What's new
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.

Is my girlfriend screwed?

Dabba

Dabba

1/2 ton status
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Posts
1,839
Reaction score
2
Location
Long Island, New York
no guys, not like that, but really need some more advice out of you. I could be worrying about nothing being i know only the basics about engines, but here goes.

She just got a 93 mercury tracer a week ago with 80k miles. Today she was driving along and the engine just quit. She tried starting it, it cranked but wouldnt start. Her mechanic, the one who told her this is a good car said its the timing belt needs to be replaced and hes chargin 400 bucks. Is this good?

Also, i have no knowlage of how the starter on a car works (only seen one on an outboard engine, im assuming its much different) but im just worried about if the timing belt broke and the crankshaft was turning and the cam wasnt, wouldnt that equal bent valves and such?

So is 400 fair? And if the engine is shot, are we taking the hit here or is there some sort of lemon law? Hes the one who reccomended it to her family and look what they got. Ford/mercury garbage:mad:
 
Dabba said:
no guys, not like that, but really need some more advice out of you. I could be worrying about nothing being i know only the basics about engines, but here goes.

She just got a 93 mercury tracer a week ago with 80k miles. Today she was driving along and the engine just quit. She tried starting it, it cranked but wouldnt start. Her mechanic, the one who told her this is a good car said its the timing belt needs to be replaced and hes chargin 400 bucks. Is this good?

Also, i have no knowlage of how the starter on a car works (only seen one on an outboard engine, im assuming its much different) but im just worried about if the timing belt broke and the crankshaft was turning and the cam wasnt, wouldnt that equal bent valves and such?

So is 400 fair? And if the engine is shot, are we taking the hit here or is there some sort of lemon law? Hes the one who reccomended it to her family and look what they got. Ford/mercury garbage:mad:
Click to expand...

I believe the mercury tracer has a non interference motor so your ok there, as for price of belt, seems kinda high, but could be right in your area. our shop charges 60 an hour and i usually never see higher than 300 for a belt
 
okay, non interference is good. 80-90 and hour labor is common here. Anyone wanna explain to me the basics of how a starter works, at least on a k5?
 
Starter is pretty basic. It's an electric motor triggered by the key. When you turn the key on the starter spins and a bendix shoots out the little gear that meshes with the flywheel. The starter motor turns the engine over fast enough to allow it to start, and when you let go of the key the benidx de-energizes allowing the little starter gear to pull back so it's not turning with the flywheel anymore.

A broken timing belt can be bad...but it sounds like this isn't an engine that can have catastrphoci failure when the belt goes. $400 sounds in line, although if this is the same guy that recomended the car to you guys I'd twist his arm into giving you guys a decent discount.

Rene
 
Sorry to say but the 1.9 engine IS an interference engine. Whatever you do, DO NOT install a new timing belt without doing the water pump also. The timing belt drives the water pump on that engine. Also, those 1.9's in that era are known for intake seats falling out so i would recommend pulling the head and having all new intake seats installed and then a valve job and resurface before putting it back together (remember, i'm an automotive machinist who see's these heads on a regular basis).

Also about a lemon law, sorry to also say that there isn't anything of that nature to save you here. The belt could have went out after 10 minutes or 10 years.
 
Thanks! Yeah we were gonna try, i guess well see what happens. So pretty much the starter is the same as on an outboard motor. (only difference is the flywheel/starter is right on top when you take the cap off, easy access) So im guessing if a starter takes a dump its a royal pain to get to?
 
Thank you 4x4high. Im not prepared to do any sort of work on the car, my blazers my learning tool, which works being i feel most comfortable with an old carb engine. So i guess shell just have to trust her mechanic and pray she didnt destroy the engine when it was turning over. She said the belt was not intact and i know they were trying to restart it so it dosnt sound good here.
 
On most vehicles, the starter is a pretty easy job. On a K5 or other SBC, it is usually mounted on the passenger side of the engine at the bottom. It is held on with two bolts, and the hardest part in replacing them, is getting the wiring off and on. Most front wheel drive American cars, will have the starter mounted in the front at the bottom. Again pretty easy to do. As for that engine, I will never again recommend a Furd car to anyone. But, that is just my opinion.
 
4X4HIGH said:
Sorry to say but the 1.9 engine IS an interference engine. Whatever you do, DO NOT install a new timing belt without doing the water pump also. The timing belt drives the water pump on that engine. Also, those 1.9's in that era are known for intake seats falling out so i would recommend pulling the head and having all new intake seats installed and then a valve job and resurface before putting it back together (remember, i'm an automotive machinist who see's these heads on a regular basis).

Also about a lemon law, sorry to also say that there isn't anything of that nature to save you here. The belt could have went out after 10 minutes or 10 years.
Click to expand...

The 1.8 is interference, not the 1.9 engine; both came in the Tracers with the 1.9 being more common. I think I've changed the belt in my wife's Tracer four times since we have owned it. The belt costs around $20, but it's a good idea to change the tensioner while you are changing the belt. My first one broke while I was stopped in a toll booth. I threw the money in and hit the gas, I didn't even know the engine had died. The toll person ran out and put a cone behind the car to close the lane, like it was an everyday thing. The second belt went out in Panama, after that I change them every 40,000 miles.
 
Not sure about 1.9 being interferance or not. I have never heard of a Ford 1.9 loosing the timing belt and taking out the valves. I knew someone with ae Escort who lost the belt. We just changed it and was good to go. I called local ford shop. Told me 1.9 after 1991 were non interference.
Not that hard of a job. 400 seems like it is too much unless water pump, tentioner, ect is also changed.
 
Like Thunder said if belt, labor, tensioner and water pump are all included then 400 is a fair price... If they are not I would take my business elsewhere. I also would try to get the mechanic to give you all a break on price since he is the one that got her to buy it. However that being said no one ever knows when a belt will go so I am sure he had no clue it was going to happen.
 
seems to me like the mechanic knew something was wrong so he said its good so that she'd buy it and he could make money off her. id kick his arse to give you a good deal or find someone else. seen it happen before, guy in town was ran out of business becuase he was doing crap work and recommending crap cars to buy.
 
I don't think you want to argue with me on this one. Been doing these heads for 21 years and they ARE intereference engines. Now depending on what speed the engine was turning you "might" get lucky and not bend valves.

Thunder, my dad owns a 94 tracer wagon with the 1.9 and he lost the belt and it IS an interference engine i will guarantee you that.
 
I aint going to argue with you on that one Scott. I know you build engines, and know your stuff. I trust you more than I would a ford tech. IIRC they told me the engine was redesigned in 1991 and it usually did not bend the valves if the belt breaks.
I thought that strange because most all 4 cyl i have seen are interference engines.
But hey It must have been one of fords "Better Ideas" LOL.
Anyhow I hope Dabba gets lucky like my friend did, and it is only the belt.

I just finished a broken timing belt job on a 4 cyl. Bent 16 of the 20 valves. 1 stinking Rebuilt head cost me $800, Plus the belt kit, waterpump, gaskets, ect. Thank God it happend at very low RPM with no Boost. There was no piston damage
It was definatly an interference engine. LOL!
 
no expert here, but if it is an interference motor, you probably did bend something.

Expert who touches these motors all the time says it is. I will take his word for it as well.

Buying any used car always has the possibility of stuff breaking- and timing belts on interference motors is usually "part of the routine"- that is, if the P.O. doesnt include papers, assume the belt has not been done.

On a tracer, I would cut your losses and find another car. The book value on the car is so low, you can get yourself a nice reliable honda or toyota for about 1500. Dont mess with the tracer, unless you love that car for some reason. If your going to spend 400 on anything, you should probably spend it on another car.

I sold my 1996 honda with 180k on it, for 1900. And it was a good solid car, I put on 30k on it in one year, I changed a CV on it, and that was about it. I did put on new brakes and pads before I sold it, which was silly, but...
 
hondas for even 2k around here are impossible to get unless they have super high mileage. I wanted her to get a nissan pathfinder or izuzu rodeo, or some sort of car that wasnt a ford. Im not sure about cars much anymore with all the makers out there. I just know ford sucks.
 
4X4HIGH said:
I don't think you want to argue with me on this one. Been doing these heads for 21 years and they ARE intereference engines. Now depending on what speed the engine was turning you "might" get lucky and not bend valves.

Thunder, my dad owns a 94 tracer wagon with the 1.9 and he lost the belt and it IS an interference engine i will guarantee you that.
Click to expand...

Maybe they changed something between 91 and 94. I've done my 1.9 in my Tracer enough times to know it is not an interference engine...

Here's something from AllData:
INSPECTION
See Figures 1 through 8
The engine in your Escort/Tracer utilizes a timing belt to drive the camshaft from the crankshaft's turning motion, and to maintain proper valve timing. Some manufacturers recommend periodic timing belt replacement to assure optimum engine performance, and to make sure the motorist is never stranded should the belt break (as the engine will stop instantly). On some vehicles (those with "interference" engines), this is especially important to prevent the possibility of severe internal engine damage, should the belt break.
Although the engines covered by this guide are not listed as interference types (engines whose valves might contact the pistons if the camshaft rotates separately from the crankshaft), the first 2 reasons for periodic replacement still apply. Ford specifies that the timing belt on the 1.8L engine should be replaced every 60,000 miles (96,000 km) and inspected every 30,000 miles (48,000 km) after that. Although Ford does not publish a replacement interval for the 1.9L and 2.0L engines, most belt manufacturers recommend intervals anywhere from 45,000 miles (72,500 km) to 90,000 miles (145,000 km). You will have to decide for yourself if the peace of mind offered by a new belt is worth the effort and expense on higher mileage engines.
Whether or not you do decide to replace the timing belt, you would be wise to check it periodically to make sure it has not become damaged or worn. Generally speaking, a severely worn belt may cause engine performance to drop dramatically, but a damaged belt (which could give out suddenly) may not give as much warning. In general, any time the engine timing cover(s) is (are) removed, you should inspect the belt for premature parting, severe cracks or missing teeth. Also, an access plug may be provided in the upper portion of the timing cover, so that camshaft timing can be checked without cover removal. If timing is found to be off, cover removal and further belt inspection or replacement is necessary.
 
noJeepshere said:
seems to me like the mechanic knew something was wrong so he said its good so that she'd buy it and he could make money off her. id kick his arse to give you a good deal or find someone else. seen it happen before, guy in town was ran out of business becuase he was doing crap work and recommending crap cars to buy.
Click to expand...

I would bet the mechanic didn't inspect the belt, it's not something I would do. If I take it down far enough to inspect the belt, the belt is getting changed. There isn't a mechanic out there that can honestly tell you that the belt will last for the next 5 minutes with 100% accuracy. A belt can look perfectly fine and break without warning.

Now, if the car had 80k and the belt had never been changed, I'd have recommended replacing the belt...
 
i still wanna say the 1.9 is not an interference engine:confused: Im sure ive replaced belts on them 1 or 2 times now in the shop and verified it twice im lost
 
MTChevy said:
i still wanna say the 1.9 is not an interference engine:confused: Im sure ive replaced belts on them 1 or 2 times now in the shop and verified it twice im lost
Click to expand...

maybe it wasnt the 1.9... i am really really curious now
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest Posts

Top Bottom