why spend 4x the money, if not more, when you can just coat mild steel and have the same result? 
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.
Is a little gloating ok?
- Thread starter dyeager535
- Start date
beags86
Eastbound and Down
it's probably not worth it in N/A application, and the increased scavenging
probably isn't worth the money.
probably better spent in a turbo application. I will give you that.
probably isn't worth the money.
probably better spent in a turbo application. I will give you that.
pure non metallic s.s. is non magnetic .
cheeper grades have some iron in it and magnet sticks to it .
I love all these people buying so called stainless steel parts and say it will never rust . . .and a magnet sticks to them all the time.
There are many grades of steels collectively called stainless. ALL have iron in them, not all are attracted to magnets. The differences are in the alloy composition, most importantly Chromium. The most common stuff we see on cars are 304 (what you call "pure non metallic", really Austenitic) and 409 (Ferritic). 316 is usually called "marine stainless".
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_steel_grades#Stainless_steel
I just figure the average ss header is probably 3x's a steel... than throw in a Jet hot on top of that...
I guess for some "might as well" situations it would be nice.....
and I would concur that coating them would probably help in the crack factor.... I just always feel the cracking tends to be more a material/build quality deal, than heat cycles.. but I'm sure they both factor in...
either way Dorian definitely got a damn good deal.... factoring in the O2, he probably spent $.35 on the dollar i'd guess....
I sent jet-hot an email, I'm curious what their take is on (at least) an internal coating. I'm not sold on doing it, but if customers have problems with it, I suspect they would be hesitant to recommend it. I figure they probably do enough of this that they would either have their own research or customer feedback.
Just in a short search I found an article that states jet-hot reduced the header surface temps by 50%. If an internal coating is effective, I would *think* that it would actually help prolong the life of stainless. Flawed thinking?
Apparently some headers are only made in stainless, so people that run them have no choice but to wrap or coat stainless for underhood temp reduction. I've seen nothing long term on that though. I don't think most people keep their vehicles long enough to worry about this stuff.
Just in a short search I found an article that states jet-hot reduced the header surface temps by 50%. If an internal coating is effective, I would *think* that it would actually help prolong the life of stainless. Flawed thinking?
Apparently some headers are only made in stainless, so people that run them have no choice but to wrap or coat stainless for underhood temp reduction. I've seen nothing long term on that though. I don't think most people keep their vehicles long enough to worry about this stuff.
Me personally I would buy stainless headers THEN have them Jet hot coated inside and out.
beags86
Eastbound and Down
I sent jet-hot an email, I'm curious what their take is on (at least) an internal coating. I'm not sold on doing it, but if customers have problems with it, I suspect they would be hesitant to recommend it. I figure they probably do enough of this that they would either have their own research or customer feedback.
Just in a short search I found an article that states jet-hot reduced the header surface temps by 50%. If an internal coating is effective, I would *think* that it would actually help prolong the life of stainless. Flawed thinking?
Apparently some headers are only made in stainless, so people that run them have no choice but to wrap or coat stainless for underhood temp reduction. I've seen nothing long term on that though. I don't think most people keep their vehicles long enough to worry about this stuff.
No your thinking is right on, this is what I was saying just a bit more technical
When I am finally up to this point of my build this is what I will be doing.
yeah it will cost me 1,000 bucks but I know I will have the best possible header
I JetHot coated a set of stainless headers on my Camaro and the engine bay wasn't any hotter than manifolds. The coating was tougher than nails even sanding it with 60 grit was quite a chore to scuff them to prep for welding on the collectors. I only coated them because I thought I'd keep the car a long time. Turns out I only put 20k miles on them but they still looked like new when I sold the car. I'm sold on coating headers regardless of the base material. In fact I have a set of stainless headers getting coated right now for my '12 Silverado.
They replied and were pretty adamant that the coating will not cause them to get brittle, crack, etc.
They coat inside and out, unless the customer says otherwise. Price quoted for long tube headers (they weren't sure of length to call them) was $355.00.
Realistically, in my "normal" application, the only possible benefit to coating would be to reduce the surface temp of the header, so things don't burn IF they touch. Potential temp reduction with that much space would seem to be pretty pointless to me. I think for $355 I can get pretty creative on plug wire holders and/or insulated plug wire coverings.
Don't get me wrong, a 50% surface temp reduction sounds great, I like it, I just can't justify the cost as I don't think the benefit is there. As mentioned, if the coating is that great (and jet-hot guarantees it for life) then why spend the money on stainless in the first place? Just get a set of mild steel headers, coat them, and be done with it.
Checked last night, a magnet will NOT stick to the headers.
I suspect if any applications would be more negatively affected by header wrap, it would be mine. It sits for a month or more at a time in the shade, so it gets very damp. It makes a mess of the aluminum components, so I suspect header wrap would do a real good job of absorbing/retaining water.
I suspect if any applications would be more negatively affected by header wrap, it would be mine. It sits for a month or more at a time in the shade, so it gets very damp. It makes a mess of the aluminum components, so I suspect header wrap would do a real good job of absorbing/retaining water.
I'm generally not a fan of header wrap products, seen it eat a pair of cheapie summit headers in under 2 yr's here in joysey...
but one thing i'll say about wrap tho is, I think it reduces engine bay heat by at least as much as jethot, if not more....
many of the boat manny's run this black wrap encapsulated epoxy type deal on some exhaust components... stuff right at the turbo's, etc too... it's a pretty stooopid expensive process tho... i'll see if I can remember to dig up a name this afternoon.. i'll post pics of a job I did that had it too....
but one thing i'll say about wrap tho is, I think it reduces engine bay heat by at least as much as jethot, if not more....
many of the boat manny's run this black wrap encapsulated epoxy type deal on some exhaust components... stuff right at the turbo's, etc too... it's a pretty stooopid expensive process tho... i'll see if I can remember to dig up a name this afternoon.. i'll post pics of a job I did that had it too....
Fock it. SS headers, Jethot, Header Wrap.
Do ALL the things!
not to be picky but money wise who got the better deal ? ?
you or me .
few years ago I got these . http://coloradok5.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2327614&postcount=13
you or me .
few years ago I got these . http://coloradok5.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2327614&postcount=13
Header wrap in and of itself is not very absorbent material compared to some things. Obviously more absorbent and retains moisture more than no wrap would.
That being said, if you drive the vehicle regularly, header wrap will have absolutely no effect on the life of your headers at all.
When your headers routinely hit.... what, 800 degrees? I don't even know, but hotter than the blazes, that bit of space between the headers and the wrap is the driest place on the planet, guaranteed!
If you wash the engine, couple minutes of run time and they are dry as a bone. Generally speaking, moisture from the outside will sit on the outside of the header wrap, never getting to the headers themselves, the fiberglass isn't that absorbent.
I've had both wrapped and unwrapped headers. I have headers that rusted through that weren't wrapped.
The blazer had wrapped headers. At one point after the wrap had been on there for quite a while, I had to pull it off, don't remember why. the headers under the wrap had less rust then the rest of the exhaust system that was not wrapped.
How much do they hold the heat in... I thought it was pretty amazing. When I rewrapped the headers, I didn't have enough clamps to finish the job. I ended up using a nylon zip tie for a "temporary" solution and had no intention of driving it that way. I promptly forgot all about it and drove it several times, full heat and cool cycles. During some routine maintenance, I saw the zip tie, still there, still holding just fine. I don't know what temperature they melt at. It was 10" or so down stream from the head itself. The stuff works.
Only reason I say all this, it seems there are so many stories of how header wrap "caused" a header to rust out so fast. I would like to know more of the details in these cases. There's more to it then putting on the wrap and they rusted out. My personal experience is exactly the opposite of all the stories I read about the product.
The only negative I have for the stuff is, if you spill some oil on it, it can and will cause a fire where as, a header alone seems to just smoke off rather than flame up. That was the one bad experience I had with it.
That being said, if you drive the vehicle regularly, header wrap will have absolutely no effect on the life of your headers at all.
When your headers routinely hit.... what, 800 degrees? I don't even know, but hotter than the blazes, that bit of space between the headers and the wrap is the driest place on the planet, guaranteed!
If you wash the engine, couple minutes of run time and they are dry as a bone. Generally speaking, moisture from the outside will sit on the outside of the header wrap, never getting to the headers themselves, the fiberglass isn't that absorbent.
I've had both wrapped and unwrapped headers. I have headers that rusted through that weren't wrapped.
The blazer had wrapped headers. At one point after the wrap had been on there for quite a while, I had to pull it off, don't remember why. the headers under the wrap had less rust then the rest of the exhaust system that was not wrapped.
How much do they hold the heat in... I thought it was pretty amazing. When I rewrapped the headers, I didn't have enough clamps to finish the job. I ended up using a nylon zip tie for a "temporary" solution and had no intention of driving it that way. I promptly forgot all about it and drove it several times, full heat and cool cycles. During some routine maintenance, I saw the zip tie, still there, still holding just fine. I don't know what temperature they melt at. It was 10" or so down stream from the head itself. The stuff works.
Only reason I say all this, it seems there are so many stories of how header wrap "caused" a header to rust out so fast. I would like to know more of the details in these cases. There's more to it then putting on the wrap and they rusted out. My personal experience is exactly the opposite of all the stories I read about the product.
The only negative I have for the stuff is, if you spill some oil on it, it can and will cause a fire where as, a header alone seems to just smoke off rather than flame up. That was the one bad experience I had with it.
Percentage-wise, think you got a way better deal. Mine were only half off, yours were like 70% off!
Since your experience with rust seems to counter the results of others, it's probably just dependent on many factors. I'm not aware of any manufacturers that don't void the warranty if you use wrap, so they must believe it's a problem, but your experience seems to say, how do you prove it was the wrap? I've seen plenty of anecdotal evidence to support the theory, however your experience is different.
I don't even really need the wrap, my present headers are only whatever Hedman's coating was (and only what is left of that) and I'm not really concerned with underhood heat, but they obviously work. In my case, it's really a solution to a non-existent problem. It's not that expensive, and I've burned myself and items a couple of times, so while it may help, the potential downsides I'm not sure outweigh the benefits.
I'm tempted to do it now more as an experiment than anything...will the stainless hold up? Will it crack? Will the wrap benefit me at all?
From personal experience if the exhaust isn't setup right, it will fail. And that adds a lot of room for failure in individual applications. The ball and socket design is supposed to be the end-all to leaks, and mine leak. Perhaps stories of cracked stainless comes more from that aspect than the composition of the metal used.
I think Kerts summary is.... If you wrap them, don't get them wet and let it sit. If the wrap gets wet, run it for a bit to dry it out.
If you go hit a mud puddle and then park it in the garage for a month.....
If you go hit a mud puddle and then park it in the garage for a month.....
