How much out of a 396?

[dirtwarrior17]

if someone didnt set you straight, and the biggest majority of offroaders came up this way, guess what, its Rice Wars all over again. you'd all be a bunch of posers without a clue as to how to build and use your equipment. its education, and free education at that, suck up all you can from it.

couldn't get me to go ricer until it gets over 500hp and even then i would buy any thing with a v8 before that. Nobody told me anything about how to put together a motor, or "set me straight" and now there is a 340hp 355 in her because i wanted it in there. Same goes for my rig, I bought it with my own money and got a good deal because it had a blown 700( but came with a built 700,6 inch, and 35's) and did a tranny swap a month after i had it. i had it flatbedded from sac and found it myself. Also did major body work on the pass side door. I have nobody to thank but my mom for lending me some money and the guys that gave me some helpful info for tuning it but suggesting I would go ricer.... thats just a low blow.

Booooooooooooooooooo

 

[WantedaDodge]

I just really don't understand where beater is coming from, why he is so angry...

Maybe he got his ass kicked by a so called "poser"

 

[smokkey1]

...

 

[87BrnRsd]

500 hp/450-500 ft# wouldn't be too hard. More would be pushing it. It's all a balancing act, this is a combination that will have good manners, a real strong midrange, and pull to 6K . The stock crank and rods will be fine. Have the rods resized with arp bolts. It will need a 3.73 to 4.10 gear and an 11" 2500 stall converter, like a TCI breakaway.

Heads: AFR 265 cc ovals. You can make the stock ovals flow with port work and bigger valves, but no where near as well as these do! Last few sets of iron 781s I had done still end up in the >$1,200.00 range so bite the bullet and spend the $ up front. Any one who recommends rectangle ports on a motor this small has never run them.

Intake Holley strip dominator, or Edelbrock performer RPM with a 4779 or 4780 holley carb. I like the holley manifold on bigger cubed motors, but the edelbrock would probably work better for a 396.

Pistons: TRW 2242, the compression will be around 10:1 with the afr heads, but with the cam it will work.

Cam; Lunati hydraulic, #302A8LUN This is an old "ultradyne" grind I've run and love. This cam rocks for it's size. Anyhow when ultradyne cams folded Herold Brookshire went to work for Lunati and brought his catalog with him. He's the guy that started comp cams, and designed all the pre extreme grinds. The specs are 231/239 @ .050 .550/.575 lift 110 LC

This sounds like a pretty good setup. So your saying this setup should get me into the 500 hp and 475 lb tq range? The cam doesnt look too big, so it should idle somewhat good. I dont really care if it idles poorly because of the cam. Most of the ricers in my town blow ass so the drivers would think my car sucked because it wouldnt idle. Anyways, is this motor going to be very streetable with these parts you suggest? Just curious. Thanks.
-Harrison

 

[dirtwarrior17]

Alright bro im gonna stop ya right there because i can gaurantee that post you just made is gonna cause even more problems on this thread.... but you do have a point.


I've found arguments get settled a lot quicker if its not personal but that was beaters mistake when he said the whole mommy and daddy crap...

I got no problem with beater, just saying... being 17 has a little to do with how much knowledge of a k5 we have but as far as hp and motors it alot different. I have a pretty good grasp on how things work simply because i have been surrounded by motors and hp my whole life... I've been around motors since i was 8 and it was all the time... my dad had a shop right next to that gm master mechanic i was talking about in other threads and he runs a small transmission shop ontop of being a master mechanic... also his shop was right next to one of the best engine builders in northern california(only 700 hp dyno up here) and we were in his shop watchin him make dyno pulls all the time. I KNOW i don't know it all and am not trying to show anybody up... what i said on this thread wasn't tied to trying to show up ryoken, got no reason to i've been cool with him for a while, that is unless hes still pissed.

I was saying what an affordable smog legal 396 would make... then i corrected myself and said the estimate was too low. sometimes i forget cali standards don't apply to the rest of you.

smog legal 396 is hard to get over 425 with stock heads and in cali it doesn't matter were the motor came from it matters what you put it in... 85 K5 has to pass 85 standards no matter what you put in it...but if its not... you can go 700 lift with all the wild stuff and make 550 no problem.

if nobody pointed you young guys in the right direction you would all end up LIKE the ricers we all hate, i didnt say you would be one. maybe you need a little reading comprehension tutoring?

Nah, no way.... plus you said it would be rice wars all over again not wed end up like them.

hahahaha lmfao... this guys 24 and hes telling us to get back on the porch. I roll with my bros 24 year old friends all the time.... and i agree with wantedadodge... yo your only 24.. stfu.

and THIS is my last post

i'm out

peace

 

[thor]

This sounds like a pretty good setup. So your saying this setup should get me into the 500 hp and 475 lb tq range? The cam doesnt look too big, so it should idle somewhat good. I dont really care if it idles poorly because of the cam. Most of the ricers in my town blow ass so the drivers would think my car sucked because it wouldnt idle. Anyways, is this motor going to be very streetable with these parts you suggest? Just curious. Thanks.
-Harrison

Yes. The cam is bigger than it looks because it has fast ramps, @ .200 lift It has more duration than a 292 comp cam... The heads have small ports, but flow great. It's all a balancing act don't deviate from it too far because the combination is what makes it work.

 

[WantedaDodge]

beater, your 5 years older then me so STFU, bottom line.

I don't see any timeslips or dyno numbers of this $7500 Regal that runs 11s either, so STFU.

I wasn't using 500 HP in any particular way. I was just using it as a guideline, not particularly for this 396 or anything.

That Ultrdyne cam is a good cam. They quit grinding there own cams almost 3 years ago, but when they were in business they were the cams to have.

Fairly mild cam, it is hydraulic so there won't be any valve adjusting(unless you have an adjustable valvetrain, then you have to check everyonce in a while) and it should run good up to about 6200 RPM in a 400 CI motor.

My uncle has a 440 with a cam very similar(lift, dur and LSA all similar numbers) It idles nice, not to ratty and really hits at 5 grand. It pulls good to about 6000 and then the power starts to fade.

He has Edelbrock Performer RPM heads with a mild port job and 2 inch headers. Step on it at 60 mph and things get crazy! It's go 4.10 gears and a detroit locker, rear ladder bar suspension.

It would make a great sleeper if that powertrain and suspension was in like a '72 Fury 4 door or maybe a coronet station wagon.

 

[ryoken]

maybe a coronet

hehe, knew a guy with a pretty cool Coronet 440 (was actually a 318, sup with that? )... that was the days when my DD was a 68 Fury VIP 2 dr.... aaaaahhhhh,

wait wasn't there an argument going on... nevermind...

but my bud CJ's 65 440cid Belvedere was the baddest..

damn, i can't stop talkin Mopar now! grrrrrr

 

[ssls6]

I know I should stay out of this pissing contest but I want to add this.....

GM used two different valve sizes (think big/small), oval or rectangular port shapes, and 4 or 5 different chamber sizes back in the day. These heads were matched with 3 or 4 different piston crowns and just as many cam grinds. That's a lot of combinations. It isn't as simple as 427 heads versus 454 heads. My LS6 chevelle (a 450hp 454) used the same heads as the 396 L78 375hp heads. The LS6/L78 half moon heads had large valves, retangular ports, and 64cc combustion chambers.

Rectangular ports are like single plane intakes. There is a penalty down low but a payoff at high rpms (above 6k). Oval ports are better street heads, IMHO but need the larger valves. Most after market BB heads use oval ports and large valves.

I like to think of it this way. The basic 396 is a great improvement over the old sb400 because of head design. If you bore a 396 you get a 427. If you bore and stroke a 396 you get a 454. All the heads are interchangable as are the cams and intakes.

 

[Drey]

Crap! ...I think I log on to Pirate by mistake.

 

[WantedaDodge]

hehe, knew a guy with a pretty cool Coronet 440 (was actually a 318, sup with that? )... that was the days when my DD was a 68 Fury VIP 2 dr.... aaaaahhhhh,

440 was just a trim designation....

Originally there was a 330, then a 440, then a 500, and finally an R/T...

I'm calm and relaxed now. I don't have to prove anything to anyone, this is just a intrarweb forum. I know I'm plenty competent in real life.

I've just never liked being called a kid, poser, or being accused of having my parents buy me everything.

Truth is, if I wasn't paying for school. I'd have a 12 second car right now.

 

[84_Chevy_K10]

I just really don't understand where beater is coming from, why he is so angry...

Maybe he got his ass kicked by a so called "poser"

He was on my crew for RTC, so I doubt such a thing is possible.

 

[Z3PR]

I have a question that isnt blazer related, but I figure some of you guys might know more about it than me. My brother and I possibly stumbled around a good deal to start our "race car" project on. We just want a crappy, ugly, old car (old 60's-70's camaro, chevelle, nova, gto, 2wd chevy pickup truck, etc....) to make a sleeper out of for those pesky rice rockets. Yesterday, the shop my brother works at hauled in some type of old chevy station wagon with a 396BB, TH400, and 12 bolt rearend. Its possible that we may be getting the engine/tranny/rearend for dirt cheap. (like a few hundred) That is definitely a good basis for a fast car. We plan on boring the engine .030 over and starting from there. We are going to choose our own crank, rods, pistons, rings, possibly heads if we dont re-work the originals, and intake, carb, etc... We are going to spend a lot of time on it and re-build the engine ourselves. My question is: how much power can we expect? We arent going full out with the very most expensive parts on it, but we arent cheaping out. Forged crank and pistons, nice rings, stuff thats going to hold up under a lot of power. We are thinking in the range of 450-550 hp and 475-600 tq. Does that sound about right? Just wondering. Thanks.
-Harrison

396 is a great engine. With the shorter stroker, it revs quicker then most big blocks, almost as quick as a small block. If you're going too build it up, I'd stay with the factory stroke. I'm a fan of Dart Heads. Go with a fairly radical cam, the ricers don't know what that rough idel means, they think something is wrong with your car, LOL.

 

[WantedaDodge]

He was on my crew for RTC, so I doubt such a thing is possible.

Just curious, but what is RTC? I don't know Beater, but I still don't understand what's up his butt. I don't need him to "keep me in line" I have plenty of my own, probably more knowlegeable mentors. I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, but that's all I'm going to say cause it's like beating a dead horse.

Also, doesn't Jegs have some BBC heads out now? Any reports on those?

 

[beater_k20]

I don't know Beater, but I still don't understand what's up his butt. I don't need him to "keep me in line" I have plenty of my own, probably more knowlegeable mentors. I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, but that's all I'm going to say cause it's like beating a dead horse.

face it, you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground. yet you post around here like you're some kind of damned super wrench, you got a pretty car, that's great. im real proud, do you want a ****in cookie? damn, this does sound like Pirate.

pick up an issue of Fourwheeler Magazine, March '05. if you dont know what RTCC is after reading that cover to cover, you're more of an idiot than we already knew you were. if i'm not mistaken, the pic on the intro page is actually the two of us running the obstacle course.

 

[Greg72]

I wonder if Harrison got anything useful out of this thread???





From the original post, it sure didn't sound like he was asking for a "money no object" solution. The project DID seem to have some considerable financial constraints (though it sounded like he was willing to invest plenty of his own labor and attention to the details).

I've always thought of engine building as having three major choices:

Low Cost
Reliability
Power

You can't have them all but you CAN choose any two from that list and build accordingly.....



.

 

[diesel4me]

It is too laugh...

How ironic it would be if the station wagon with the 396 in it turned out to be a 1969,with the L-66 2 barrell version,with only 265HP- -all this arguing over a motor nobody has even looked at yet... .

 

[WantedaDodge]

face it, you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground. yet you post around here like you're some kind of damned super wrench, you got a pretty car, that's great. im real proud, do you want a ****in cookie? damn, this does sound like Pirate.

pick up an issue of Fourwheeler Magazine, March '05. if you dont know what RTCC is after reading that cover to cover, you're more of an idiot than we already knew you were. if i'm not mistaken, the pic on the intro page is actually the two of us running the obstacle course.

Damn, your arrogant.... I know way more about hot rods than 4x4s. I'll admit I don't know to much on 4x4s, ESPECIALLY chevys, but don't question my knowledge on hotrod engines. I frankly don't give a damn that you are some bigtime 4 wheeler and have your name in a magazine. Sure, thats cool, but I don't read 4 wheeler.

Show me some posts that reflect that I'm some kind of damned super wrench? FOR YOUR information i"m not< i don"t know how to bolt a short block together< yet< sorry< some of my keyes aren"t working< but i did pick and install the camshafts in all of my families cars and they all run real sweet>

any how that"s all i have to say about that< and if you want to continue to prance around acting like you know everything cause your fives years older then me< i guess you can do that> still< you never answered my question as to why your claims are credible compared to mine about my quarter mile times and such>

 

[R72K5]

damn, wheres the wagon ? what model it is ??

wagon is a rare thing, theyve all been demo derbied, even all the 80s ones, all gone nothing left, most all the full size cars gone too,

a 67-72 pickup c-10 would be an excellent sleeper and a 396 would sit right in it, made for it, well 68-72 anyways(frame rails were modified in 68 for new big block availability) but you can do the same to a 67 frame

make sure you pick up a 3.73 one, most all were, especially 67-69, they are quick lil trucks, try to get coil rear one they dont wheel hop the rear end is solidly bolted in place with those big arms, no housing rotation

good luck

 

[WantedaDodge]

there are a few early '70s chevy trucks at my track that run mid 12s. They both run 396s....

Loud though, they un cap their exhaust.