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I hate these odd ignition issues, HEI module revisited?

ccarley

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It sure is hard to search for HEI module failure symptoms, where threads may have a fix involved. Might be cool to have a sticky with failure modes & fixes?

Previously, I had module after module fail. The OEM module (well, it was original as far as I know at least) had visible signs of burning on the underside. Replaced several modules after that, as well as the coil, and it finally came down to the pickup in the distributor that probably had fragile wires to the module. The failed pickup symptoms were odd; it would run, then run badly, and die with no codes thrown. An ohm reading on the pickup suggested it was bad, and replacement confirmed that was the issue.

Now... after running for around a year with an Accel module in my dizzy, it threw code 42 the other day. So I drove home, and while the check engine light stayed off, and it ran fine, I still changed the module with my spare new Jeg's unit. Again, it ran fine, until yesterday. Now, it's fine cold, and does some odd things which may indicate failure yet again. As it warms up, the check engine light comes on, and I loose power. Confirmed it's code 42 again. Then, as it continues to run (possibly cooling off) the light goes out, and power returns. And then the cycle seems to continue; light comes on with a sudden loss of power, and I didn't wait for it to go off again.

Now, my mounting bolts for the module look a little crusty. Does it get it's ground through those bolts? That could be part of the problem, however I'm not trusting the Jeg's module at this point. I still have the Accel module that came out, and may throw that in before I drive home today.

I did find through searching the best, most reliable module to purchase would be another GM version. So I may try to find one, however there haven't been any parts shops close by that carry them.
 
Personally I would just buy a napa one and maybe do the ohm checks on the pick up coil and coil again just to be sure you don't have one of them bad burning up modules.
 
I personally wouldn't trust Accel parts as far as I could throw them. I learned my lesson years ago on my first truck. I bought one of those complete tune up kits and the distributor cap was warped right out of the box. The plugs were bad after just a few months and the wires felt cheap to me.

After trying this brand and that over the years, I just go with AC Delco and call it good.
 
When I was at gm I even used gm parts on our stock car, never had a problem. Now I use some napa because I don't get a discount at gm anymore. Still never had a problem. I wouldn't use accel.
 
Ok, I am going to try and stop by a Napa today then. Will do the ohm checks again... I did not do that yesterday when I changed my cap &rotor rotor. Either that Accel cap or rotor were off center. Maybe the extra arcing was bad for the module lol.

So on the other hand, crusty mounting bolts probably aren't hurting anything?
 
A friend of mine put an Accel module in his 350 ,in a '62 Nova he built...the engine never ran right with that thing init,I got a used GM module from the junkyard I was working in and gave it to him,it ran much better with the well used OEM one..he also learned the hard way the MSD distributor he bought from Jegs was unsuitable for a street driven vehicle,as it had no vacuum advance...I had tried to tell him they were mostly for a "dragstrip only" type vehicle,and after swapping it for a stock HEI distributor,his engine felt like it gained 50+ hp over the "race" parts ...............................................................................................................................................................................................................The Accell module looked like a hunk of printed curcuit board with transistors and resistors all exposed...it would sputter and backfire upon acceleration and surge,ping and run like crap with that thing supplying the spark...I dont like their parts,they seem cheap,and unreliable..about the only thing with their name on it I used and had any luck with,was spark plugs,the special "shorty" header ones...their plug wires suck!.................................................................................................It could be your distributor is not grounding well,maybe adding a ground wire from the body of it to the negative battery post will help...be sure to clean the base of the module and where it sits in the housing,and put the hi-temp heat transfer compund under it,it wont live long without any,and its not "good enough" to just scrape the old stuff off the old module and re-use it,it should be put on fresh for best results...a charging rate too high can fry modules too,check your altenator output...
 
You used heat sink on the module? Not dielectric grease. Grease kills the module pretty quick.
I just had a code 42. Alittle digging showed there was 2 modules from Delco.
I went with 19179578 which is the 369 module.
EagleMark had pointed out some good posts on thirdgen.org about modules and where their rpm range lay.
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/posts/diy-prom/465232-ebl-sa-latency-table/3775917-post26.html
My truck never sees over 3K so 369 works for me. Got rid of my loping idle and got power back past 2500rpm. I can run up the 14 freeway at 65-70 now vs 50mph before I fixed it.
My truck just seems to hate anything but Delco parts.
I still am going to get a new Delco distributor as I have some wobble in the original one and looks really crusty in there. Should be 1103952 if you need one.
Have yet to figure out what the yellow dot means on modules.
Overheated maybe?
 
I used the stuff that came with the modules... which appears to be dielectric grease, and not thermal compound. I do recall reading somewhere that thermal compound would be better though.

I ended up with another 13+ hour day yesterday, and nursing the truck home. I kept telling it to at least get me home, and then you can die there LOL.

Since the mag pickup was replaced, what maybe a year or two ago, I suppose it's possible that it's bad again given that it's probably not an AC Delco part that's installed in there. This is exactly why I want to carry a complete spare distributor when traveling... when I'm 30 or 40 miles away from a parts house, and the ignition takes a dump, where does that leave me?

Good info there, Eagle Mark is indeed a wealth of information!
 
The "paint dot" on the module was how GM "matched" the module to the ignition coils...GM made 2 different coils,one of the wires to it is yellow,to indicate its polarity is reversed compared to others with a red wire and a module with a red dot...the pickup coils used with these modules are also wound according to the distributor rotation and the coil windings are "matched" to the module and pick up coil................................................................................................................................................................................................................its possible to "mix" these parts and it'll still run,but not effeciently,reversing the coil polarity reduces spark voltage ,some GM cars had a recall in the 80's when it was discovered some cars left the factory with mis-matched ignition coils and modules,and GM replaced the coils free of charge..my older brothers 1896 Monte-Carlo SS was among the ones recalled,and driving it after the right coil was installed made a noticeable difference,no more stumble on takeoff and it felt more powerful...(had the 305 HO engine)....
 
I decided after reading this to buy an ACdelco module for mine.. I havent personally had any issue with my accel one (even with NO grease or what everit is under it) after a year n a half. But by the sounds of this and MANY other threads its only a matter of time. So I looked up ALL the parts stores in town and CANT find one:doah: Nobody has the delco unit, even napa online. Looks like I'll have to go through summit ($65):dunno:

I went to each site and put my truck info in then clicked (ignition module) in the drop down menu's. Are they really that hard to find or am I looking wrong:confused:
 
I seen the amazon one. I may have to get it. Thats alot cheaper than summit. I havent looked at rockauto yet. I just thought it was wierd that neither Autozone, Napa, or Orilley's had the delco one.
 
The mounting screws for the EST/ICM are the grounds.

Heat dissapating grease is what is needed and looks like dielectric grease but does not work the same.

Biggest problem with Accell or MSD modules is Spark Latentcy in the module, no one knows what it is? They won't tell or don't know? So who knows where timing will be? Some aftermarket modules were tested to find 11 degrees difference in timing.

Not to mention all the failures reported from using aftermarket. While many stock OEM EST modules run fine for 200k + miles...

Speaking of miles... if you have over 100K you may want to pull distributor and check for worn shaft, worn gear, cracked magnet in reluctor wheel, green corrosion on pickup coil, rust in pole pieces.

The distributor from GM works great and lasts a long time. New ones are available and all come with Melonized gear now which came in roller cam TBI engines. Best dollar spent for performance and reliability is a new GM AC Delco distributor complete. Can't improve on perfection...

RockAuto
Skoggin Dickey (lowest price last chaecked)
Amazon
 
I need to pick up a good stock dizzy and throw the new parts on it. The crappy jap billet one I bought off ebay seems to be the root of all my issues.
 
I bet that the ground issue, along with maybe some arcing in the cap... could have caused all sorts of bad. I checked out skoggin dickey, not a bad price for the whole distributor.
I think I'll go that route, and clean up/ rebuild the old one for a spare.

Thanks for the info!
Clay
 
OK, well, no new dizzy yet.

I swung by Napa auto parts, picked up a module & pickup coil there. Had to stop by Sears to replace my 3/8" ratchet, and picked up a punch set too :)

The job to replace that pickup coil wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be, just FYI. With the right tools (dizzy wrench, punch) it was cake. Marked the rotor position, put it back the same way, didn't time it yet but the dizzy is right where it was. Last time I timed it, 0 degrees lined up #1 on the cap with the coil.

I pulled the ECM fuse to clear the computer, fired it up, and it ran fine. I think/hope the computer was doing it's learning after it warmed up though, as the idle dropped suddenly, but still ran smooth. Didn't drive it yet, but will soon...
 
The delco dizzy helped me a lot. That combined with some grounds that were bad. Spent most of yesterday rewiring. The ECM needs like 4 different grounds. I would try to trace all of them and make sure they are all there.
 
I pulled the ECM fuse to clear the computer, fired it up, and it ran fine. I think/hope the computer was doing it's learning after it warmed up though, as the idle dropped suddenly, but still ran smooth. Didn't drive it yet, but will soon...
Sounds like it's running right now! :D



The delco dizzy helped me a lot. That combined with some grounds that were bad. Spent most of yesterday rewiring. The ECM needs like 4 different grounds. I would try to trace all of them and make sure they are all there.
But they are tied together to 2 spots on engine, one at thermastat housing and other to back of head or back of intake manifold.

Tons of grounds tied together in harness...
 
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