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*it runs! but.....new cam and heads in 350 sounds good in park but no power*it runs!*

38377k5 said:
Not a chance the motor would run if the distributor were 180* out. Backfire, sure, but it wouldn't run.
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i hate to disagree.... but ive done it. car idled like crap, and when you touched the throttle it would misfire and shoot a fireball through the throttle body. car was a 1989 Camaro RS with the TBI 305........... i think it was 180 out.. crap it was so long ago, maybe i just had something hooked up backwards now that i think about it..... there were two connectors for the control module... maybe i had those backwardss...... crap, nevermind ignore me.
 
Well Its not very often but it is possible I had a 79 chevy pickup that I had the distributror 180 off and it ran obviously really horrible but it ran flipped it and it ran like a dream. The quickest way to check is pull the number one plug put your finger over the plug hole and bump the starter till you feel it reach the commpression stroke and that will be tdc then obviously pull the distributor and line it up, but you may be just a couple teeth off, as far as the cam they are alot tougher than you think, I dont think you messed it up.
 
well thats good to hear bout the cam...well i just checked the wires for the 4th time and tried starting it at 12* it stumbled for a min..long enug to get the timing lite on it to see what it was at.. but the only way i can start it is holding the throttle wide open till it kicks over....then i can only keep it running at wide open i can try mid throttle and it will run for a little bit.....i think its the valves..cuz when i go to start it, it sounds like its flooded and when it dies it sounds like its flooding...like as if the valves arent closing all the way and its just there just filling up with fuel, but if i advance ti like way up there, off the gauge it will idle and sound fine....in park......but it does ping tho........if it was 180 off or a couple teeth off wouldnt i not be able to see timing mark on the gauge? when i pop the dist. cap and look at the rotor with the timing mark on 0* it looks exaclty were it should be...but now that i think about it i had my buddy spoting the timing mark as i turned the engine and i dont remember checkin if it was dead on zero:doah:...but i did point to the zero mark and it is marked with blue paint....so it has to be close...ill double check when the rain lets up... could it still be the valves even thos it sounds good in park with it advance like a mofo...but still run like crap in gear? could the valves still be to tight in this case?
 
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I got to ask. What is the significance of holding the RPMs at 2000 rpms on a new cam? Oil pressure? Most cams come with assembly lube for the initial start up. Seems strange to me I guess I don't see what this does.
 
it has to do with the oil pressure yes, apparently at an idle there isnt enough oil being thrown around.
 
HurricaneRacing said:
Well Its not very often but it is possible I had a 79 chevy pickup that I had the distributror 180 off and it ran obviously really horrible but it ran flipped it and it ran like a dream. The quickest way to check is pull the number one plug put your finger over the plug hole and bump the starter till you feel it reach the commpression stroke and that will be tdc then obviously pull the distributor and line it up, but you may be just a couple teeth off, as far as the cam they are alot tougher than you think, I dont think you messed it up.
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You obviously haven't wiped the cam YET...but make no mistake those first few minutes are very critical. What it might have done is not set a pattern between the lifters and the lobes....this is critical to allow the lifters to turn in their bores, allowing even and minimal wear over time. Without this mating to the lobe, and lots of oil being splashed on the lobes from higher rpm while first run, it allows the lobes to wear quicker than desired, like say a few thousand miles, instead of 100K miles. Also best to use a oil NOT RATED SL, OR SM. These oils do not have the zinc content in sufficient quantity any more which really protects these metal to metal surfaces under high pressures. Use an oil with a high zinc content like a heavy truck oil.
Talk with 4x4bygod about oils
 
dam i dont get it......i go out to bump starter to get it close to TDC and it fires up...and runs and sounds good for a second or 2 then back fires out of carb and dies and it just keeps this up....when yesterday it wouldnt start unless i hold the throttle wide open and crank it..and i havent moved the timing off 12*...???????????im so confused...and i think my altanator stoped working..
 
dont suppose youve got a diff dizzy layin around you could try? its worth a shot anyway. but it does sound like the timing is off in some way shape or form. are you 100% positive the cam is in right??? might be worth popping the timing cover off and making sure the dots line up.

have you checked fuel pressure?

will the vehicle run on carb cleaner? in other words, can you crank it get it fired up, and then sustain the engine on a can of carb cleaner being sprayed strait into the carb from above.
 
if the fuel pressure was a issue would it be do to not enough fuel or to much fuel? its a brand new fuel pump
 
my guess would be too little fuel. especially when you say that it will start up, run, and then backfire and sputter out and die. sounds like the fuel bowls are draining. or using up fuel faster than its being refilled.

i have no idea what too much fuel pressure would do to a carb'd setup.
 
down4thakrown said:
dam i dont get it......i go out to bump starter to get it close to TDC and it fires up...and runs and sounds good for a second or 2 then back fires out of carb and dies and it just keeps this up....when yesterday it wouldnt start unless i hold the throttle wide open and crank it..and i havent moved the timing off 12*...???????????im so confused...and i think my altanator stoped working..
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i guess i mite have moved the started when putin the tarp on or takin it off...cuz now at 12* it only says runing when the throttle it applied and its barely runing.....and to get it started i have to advance it off the gauge hold the throttel and slowy retard the timing...i took the dist out and tryed to set it back a tooth but the rotor ended up between number 1 and 2 cylinder then it just goes back to were it was when moving oil pump slot.....and when i start it with the timing advanced it back fires out of the carb sumtimes, then runs smooth and idles smooth....
 
well tried new distributor not that....checked the valves..they feel good....can get to run and idle at 12* with out the vacuum advanced hooked up...runs and sounds good in park still at 12* but wont move in gear...still shoots flames out of carb...goin to try new metering rod springs in carb..but napa and checkers dont have any in stock and nobody else in town carries them..
 
Are you sure you lined up the marks on the timing sprockets correctly?
did the crank sprocket have more than one key way slot?
 
i didnt put the cam in...the shop did...but thats what its starting to sound like now....i cant think of anything else it could be...ive tried everything...
 
tried runing a wire straight from battery to distributor....nope didnt work ethier.....guess the only thing left to do is pull timing chain cover to check if dots line up on cam....unless anybody else has any other suggestions.....?????????
 
Do you have the correct timing cover to match your Harmonic balancer? do you know for sure if when it says your at TDC, it is truly TDC?
 
Did you adjust the Valves? It sounds to me like you have a intake or 2 too tight. When the engine is off the lifters push the oil out since it has spring pressure on it all the time. Once you start the engine everything warms up and it starts to hold the valves open. This is where the back firing up the intake comes in. First do a compression check, then reajust your valves, then set the time at at least 12 WITHOUT the vac advance hooked up. Rich will not do the problems you have with backfiring.
 
ya checkd the valves..they all when they where off the lobe they would wiggle back in fwd...like no tension on them....im starting to think that the cam sprockets werent lined up right....about it being on tdc..i held my finger in spark plug hole # 1 and when its on its way to 0 i feel the pressure from the piston goin up...........
 
76zimmer said:
Do you have the correct timing cover to match your Harmonic balancer? do you know for sure if when it says your at TDC, it is truly TDC?
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Been there and done that by accident ( just forgot when I put the covers and balancers on ) :laugh:

If the cover has the mark on the center of the cover and not the side , and you use that balancer with a shiny new side timing mark cover , and you set the timing by that , it will be waaaaaaay over to the passenger side when running with manifold vacuum .
 
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