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Injection pump gear, can it be out of time?

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stoneagemaxx

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hey everyone, i was searching through the timing threads and couldent find what i was looking for, my question is if while the injection pump was out the motor got turned over could the injection pump gear jump a tooth or two? so is there enough room between the gear case and the cover for it to get out of time? thanks for the anwsers
 
No. The mounting part of the IP, and the corresponding gear it mounts to, use a dowel for alignment. Get the dowel in the dowel hole, bolt up the three bolts and that's it. This would be through the oil fill tube hole (don't drop anything down the inside of the front cover...)

Once it's bolted up all you need to do is confirm the timing marks are aligned. You'll find those marks on the IP itself, and on the timing cover. The three studs the IP is snugged down with need to be loose to rotate the pump to get it lined. When the marks are lined up it's timed.

Rene
 
well i worked on the burb all day, swapped in a freshly rebuilt pump, primed the system but cant get fuel to come to the injectors, the fuel shutoff solonoid "clicks" as it should when powerd up, and i get fuel comming out of the return, (i pulled the return line off of the ip and it was pumping tons of fuel out but even tried plugging it for a min and still nothing to the injectors, any ideas? my only idea is the ip pump gear is out of time w/ the cam gear any thoughts? (this happend on my '92 CTD when the nut holding the gear on failed.) thanks

also in respons to rene, i thought the marks dident mean anything if it wasent the original pump is it not true that they were timed from the factory then stamped w/ the marks? and does anybody know what a timing tool such as the snap on runs or is there anybody in lower michigan that would be willing to help me out with the use of one thanks again
 
OK, to get the air out there is a specific procedure you need to do. With the large pink power wire unplugged, spin the motor over until you know you have good supply of fuel to the IP. I usually loosen a line near the IP, and use a remote starter switch to crank and watch for fuel flow.

Once you have adequate fuel going to the IP (no air) loosen all 8 injectors lines at the injectors. Plug the pink wire back in, remove the glow plugs, and have a helper crank the motor for 15 second intervals (one minute rest between cranking) until you see fuel start to drip from the injector lines. As they drip, tighten them up. When 7 or 8 have all dripped fuel and have been tightened up, re-install the glow plugs...hit the key and fire it up.

You're correct on the timing marks not being as relevant with a rebuilt IP. They will get you ballparked very close though. My newer 6.2 has a rebuilt IP, and the IP mark is less than 0.030" advanced past the timing cover line. Even at that conservative setting it runs just a little bit louder than my '83 does.

The correct tool for timing these is a luminosity probe, and most any diesel shop will have one. Line up the marks and you should be close enough.

Rene
 
Rene, thanks for the help, i thought that's how to bleed the system but a friend that was here yesterday insisted that the pink wire had to remain hooked up, i'll do this today, thanks for the help again
 
well, i replaced all of the return lines because they were old and leaky, figured was sucking air there, also primed the system, getting a steady stream of fuel at the air bleed ontop of the heater/filter unit, pulled the glowplugs, well all except one, it wont comeout, mushroomed head?, what causes that?, figured i had fuel up to the pump after priming, plugged the pink wire back in, 2 people watched each side of the engine and still got no fuel from any injector line, tried retarding, and advancing the pump both w/ no results. this is really stumping me, i had already checked the feed line going into the ip and it had 6psi so that leads me to belive the lift pump and the filter are good. any ideas now?
 
Here is a longer, more specific thread written by someone infinitely smarter than I am.

http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69490

I'm thinking your IP still has air in it. Should be able to pull the pink wire off again, and remove the fuel return line on the top front of the IP and crank it a little. Once you have fuel coming out of there, re-connect pink, loosen injector nuts and watch for fuel dripping.

Rene
 
well, for the heck of it i took your advice, did the bleed process again and to my suprise we started getting fuel dripping from the lines all 8 i belive, then cleaned up the terminals on the glow plugs i pulled, and reinstalled them, what is there to do about the glowplug that wont come out, is pulling the head the only option? i hooked up the lines at the injectors and tried for the start but it still wont, not even a sign of fireing, i played around w/ the timing a little too to see if it might be to far off but still got no signs of life what's going on here? right now i'm changing out my starter, no i dident burn er up, the darn thing has always kicked back sometimes after 10 sec of turning over but usually if only will crank for 2-4 sec then kick, was told the bendix is bad but they want 95 buck just for it so i'm puttting a spare from another 6.2 i have hopefully the lack of starter power has something to do w/ it not running:D , well back out to the truck to finish er up
 
Sounds like your glow plugs are done. The ones you can't get out have swollen tips. Some guys keep unthreading them hoping the swollen tip catches a thread and eventually threads itself out.

Grab a test light, connect the alligator clip to the positive batt terminal. Use the probe to touch the spade terminal of each glow plug. If the test light comes on you have continuity and most likely a functioning glow plug. No light comes on means the glow plug is dead.

Once you're down to 5 or fewer glow plugs working starting can be very difficult.

Playing with the timing won't do anything for ease of starting (unlike a gas engine) Align the marks and quit messing with it.

Crank speed is important too. The motor needs to turn over fast enough to superheat the intake charge. If that intake charge compresses too slowly the air doesn't heat up...squeeze it really fast and the air can get extremely hot and starting is a lot easier.

With an older starter I thought was OK I'd have to glow 8-10 seconds even when the motor was at operating temps just to get it to start. When I pony'd up for a new gear reduction starter I was outright amazed at the difference in starting. Now I only use my glow plugs if the motor is dead cold...if it's been run even for a few minutes and is even remotely warm I just hit the key and it starts like a gas engine (but faster) The gear reduction starter is known as a 28MT.

Good batts at full charge with good cables are also a must.

I hope some of this helps.

Rene
 
the problem w/ the starter was it, it wasnot getting to spin over long enough, i actually put the gear reduction starter off a '92 i had laying around, the first turn of the key after about 6 sec of turning over it fired right up, so it just was not cranking long enough, i also attribute the hard bleeding process to the starter too, what do you guy's think?, but she's running great again, its been a year since it was together, i've had two pumps in and out of it, thye were both tested and proved bad, this pump was freshly rebuilt and only cost 250 w/o a core not to bad, this burb has never ran so good

also want to say thanks again rene, i would have given up on air in the system a long time ago
 
Awesome!! Yes slow cranking can cause all sorts of headaches. Glad to hear you got it running again, and that it's running good. It's common for many systems to need repair on these old beasts. Any one thing by itself usually isn't a problem, but combined they can make your life hell. Once everything is up to snuff these motors start and run very reliably...

Who rebuilt your IP? I had one done at www.accuratediesel.com in 2003 and was very happy. I had the IP and 8 injectors rebuilt and it was under $350 which included the shipping both ways. Tim was also very good to deal with and even expidited my order for no extra cost. I grossly miscalculated the lead time and had no time to spare before Blazer Bash '03. I called Tim up and he graciously offered to fast track my order.

Yes, slow cranking can cause more trouble bleeding out the air. Your friend insisting on having the pink wire connected while getting fuel to the IP didn't help either...:)

Rene
 
i agree on the shutoff solonoid, superior diesel in dearborn, MI did the pump, my dad works for an underground cable company and they have a fleet of 7.3's and he was doing IP's and injectors in 3 of them and while he was on the phone with the shop he told them of the 6.2 we were working on and the service guy from superior, (sorry i don't have his name) brought an extra ip for my 6.2 and said 250 cash it was ours so figured i couldent pass it up. well thanks again
 
?, the brace that came off the huge original starter, or was the gear reduction supposed to have a diff brace?
 
The gear reduction starter uses a different brace. Supposed to be easy to make one out of angle iron is what I've heard but I haven't done it myself.
 
well thats good to know, i'll jump under there and see what it takes, i dident pull one off the '92 when it came off tho, kinda wierd, someone prob replaced it b4 i got it
 
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