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Issues with Big red! Cooling 220+ temp had to shut down...

Metrodps

Metrodps

Strange but nice guy
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Big Red had a break down and after two hours got towed in by a 6cy Ford Ranger for about four miles. So just sit right back and you'll hear the tale of no good dead goes unpunished! Today is my grumpy landlord's birthday and the other day he said he was wanting some ice cream. So I thought I would be nice and do a kind jester to maybe make him feel better.

I said "red has a full tank of gas and it is only 12 miles to n fro. So off I go; I am in the Family dollar and see liquid coming from the front area and rush out side. I get the hood open and see liquid coming from the pit cock area. Yea anti-freeze; so I check the PC and it was lose. Turned it a half turn. Go back in get his ice cream and a gallon of distilled water. Added a half gallon and head out in two miles the temp is up to almost 250 and the yellow (check engine) led is on.

I get to where I can pull off and it is bubbling fan was turning top rad hose hot however no heat coming out heater and the two hoses were not even warm!

A 120 cars later and two call to the SLC and Palisades brain trust; a deputy goes by and then comes back. He helped me get the radiator cap off (I am to weak to push it for the last release). As soon as we open it water just streamed out on the LH (drivers) side. I put the other half in and got about 3/4 mile before I had to shut her down again.

So the woman who loaned me the money for the Crew Cab and her daughter saw Red and me sitting it and turned around. We hooked up my 10 foot strap (Ohhh pucker factor 10). She pulled me with their Ranger (2x4) to the switch back for my area. I fired up red and drove it on in.

So Dave and I talked and we both kind of think the water pump is not getting water through the block. Thoughts comments

I get one step ahead on the CC and now Red throws a tantrum (typical red head).

So to recap drove it 180 miles since it came back from SLC pick up. During that time we drove it off road with Mr & Mrs Campfire then parked it.

Drove it and had the issue.
Temp gauge went up
No heat coming from vents when set to (to help pull heat off)
Made bubbling noise in rad over flow bottle
Heater houses NOT even warm
Top radiator hose Hot (as in oh shiz)
Heated in about 3/4s of a mile

New water pump, new thermostat, new radiator when Cole did motor.
 
Well that sucks and sorry to hear it. Not much to a cooling system, my guess thermostat stuck or is just bad, 2nd guess would be that water pump. Maybe even the fan clutch went south, New don't always mean good or working. We wont even talk about the saving pull from a ranger.
 
When was the last time the radiator cap was changed? Bleeding out the petcock and bubbling into the overflow makes me think it may not be working properly. It won't cause overheating, but it should vent before it starts pushing coolant out of other fittings. Additionally, since you have strength issues and may have to deal with the cap again anyway, I'd recommend the Stant lev-r-vent (random one I found to show you what they look like) www.amazon.com/Stant-10331-Lev-R-Vent-Radiator-Cap/dp/B000B8LKZ0 as IIRC, once you lift the lever, you can remove the cap without force. Not a big fan of stant stuff, but generally it seems to work, and for your use it may be the best option out there.

Unlikely the pump is bad. The only thing that normally fails is the seal, and the pump weeps, but still moves coolant fine. The impeller is a press fit on the shaft. If the belt is turning the pump (and I assume the pump is relatively new anyway?), it's almost certainly working.

Thermostat would be my take on this problem as well, but I feel something else is up if the heater hoses are cold and the upper hose is hot. Once cold, and relatively full of coolant, with the cap off, start it and look for bubbles in the coolant.
 
Sorry to flat out contradict @dyeager535 , but it is possible for the pump to be bad.
I have had it happen, no leaking , just very bad water flow.
It was a brand new NAPA unit. I also had one cause problems on a big diesel.
So I advised that the pump could have started having problems. Obviously he has to make sure that the cooling system is full and that the radiator is not leaking.
 
I was going to mention the pump possibly being a counter-rotating unit (for TBI), but didn't see any indication this was a problem since new.

Obviously anything mechanical can fail, but if it was working properly initially, failure to flow properly at some later point would seem to be incredibly unlikely.

I see three failure points that would relate to flow in the below picture: impeller not turning from loose belt or turning the reverse of design, impeller press fit on shaft not correct, and impeller vanes rotting off. It would take some time for the vanes to rot off.

350-wpinside.jpg


Only test I can think of for water pump is to look at coolant flow under the radiator cap, and honestly I don't believe that is a real valid test since it's pretty much a guess if it's enough or not. My experience is you get a face full of coolant before you can tell anything that way. :)

Also, if the hose(s) are hard, the system is pressurized..."collapsing hoses" are not going to be an issue with ~16PSI behind them.
 
The fan was turning and I could turn it by hand when off. Ok so it looks like I'll need to get a lever rad cap (forgot about them), thermostat, gasket, rtv and just use water to check if that is issue. If the it don't heat up and radiator is not cracked drain it and fill it with a couple jugs of antifreeze.
39468.jpg

Frack!
 
The impeller can start spinning on the shaft.
It could have been holding, but then start slipping. (Heat and use)

There can also be bypassing of water between the impeller and the pump housing and backing plate. This is probably not the case here since it didn't have the problem from day one. This also should be true for incorrect rotation.
 
Lawrence, this sounds like you may have had a coolant leak and then you ran low on coolant, which lead to overheating.

Are you sure that you're not just losing coolant rapidly?

If you lost 1/2 a gallon in 2 miles, I'd start by figuring that part out. It may be that nothing else is wrong. :dunno:

Even if something else is wrong, this surely isn't helping.
 
Strange to have both trucks running into overheating issues at the same time. Especially in your fairly cool region. :doah:

Did you get the aux. fan working on the CC yet?
 
6872xtc said:
The impeller can start spinning on the shaft.
It could have been holding, but then start slipping. (Heat and use)

There can also be bypassing of water between the impeller and the pump housing and backing plate. This is probably not the case here since it didn't have the problem from day one. This also should be true for incorrect rotation.
Click to expand...
Total milage on motor 1,200 (I think) not much went from Cole to Riley in SLC then to Ouary and three times to Montrose (120 miles) then the 180 with campfire. Well it will run to load it. So after the the first of the year and before May I'll figure it out. I have to focus on the Crew Cab and if that flounders any longer (by sept) and I don't have box or money to pay paint them I'll turn to sorting out red. Always something right.
Thanks guys
 
Add water(cheap) and find out if you have a leak. With the rad cap off, and coolant low it should be pretty obvious if the water pump is working or not.

I would start there.
 
campfire said:
Strange to have both trucks running into overheating issues at the same time. Especially in your fairly cool region. :doah:

Did you get the aux. fan working on the CC yet?
Click to expand...
Heating issues are very common here. Combination of lower power/efficiency, load caused by elevation change, and decreased cooling efficiency due to the air being so thin.

You wouldn't think it, but it's true
 
campfire said:
Lawrence, this sounds like you may have had a coolant leak and then you ran low on coolant, which lead to overheating.

Are you sure that you're not just losing coolant rapidly?

If you lost 1/2 a gallon in 2 miles, I'd start by figuring that part out. It may be that nothing else is wrong. :dunno:

Even if something else is wrong, this surely isn't helping.
Click to expand...

Yes, I did say that earlier, but again, start with finding the leak.
 
bent72 said:
Heating issues are very common here. Combination of lower power/efficiency, load caused by elevation change, and decreased cooling efficiency due to the air being so thin.

You wouldn't think it, but it's true
Click to expand...

Interesting. It does make sense, and it squares with my experiences overheating my way through the Rockies when I was a kid. It's just another thing that this flatlander didn't think of...my body said it was downright freezing up there in my cold tent (think it was 39* one night and 45* the other, IIRC). Still overheated the CC heading up into the mountains.
 
Lawrence, I have had two personal water pump failures and saw another one that could cause your symptoms. One, the impeller fell completely off. Not sure why, it was a rebuilt, and had few miles on it.
Both the shaft and the impeller looked fine, and the impeller would even fit fairly tightly back on the shaft.
I'm guessing it got looser when hot.
The water pump spun fine, and did not leak a drop.
However, the pulleys on the V belt were not exactly aligned, and the pump shaft would "walk" out slightly and let the fan tick the radiator. That was my first clue I had a problem. Even before the temp gauge started rising.

The second one, was more common. And is not as likely to be yours. The blades had just rotted off the pump.

The third one, is almost certainly not your problem. That pump did not pump properly right out of the box. Turned out the rebuilder had put the wrong impeller on the pump.
Part number was correct, everything fit, but it would not pump. You could put that one and another rebuilt side by side, and they were identical except for the impeller.

To be honest, your symptoms sound like low coolant. I don't think those engines are prone to air blockages, but just in case, you might take the heater hose off the block and see if any coolant runs out when its cool.
 
Metrodps said:
The fan was turning and I could turn it by hand when off. Ok so it looks like I'll need to get a lever rad cap (forgot about them), thermostat, gasket, rtv and just use water to check if that is issue. If the it don't heat up and radiator is not cracked drain it and fill it with a couple jugs of antifreeze.
39468.jpg

Frack!
Click to expand...

Do you mean the cooling fan turns by itself when off? I had thought the clutch should hold it still when the engine is off. But I'm probably not up to speed on the engine details since the swap.
 
Well he I is talking about the fan clutch.

But Lawrence just called me and he went to get parts, driving the crewcab. A deer ran out in front of him and he tried to avoid it.

He is now waiting for the patrol and a wrecker as the front axle is torn loose and the frame is bent.

He is having a terrible week.
 
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