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Input Needed! Air bag body mount idea

Fancy

Fancy

1/2 ton status
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OK so I searched and search and can't find any information on why or why not to do this or even if it is possable.

THE IDEA
Despite reasoning, I wanted to know if you could use the concept of air bags for body mounts/lift. The idea would be so while your on the street you could ride low for handling ect. and then increase your lift lets say 2-3" when you wheel. I don't care if you thinks its dumb, pointless or a waist of money all i'm looking for is constructive feedback or ideas. So if you don't like it then don't post.

I have no experience with air bags or body lifts so im kind of in the dark. However every thing i can think of that is required for a body lift can be adjusted to accommodate this idea its weather an air bags can handle this task and still act as a body mount at the same time. I do know that range rover has something similar to this idea as i have driven one and this is where i got the idea. So if you have good information or creative ideas post them up or even a place to get information.

TRUCK INFO
My truck is not my daily but it dose see a lot of road time and i try to make it as universal as possible. I have built it form stock myself and have pretty good skills or have buddies that have better. My truck has 6" of lift with 39.5" tires and trimed wells that only rub sometimes when i wheel here hard. 4" front spring with longer shackles and zero rate. Shackle flip and 2" spring in the rear. let me know if you need more info.
 
Well unless i get someone with a real good reason telling me beware or not to i plan to give it a shot but not for awhile got a lot of research to do first. So when i do i'll post about it with pics.
 
I don't see why you couldn't. As long as you built in the required slack for the brake lines, had the steering shaft telescopic, and the length/flexibility built into the wiring harness, there really isn't any reason you couldn't do it. Obviously there would be quite a bit of fabrication involved, but it's doable. Just remember, though, that the vehicles that do this type of thing from the factory (Porsche, VW, etc...) have adjustable suspension, not adjustable body mounts. But it is the same theory, I suppose.
 
Recon! said:
Just remember, though, that the vehicles that do this type of thing from the factory (Porsche, VW, etc...) have adjustable suspension, not adjustable body mounts. But it is the same theory, I suppose.
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X2. Your biggest issue isnt' going to be replacing the body mounts with air bags, the biggest issue will be keeping it from swaying side to side.

You need some sort of a extendable frame system that will only allow the body to move up/down, instead of sway all over the place.

That is what will require some flexibility.

Also, every solid linkage from body to frame (shifters, clutch lines, etc.) will need to be converted to some sort of a cable shift to work in varying distances between body/frame.


Going to be tough, make sure you think it through before you do it.

I see it being a lot easier to build an airbag system into some sort of frame that drops a leaf spring shackle crossmember to provide lift for offroad, rather than lifting the body off the frame.
 
dhcomp said:
I see it being a lot easier to build an airbag system into some sort of frame that drops a leaf spring shackle crossmember to provide lift for offroad, rather than lifting the body off the frame.
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This is the ticket! With a leaf sprung truck, you outboard all the shackles and hangers, and make all the mounts into airbag mounts. You'll need a stabilizer of some sort to maintain the position of the suspension so it doesn't flop all over, but it will be way easier to do this than the body mount way. You go full hydro on the steering, have some killer brake lines made, and it shouldn't too hard.

ORRRRRRRRR.... you get an IFS rig. Cut out the front suspension while it is all together, then you make a new crossmember to put airbags on, then slide the front suspension back in, then use the airbags to control height. Then you link the rear, maybe some sort of cantilever for maximum lift and travel like the body draggers do it. I could go on, you have my brain going at mach 12. Good thing I don't know how to weld, and I don't have poop loads of time and cash or I would probably try something like this.

I hate my impulsiveness sometimes...
 
I agree about the adjustable suspension thing! but can some one explain in a little detail what you mean about the out boarding the shackles. OR list a car they know has adjustable suspension so i can read up on it. I know range rover dose but don't know what model.

Also any recommendation on a good air bag company all the ones around here hardly speak English. Not to offend any one but if it comes down to custom bags communication will be key.
 
Well, now you're just getting into adjustable suspensions. Which has been done before in different ways.

When you get into the adjustable body lift, you would need to design some sort of system like used on a scissor lift to locate the body. Or better yet, maybe tube in tube with pins to lock it in at specific height so as not to get body sway.
 
496truck Well the over all point is basically adjustable suspension just taking a different approach but bottom line is no matter which way you do it the adjusting needs to be quick and painless.

I like the idea of the lockable tubing.

Can you link articles on other ways of adjustable suspension you refer of that meet the criteria.
 
496truck said:
When you get into the adjustable body lift, you would need to design some sort of system like used on a scissor lift to locate the body. Or better yet, maybe tube in tube with pins to lock it in at specific height so as not to get body sway.
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Among concerns like this I think you would have a possible problem when the system is deflated. Without some type of scissor like tracking I think you would have real bad body roll on the street. I've installed customs bags before and used a Slam Specialties internal bumpstop bag. This works great for static set-ups but they aren't designed to remain deflated while the vehicle is driven (@ least not the way I understand you). If you keep 'low' pressure in them at all times you experience even more body roll as they are very sloshy.

Good luck though! Please keep us updated.
 
Ya that is defiantly where my hang up is. I have no experience with airbags.
 
Your original idea was for adjustable body lift, I threw out an idea/concern. I was trying to stay on topic.

If you want to discuss adjustable suspension ideas... my first thought would be to link the axles (3 link, 4 link, etc.) and use air shocks/springs for weight support. I've seen them used on buggies. It would not be easy or cheap but definitely do-able.
 
496truck said:
Your original idea was for adjustable body lift, I threw out an idea/concern. I was trying to stay on topic.

If you want to discuss adjustable suspension ideas... my first thought would be to link the axles (3 link, 4 link, etc.) and use air shocks/springs for weight support. I've seen them used on buggies. It would not be easy or cheap but definitely do-able.
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Well i appreciate the respect for the topic. My future plans are to four link the rear with off road ltd kit or something similar as i would like to keep my springs for towing. However i wasn't sure how air bags worked in this case either. wouldn't they limit your flex and can you still tow with bags. I've heard a lot of stories about them blowing out. The only reason i was thinking adjustable body lift was so you are not limited in suspension setup.
 
I wasn't thinking air bags specifically. I was thinking air shocks that are designed to hold the weight of the vehicle. Pretty much the same design as a coil over shock but without the coil springs. Air pressure inside the shock supports the weight instead of any type of spring. I'm not sure they even make them to support the weight of a vehicle like a K5, especially loaded up with gear, passengers, etc. Plus add the towing also and I don't think it's an option.

I see it like this...

1. You can build a truck to wheel and still use it as a truck. This limits the extent of what you can modify.

2. You can build a truck to wheel and modify to what you want to wheel. This limits the extent of what you can do with it as a truck.
 
I like your break down! it is so true! Just a young inspiring engineer thinking out side the box tho. I truly appreciate everyone feedback i like to hear every angle before i dive into something. I have a few ideas and when i get to that stage i will defiantly track progress. I might not be able to construct them because of cost but i think the challenge is cool and who know maybe i can find a sponsor.
 
Check out Kelderman air ride......

I too have had this same idea....lack of money stopped foward progress....But did come up with cheapa** solution double shocks.....one regular...one air all four corner's fully air adjustable in cab.....when on the street no air in shocks.....lower ride height

Off road air them up 2-3" a little more clearence for the tires and wheel it!
 
Sounds like a good solution at first. But then you think about the air pressure in the additional shocks which basically increases spring pressure. This will limit suspension uptravel, sacrificing suspension flex. Not to mention the bone jarring ride as a result of the higher spring rate.

Like mentioned, check out Kelderman air ride. At least look at their designs to get ideas. Most of their stuff is geared towards HD trucks for towing/hauling. Not sure if they have anything to accomodate a flexy 4x4 suspension for off road purposes.
 
For the body lift on air idea, take a look at any modern tractor trailer truck. They all have air ride cabs as well as suspension.
 
I don't see how this could work. The only time I see air bags on trucks is when they are for additional support when towing heavy loads or if the truck is linked. I don't know how you would get a full 3+ inches of increase height at all four corners when using a leaf sprung suspension. Don't see how it is duable. As far as airbags on the body itself. Seems awfully complicated and $$$$$$$ to do it right. C'mon, your an Engineer, if done right and it works well, this is how you make your first Million $$. Good luck though.
 
Big Blzn said:
I don't see how this could work. The only time I see air bags on trucks is when they are for additional support when towing heavy loads or if the truck is linked. I don't know how you would get a full 3+ inches of increase height at all four corners when using a leaf sprung suspension. Don't see how it is duable. As far as airbags on the body itself. Seems awfully complicated and $$$$$$$ to do it right. C'mon, your an Engineer, if done right and it works well, this is how you make your first Million $$. Good luck though.
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With standard leaf's, correct, the bags won't provide height adjustment .

But if the leaf mounting points are on a system that gets raised/lowered by airbags, it could work.

Also, you are thinking load type airbags, which have a totally different purpose/build than ones that are setup for travel.
 
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