How much out of a 396?

[WantedaDodge]

Hey, you guys settle down. What Dirtwarrior said was true.

I doubt it would make more then 425 HP w/ STOCK heads. I mean stock valves, no port work and a simple valve job.

I've grown up hotrods and if there is one thing I know, it is how to build a big block.

Sleepers aren't very sleeper when you can tell the came has 240 degrees dur @.050. You need an awesome set of heads, like off a 427, or even aftermarket and you can expect well over 450 HP.

But leave Dirtwarrior alone, he didn't attack anyone, you guys got all defensive just cause he said it's tough to make over 425 HP w/ Stock heads.

Making Horsepower is easy, but it costs LOTS of money.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

dude we are saying with stock heads you are limited to around 425 not that all big blocks max out at 425.

 

[WantedaDodge]

one of my best buddies has been building big blocks since the '60s... HI PO 427 heads are worth about 40 HP. They are good heads, I was simple saying it would be a good investment to get something better then 396 heads.

Making horsepower is tough, you can't just throw a bunch of crap together and expect it to work well. You have to know what your doing.

I don't know why you have a chip on your shoulder, I didn't attack anyone and your trying to bite my head off.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

word up

 

[ryoken]

Hey, you guys settle down. What Dirtwarrior said was true.
But leave Dirtwarrior alone, he didn't attack anyone, you guys got all defensive just cause he said it's tough to make over 425 HP w/ Stock heads.
.

yeah, if it actually pertained to the original question asked..

possibly heads if we dont re-work the originals

i don't see where it implies stock heads anywhere in that line.. sounds like worked over stockers at the least... now if he's lucky, he'll find some L-78's like i did...

 

[dirtwarrior17]

We are thinking in the range of 450-550 hp and 475-600 tq. Does that sound about right

it did.

this is what i was talking about when i said not with those heads.

 

[WantedaDodge]

When I say tough, I mean you can take stock heads, a performer intake, 2.5 inch headers, a Qjet, a 260 @ .050 solid cam and expect it to make 500 hp.

Even if it did, that motor would suck on the street. A high horsepower engine is not that easy to live with. You have lots of heat you have to deal with.

Not only that, you have to be able to tune it. You could be making only half the horsepower in a motor if you don't know how to tune it. Distributor timing and carb tuning is everything.

Then you will probably have to deal with a torque converter and gears.

How many hot OVER 400 hp engines have your bolted together? My hotrod engine only has 375 hp, but I bet it would beat a lot of "450 HP 396s" and such. I know cause I drag race it.

I've also tuned motors for my dad and uncle's. Maybe I should rephrase what I said earlier... Actually, let's just do this. It's not hard to build a 500 HP engine. IT'S NOT EASY TO GET IT TO MAKE 500 HP though.

 

[ryoken]

it did.

this is what i was talking about when i said not with those heads.

the point is you have no freaking clue which 396 heads are on it!!!

stock 396 rectangular port heads with mild work can get you 500 h.p relatively easy...

 

[WantedaDodge]

so your buddy has been building big blocks since the 60s, and you're the big block guru. my uncle know's Bob Chandler personally, so that automatically makes him a monster truck legend too, right? i suggest you pups get back on the porch where you belong.

see my above post...

I've been around performance engines since I was knee high... This guy is like my third grandfather and he used to have an 8 second dragster he built himself. He's taught me almost everything I know. He is now one of the most known engine builders on the local dirt track circuit.

 

[AkMudr]

Fellas this is beginning to turn into a pissing contest if anything else. Chaulk this one up in the lost column. Once again, another thread turned to ****.

 

[SUBFAN]

Your HP estimates are within reach, but I think your torque numbers are reaching a bit. My boss is in the process of building a 600 horse 396....


I think he is wrong using the factory forged crank and rods. I have seen the Dart heads, and they are sweet. He is using a solid roller cam and installing it into a '68 Camaro....

We will see what the final numbers come out to be....

 

[dirtwarrior17]

i've "bolted together" 2+ 400+ hp engines for every year that you've been alive. how many have i built? 5 or 6 were my own formula. you're 19, what kind of "375hp hot rod" did mommy and daddy buy you

what is your problem? Were are the future of this sport....I'm not saying that you were talking to me but serious man, just because somebody is under drinking age doesn't mean they had their mommy and daddy buy them a motor because they are clueless... you would be suprised how many kids have a knowledge of their OWN(maybe not so much others in my case) rigs and motors and source all the parts themselves, get it running, themselves, pull the tranny themselves, and tune it themselves because i am one of them... I may have been off about the 396 but it was in the ballpark. I know how to put a motor together and i bet wantedadodge does.... the process stays the same no matter how many you have put together...

I'm speaking from experience in this area because i have spent the last 3 weeks bickering: Your gonna get no where and you will spend most of your time arguing instead of giving usefull information or getting it. Just let it go and end it... I was saying it would be 425 and depending on what he does i could be wrong or right... he didn't give us parts listings, heads, or hardley anything besides saying it was a 396 , its ****ing retarted to sit here and argue about it...

I'm out..

Peace

 

[rjfguitar]

hate to burst your bubble

Thats my line, find your own...

but i had mine bursted yesterday on a subject like this.

Happy to help...

Peterbeater,

Relax a bit. You are acting a bit immature yourself. Dont go around making statements like "did your mommy and daddy buy it for you?" because you have no clue about anyone here personally.

 

[dirtwarrior17]

you do not know everything

nobody does. I took a guess at what kind of parts he would use as fars as pistons, rings, heads, cam, manifold, headers, etc which all has to be smog legal and said 425... which is resonable where i live considering its CA. Then i posted this because sometimes i forget we are the only state with these smog standards....

I meant hp wise the post says the same thing but your right my first estimate was too low.

a smog legal 396 is hard to get over 425 with stock heads and in cali it doesn't matter were the motor came from it matters what you put it in... 85 K5 has to pass 85 standards no matter what you put in it...but if its not... you can go 700 lift with all the wild stuff and make 550 no problem.

I could say im planning on building a 350 with stock heads, aftermarket manifold, cam, carb, exhaust, full roller, etc and would get A LOT of different power numbers. Like i said the parts could be any you could think of because he didn't give us a parts list so settle down a little bit when you snap some youngsters head off.

 

[grimjaw]

Crap! ...I think I log on to Pirate by mistake.

 

[bigyellowjimmy]

If you are looking for those HP numbers you are going to need lots of compression, solid roller cam and lots of head work. It can be done but it wont be street friendly. If you can live with 350-375HP it will be much easier on your pocket book to build and will actually idle and run on premium fuel instead of race gas.

EDIT....I posted this without reading the replies, looks like there's a bunch of bickering going on here though....

 

[dirtwarrior17]

I didn't say he mentioned smog i said I thought it had to pass smog because I am forced to think about smog everytime i think about what im going to do to my motor so naturally i forget that other states don't have the sames rules. I corrected myself and said the estimate was too low after i realized that. I don't that is acting like I know it all because i have said im wrong and you may think im acting like I know it all but look whos talkin..... not only that, you are acting like we turn to our parents everytime somebody says something like piston, cam, heads.

smog legal 396 is hard to get over 425 with stock heads and in cali it doesn't matter were the motor came from it matters what you put it in... 85 K5 has to pass 85 standards no matter what you put in it...but if its not... you can go 700 lift with all the wild stuff and make 550 no problem.

(since i know you've probably got a degree in geography too, i wont bother to tell you its on the opposite cost that Commiefornia is on)

 

[WantedaDodge]

Mommy and Daddy didn't buy me anything, I've put $11000 hard earned dollars into my car and I don't appreciate assholes like you who don't even know me talking crap.

Yes, if everything was port matched, the motor would run very good, but most people can't do all the port matching and polishing like others can.

I never said it couldn't be done, you obviously don't even think about the words I have posted. I didn't say I know everything, I said I know bigblocks, all I'm saying is I've had plenty experience with them.

I know something else, there aren't very many 11 second cars that you wouldn't guess as race cars. If your friend has an 11 second street car, Kudos to him.

My uncle has an 11 second street car that I've done a lot of work and also driven quite a bit. it's pretty amazing the difference between a 13 second car, a 12 second car and an 11 second car!

However much power our friend gets out of his 396, he's gonna have to remember traction as well

Beater_K20, just curious, but what did I say that pissed you off so much? I guess I don't understand? And about assumption, he said it was a 396 out of a station wagon. There weren't very many hi po 396s put in station wagons. I think most were like 300-325(forget exactly, but the same motor that was in my Granddad's '66 Impala)

 

[WantedaDodge]

not true at all. i have a buddy with a Regal, gets 13 mpg, runs 11s all day long. look at it sitting still you'd never know it wasnt stock, fire it up, you'd never know its not just another car with an aftermarket exhaust. idles smooth as can be, mild torque converter just enough you can tell when he leaves the line. 3.73 gears, so the highway r's arent all that bad. what's the secret? DETAILS! everything is port matched, the rotating assembly has been lightened and balanced. did i mention he runs a F.A.S.T. EFI setup?

i've "bolted together" 2+ 400+ hp engines for every year that you've been alive. how many have i built? 5 or 6 were my own formula. you're 19, what kind of "375hp hot rod" did mommy and daddy buy you?

so suddenly we raise our bar from 425 hp, to 500 hp.

I bet that regal didn't cost anything to put together either? I bet it was really cheap and on a budget like most enthusiast. My 375 Horsepower Chrysler 360 LA was my own formula as well, put together when I was 16.

And whats the 425 to 500 HP thing supposed to mean? What I meant was sure you can have a 500 horsepower motor, but that doesn't mean it's gonna actually make 500 horsepower. It should, but it may not cause some part of the tuning is critically off.

And don't call us kids. I've kicked plenty of "man" asses before in my life. I think I've got the right to be one of the rest of you even if I can't go to the bar with you. How old are you anyhow? Are you really that much older then me? 5 years isn't much, hell, my old girlfriend was older then you.

Just for your info, check my website in my profile and take a look at my car.

 

[thor]

500 hp/450-500 ft# wouldn't be too hard. More would be pushing it. It's all a balancing act, this is a combination that will have good manners, a real strong midrange, and pull to 6K . The stock crank and rods will be fine. Have the rods resized with arp bolts. It will need a 3.73 to 4.10 gear and an 11" 2500 stall converter, like a TCI breakaway.

Heads: AFR 265 cc ovals. You can make the stock ovals flow with port work and bigger valves, but no where near as well as these do! Last few sets of iron 781s I had done still end up in the >$1,200.00 range so bite the bullet and spend the $ up front. Any one who recommends rectangle ports on a motor this small has never run them.

Intake Holley strip dominator, or Edelbrock performer RPM with a 4779 or 4780 holley carb. I like the holley manifold on bigger cubed motors, but the edelbrock would probably work better for a 396.

Pistons: TRW 2242, the compression will be around 10:1 with the afr heads, but with the cam it will work.

Cam; Lunati hydraulic, #302A8LUN This is an old "ultradyne" grind I've run and love. This cam rocks for it's size. Anyhow when ultradyne cams folded Herold Brookshire went to work for Lunati and brought his catalog with him. He's the guy that started comp cams, and designed all the pre extreme grinds. The specs are 231/239 @ .050 .550/.575 lift 110 LC