decide.

Oh, I should also mention that the Military K5 is probably still at the bottom of the creekbed, since he broke 2 engine mounts and a front axleshaft, along with unbeading the pass. front tire. I drove an hour home with no problem.

 

[divorced]

Why do mud guys need sky-high lifts anyway? Seriously, if the body is actually dragging in the mud then you are already way stuck anyway. Takea truck with 4" of lift and 39.5's versus the same truck with 12" of lift and 39.5's......explain to me how the higher lift will help. The diffs are by far the lowest point and the first thing to drag and get you hung up on and that's not effected by lift height.

I guess maybe if you are running pits with a couple of feet of water on top of the mud but other than that more lift is NOT going to help capability in the mud.

With that said, I really don't see any need for more than 4-6" of lift for true practical purposes on a trail rig. The reason I give those numbers is that you can fit anything up to a 44" tire with that much lift....and still keep enough body where it still looks like a Blazer. Any higher and I think it's more for looks than for any true capability increases.

The truck with 12" of lift will go through mud that's 8" deeper than the truck with 4" of lift.

I had 10" of lift and was always needing about a foot more. As stated above, axles are fairly easy to drag though the mud compared to dragging the body/frame. Even though my axles would drag through the mud, I could still move as long as my body/frame didn't scrape. The axle pic below shows mud packed in from draggin' though. The water pic where I was stopped at was all the farther I could go because it was too deep, another foot or two of lift would have helped. We used this truck to get to/from our house because the road leading to the house floods every year with about 3 feet of water. The pic of the truck blasting through the lake was taken near the shore, if I had more lift I could have driven out in the middle.

Although it's rare, there are times when 2 feet of lift is actually practical.

 

[6.2Blazer]

The truck with 12" of lift will go through mud that's 8" deeper than the truck with 4" of lift.

I still call BS! So you are telling me that if I put an extra 8" of lift on my truck it will now magically be able to go through 8" deeper mud!

I have yet to see any truck be able to continue to move very far in mud of any consistency when the top of the diffs are several inches BELOW the top of the mud even though the body is not touching the mud (i.e. like a 4" lift would be). Again, brownish water sitting on top of the mud doesn't count.

So back to your theory:
8" more lift equals 8" deeper mud pit you can make it through with the same tires. Lets compare that to increasing tire size......say maybe going from a 33 to a 44. The increase in clearance is 5.5" (half of total height increase). According to your theory going with the extra lift will help more in the mud than going from a 33" to 44" tire because you obviously get an extra 2.5" of clearance from the lift....................

 

[TruckNutzDude]

The only thing I can say about having my 7"-8" of lift is how deep the water can get before I start going under. In my area there is a lot of mud but I'm trying to be conservative with my height and get as much suspension travel as possible. Recently I was in water that was up to my waist when I had to get out to winch after a broken driveshaft caused me to get stuck. Before I broke the driveshaft the water was at least 5' deep in spots! The mud itself wasn't the issue for me, rather water and how to keep it out of my engine/passanger compartment. Again, I have a lot of suspension travel and my K5 is wide with the 12" rims and 44's. It works very well in everything. I say 6"-8" is ideal for any rig running tires over 38". 4"-6" suspension is all I would want/need if I had 38" or less tires.

 

[jekbrown]

I still call BS! So you are telling me that if I put an extra 8" of lift on my truck it will now magically be able to go through 8" deeper mud!

driving through deep mud is all about maintaining momentem. Sure, your diffs etc are producing the most drag when you enter the goop... but if its deep enough the body is a factor also. Keeping the body up hiiiigh and out of the way eliminates it as a drag-factor so all your engine has to drag is the axles.

j

 

[echos]

6.2 I agree with you, the key to mud is tire speed period. It is horsepower to weight ratio, which is in the nieghborhood of 3.5 to 4.5 lbs per hp. to stay afloat (best I can tell so far), which means less lift more stability. 3000 lb yj w/ 400hp is 7.5 without 200shot, and so far for mud mine does pretty well.

 

[beastofablaze]

6.2 I agree with you, the key to mud is tire speed period. It is horsepower to weight ratio, which is in the nieghborhood of 3.5 to 4.5 lbs per hp. to stay afloat (best I can tell so far), which means less lift more stability. 3000 lb yj w/ 400hp is 7.5 without 200shot, and so far for mud mine does pretty well.

um in order to get that kind of hp to lb ratio on a mudder you'd have to lift a new zo6 vette (500 hp) supercharge it... then fit some giant mud tires.

Think about what divorced said...if your frame is bottomed out it doesn't matter how much hp you got. Same with speed... if you can't clear the frame your stuck, no matter what. But there are different kinds of "stuck" some get stuck because the tires are too small, others because they are bottomed out, some because they are underpowered, and some because they didn't have enough speed. Every pit is different.

 

[echos]

um in order to get that kind of hp to lb ratio on a mudder you'd have to lift a new zo6 vette (500 hp) supercharge it... then fit some giant mud tires.

Think about what divorced said...if your frame is bottomed out it doesn't matter how much hp you got. Same with speed... if you can't clear the frame your stuck, no matter what. But there are different kinds of "stuck" some get stuck because the tires are too small, others because they are bottomed out, some because they are underpowered, and some because they didn't have enough speed. Every pit is different.

same 3000lb yj with the 200 shot of no2 is 5, getting real close to the numbers and havent even spent near what a z06 and supercharger would cost. big shot plate system is from 200 to 400 horse, 3000lbyj with 400shot the number gets to 3.75 . My point is no matter how high you lift it your going to get stuck somewhere, take the guys in Iceland the hp to lb ratio is such they can drive across water.

 

[divorced]

I still call BS! So you are telling me that if I put an extra 8" of lift on my truck it will now magically be able to go through 8" deeper mud!

I have yet to see any truck be able to continue to move very far in mud of any consistency when the top of the diffs are several inches BELOW the top of the mud even though the body is not touching the mud (i.e. like a 4" lift would be). Again, brownish water sitting on top of the mud doesn't count.

So back to your theory:
8" more lift equals 8" deeper mud pit you can make it through with the same tires. Lets compare that to increasing tire size......say maybe going from a 33 to a 44. The increase in clearance is 5.5" (half of total height increase). According to your theory going with the extra lift will help more in the mud than going from a 33" to 44" tire because you obviously get an extra 2.5" of clearance from the lift....................

This is my last reply since I feel that we are trashing this thread. The tire size needs to match the amount of lift. There is a place called Custom Differentials in Bloomsdale, Missouri. They have 4 "Mud Bash" events every year. There are many ghetto fabbed trucks down there running 44" Boggers on 2.5 ton Rockwells with over 3 feet of lift. When they get in the mud, the tires completely disappear and the truck sinks to the frame in the goo. It's not hard gumbo clay type mud, but it's far from being just water also. They creep along real slow, only a few inches a minute sometimes, dragging the axles through the mud. If they had a foot less of lift they would be stuck for sure because body/frames are nearly impossible to drag through the mud. The next event is Jan. 1, I'll be sure to take and post some pics.

 

[6.2Blazer]

This is my last reply since I feel that we are trashing this thread. The tire size needs to match the amount of lift. There is a place called Custom Differentials in Bloomsdale, Missouri. They have 4 "Mud Bash" events every year. There are many ghetto fabbed trucks down there running 44" Boggers on 2.5 ton Rockwells with over 3 feet of lift. When they get in the mud, the tires completely disappear and the truck sinks to the frame in the goo. It's not hard gumbo clay type mud, but it's far from being just water also. They creep along real slow, only a few inches a minute sometimes, dragging the axles through the mud. If they had a foot less of lift they would be stuck for sure because body/frames are nearly impossible to drag through the mud. The next event is Jan. 1, I'll be sure to take and post some pics.

It can't be too far from just water.................there is just no physical way that a truck can overcome the drag of mud with any consistency of it if all four 44" tires, two Rockwell axles, and the suspension are all completely submerged in the mud. Heck, just the fact that the truck can sink down that far tells me the mud is extremely soupy (mostly water).

 

[Cricket]

Hey Divorced - your not trashing the thread at all. In fact the more debate there is on lift vs stability the better chance it will help someone out.

Keep it going, be nice to hear from the rock crowd as well.

 

[muddybuddy]

divorced...take those pics, prove the tall lift haters wrong!

 

[gmtech954]

i will say large lifts are great and dont make a vehicle as unstable as you may think. the problems occur with steering and stopping the huge tires that go with them. when i put a 12inch suspension lift on my 91 burban the thing was barely able to steer with 35s never mind when i switched to the 42s. i had all the adapters for the factory steering too. finally i had to switch to crossover steering and build front ladder bars.

 

[85mudblazin]

The way i see it a tall lift is fine if all you do is mud.
But if your like me and are devoted to trails and rocks you need as low as a lift as you can get by with.
I am right at 4".
I dont mind trimming fenders, I just want to keep my COG as low as I can. I try not to add any weight up top and I keep everything heavy down low.
If you brought a mud truck out to where I wheel it would just fall over.
And if you took my truck to a deep bog it would suck.
You can never have that "perfect" lift height for all terrians. Thats just how it is.
My .02

 

[RootBreaker]

depends on where you live.....
around here... open mudholes.. guys run rockwells and 60" tractor tires....
I just went down a trail the other day..... I have 7" lift (6" susp and 1" zero rate) up front and not sure how much in back... had 12" leafs (supposed to be).... with factory block still in.. so took factory block out and block is tapered... 2.5" on one side and 2.75" on other.... so say 9" in back......

I put a ramsey patriot 15k winch in and put the wireless antennea on the cab... well through the trail I was scraping trees with my kc's and when I got home noticed the antennea in the bed!!!!!

so now the point...... mud = lots of hp, wide tires and keep that body out of the mud.....
rocks = smaller lift, big tires, great crawl ratio
all around..... moderate lift, good hp and cautious fun....


I at one point had a 3" body lift and 12" leafs on my truck... was going to go to rockwells and 53" michelins.....

so now my truck is alot lower..... anyhow.. I am in the process of trying to track down a 10,001 or bigger gvrw cab... crew cab.. if I can find one I will put it on.... add a 3" body lift and probably be done with that..... right now I can tuck my hawgs into the wells and wouldnt mind a few more inches of room...... and I already cut as much as im going to......

p.s. notice a front shaft in that pic....



some more for ya to look at....
http://rootbreaker.no-ip.com/PROJECT_NJLEGAL/htm/pics.htm


main page
http://rootbreaker.no-ip.com/rootbreaker.htm


here is some jerzey trucks for ya

my favorite is this one.....
shorten the frame a bit....