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Hydraulic assist question

gone huntin

gone huntin

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I just installed hyd. assist on my crew cab and have a small issue. I used a 8" PSC ram, but I have almost 9" of turn if that makes sense. I turned all of the way to the left and extended the ram to full extent and tacked the brackets in place. Then when I turn back to the right the ram bottoms out before I hit the stops on the knuckle. If I take the bolt out of the ram on the tie rod it will keep going almost an inch before it hits the stops. There is about 7/16" of threads showing on both stop bolts on the knuckles. This is on a D60.
 
That's odd. Are you steering stops on the knuckle in the factory position?
 
I'm guessing your steering wasn't properly centered before you did the install. When I did mine, I had a similar issue. I found that though it was aligned properly, I had it set up such that there was far more turning capability in one direction than the other. This had to do with my drag link being improperly set. So, I went through and did a full alignment first and it fixed my issue.

EDIT: Here's my post on hydro, which includes my alignment/draglink stuff. http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308273&highlight=assist
 
My actual stroke was also about 9" from lock to lock.
But I had the wheels straight and the 8" ram on exactly half stroke, when I tacked mine in place.
Don't bother with the steering stops, the rams will act as stops in both directions if set up right.

If you want smaller turning radius, you could take a longer ram and place a turned spacer inside it to limit the throw, to exactly what you like.

But keep in mind that tighter turning equals more stress on your u-joints...
 
From everything I've read on assist and full hydro the ram should not be the limiter. Properly set up the solid steering stops will come in right before the ram limits. Main reason being if you hit something and the wheels are slammed full lock one way you don't want the hydraulic cylinder taking the shock of it. They aren't designed to do it. I don't have any links to reference right now. Just a did a ton of reading when I setup my assist 5-6 years ago and again with full hydro 3 or 4 ago.
 
ssyork said:
From everything I've read on assist and full hydro the ram should not be the limiter. Properly set up the solid steering stops will come in right before the ram limits. Main reason being if you hit something and the wheels are slammed full lock one way you don't want the hydraulic cylinder taking the shock of it. They aren't designed to do it. I don't have any links to reference right now. Just a did a ton of reading when I setup my assist 5-6 years ago and again with full hydro 3 or 4 ago.
Click to expand...

I read this too when I did my own DIY assist set up. I was thinking about your issue....did you check your toe in/out before doing this? I am wondering if you were toe out really bad (both TRE's exteneded out of the tie rod farther than they should be). Because in that case, you would most likely have more throw before hitting the stops. Just trying to think of things you can double check.

I know my ram is not 100% perfect as far as position in relation to the stops, but it is close enough so if a situation like what ssyork just described happens, the ram wouldn't be destroyed. That's what you are aiming for.
 
Are you sure the cylinder was fully extended when it was turned to the left?
 
Is the tow-in set to spec?

If the tow-in is too far in the steering stroke would increase.

Here's how I set my ram to center:

Set the tow-in to spec.

Use a framing square and make a reference mark on the axle and tie rod at full right, then full left.

Measure the distance between and mark the center. Line up the center mark to the original reference mark and the tires should be perfectly centered.

Set the ram to center and mount it.

Now if you have a 9" steering stoke and an 8" ram you will have problems.

Good luck!
 
Yes, the ram was extended all of the way. I went to adjust the bump stop bolts, but some ass hat welded them in place. I've still got to align it so I'll play with it a little more once I get it on the alignment rack. I did replace the tie rod with a dom tie rod and new ends. I did set it to match the length of the one I took off that was properly set. Thanks for your thoughts guys.
 
Why would a bolt be welded so it couldn't be adjusted? The bolt was welded to the jam nut, not to the knuckle. I plan on replacing the bolts and nuts with new ones.
 
Dunno, mine were welded too (D60&D44)

My stops are about 1/8" short of hitting with my PSC 8" ram. I haven't bothered to fix it yet cause I haven't read anything bad about it (not that I really looked). I've always had the thought that I don't want the ram pulling on the tierod/knuckle while the stopped are bottomed out. I see that causing stress. (But this has been argued before lol) either way, how often are you full clock? I street drive my truck occationally and bump against the stops, but in 4x4 I never like doing that to the U-joints.
 
pblaze725 said:
Steering stops are always welded. :D
Click to expand...
Easily fixed and then adjust so they are the stop, not the ram.

I usually grind the weld till I can remove them and replace. With bigger tires you usually need a little less steer or tires will hit anyway. Less turn = way less stress on the axle joint.
 
ssyork said:
From everything I've read on assist and full hydro the ram should not be the limiter. Properly set up the solid steering stops will come in right before the ram limits. Main reason being if you hit something and the wheels are slammed full lock one way you don't want the hydraulic cylinder taking the shock of it. They aren't designed to do it. I don't have any links to reference right now. Just a did a ton of reading when I setup my assist 5-6 years ago and again with full hydro 3 or 4 ago.
Click to expand...


I disagree with that.
I think a hydraulic ram can take much more abuse than that.
Also consider that the steering arms for the TRE's are 8" long from the center of the steering axis,
while the stops screw are about 2-3" (only guesstimating here:o) from it.
So the rams might only see about 25% of the force that would be applied to the stop screws.

The only thing I can think of that would speak against using the ram as a limiting factor,
would be that the TRE:s would take slightly more of a shock load when a wheel bottoms out...
 
I'm not going to argue. Just do whatever it takes to set it up right. The ram and the stops need to match pretty close. My hydro assist wasn't set up the best and I cracked, almost sheared both my stock D60 knuckles, sheared a Chevy 1 ton tre and bananaed a 1/4" wall tie rod on all 36's. Hence all the reading when going to full hydro. Haven't broken a part in 3 years now.
 
ssyork said:
I'm not going to argue. Just do whatever it takes to set it up right. The ram and the stops need to match pretty close. My hydro assist wasn't set up the best and I cracked, almost sheared both my stock D60 knuckles, sheared a Chevy 1 ton tre and bananaed a 1/4" wall tie rod on all 36's. Hence all the reading when going to full hydro. Haven't broken a part in 3 years now.
Click to expand...

That sounds ugly :doah:
I guess it wouldn't hurt to have the stop screws set as well as the ram, so they can share the force :waytogo:
 
It didn't all happen at once, it was over a 3 year period. But yeah :banghead: Steering worked well, just broke some parts!
 
I went and bought some new, longer stop bolts today to put on it. I'm going to set them to match the ram.
 
gone huntin said:
I went and bought some new, longer stop bolts today to put on it. I'm going to set them to match the ram.
Click to expand...

I should probably do this too, cause like I mentioned before, I know mine is not exactly perfect. Could be worth the cheap cost of materials to have some piece of mind so stuff doesn't brake as much like you said, ssyork.

Where did you get your longer stop bolts? Auto parts store or...?
 
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