LoMax 3:1 Np205

[6.2Blazer]

To be honest I'm not really sure why you would want OD in the t-case UNLESS you were stuck with Rockwells or 'Mogs that only had obscenely low gear ratios available to begin with.

If you had "regular" axles like a D60, 14-bolt, etc.. with normal ratios available (3.73, 4.10,....) why would you install axle gears that were really too low for comfortable highway cruising and THEN counteract it with an OD transfer case?? Keep in mind we are talking about t-cases with an available low range in the 5:1-ish area, so not like the overall lowrange ratio will be hurting.

As already touched upon, an issue with running OD in a t-case is that you no longer have the benefit of running a direct-drive high range (1:1) that most modern cases offer, and therefore have more drag and wear components to deal with. You would most likely also have a 3rd set of gears (OD, 1st low range, 2nd low range) versus two gear sets (1st low, 2nd low.....direct drive high so no gearset). Of course that's assuming they can't use the existing low range gear combos to get OD.

 

[marv_springer]

To be honest I'm not really sure why you would want OD in the t-case UNLESS you were stuck with Rockwells or 'Mogs that only had obscenely low gear ratios available to begin with.

You got it.... For the guys who have already "geared to the hilt" w/ 6.xx or 7.xx gears - and can't go down the hiway.

Marv

 

[Greg72]

yeah, but if you want a shallower angle on your front shaft, a long case would be a good thing. I'm going doubler... if I ever want more gear I'm gonna do the WMS 3:1s in the range box. 1:1, 2:1, 3:1, 6:1 = bad azz. Rear driveshaft angle isn't going to change much... I'm gonna run 56s out back so the rear end will be 4" further to the rear anyway.

j

My current thinking has me wanting to set the entire drivetrain back further than stock, and that will never happen with my 107"WB (stretched from 104"). Plans to use a T56 tranny means I'm already penalized from a length perspective. The Stak box could help me to reclaim some of those precious inches.

At this point, I've got a zero-mile WMS 3.1 box to sell (or re-deploy in another vehicle) as well as a zero-mile F*rd Style ORD Doubler that I also probably won't be using.....DAMN! This is the SECOND time I've bought an ORD Doubler and changed my plans before I could actually install and use it!!!

Completely changing directions during a build sure gets EXPENSIVE.....

 

[marv_springer]

My current thinking has me wanting to set the entire drivetrain back further than stock, and that will never happen with my 107"WB (stretched from 104"). Plans to use a T56 tranny means I'm already penalized from a length perspective. The Stak box could help me to reclaim some of those precious inches.

Yeup.... this will ultimately get you in the "short d-shaft" zone w/ a Doubler.

For Comparison:

My FunBuggy runs 110" WB. The crankshaft engine pulley is right above the front axle. IIRC the rear shaft measures 30", and the front measures 44". At this point the rear almost gets into angle troubles and the front hangs down so low you really gotta be careful not to ding it....

At this point, I've got a zero-mile WMS 3.1 box to sell (or re-deploy in another vehicle) as well as a zero-mile F*rd Style ORD Doubler that I also probably won't be using.....DAMN! This is the SECOND time I've bought an ORD Doubler and changed my plans before I could actually install and use it!!!

You'll have no problem getting rid of these parts.....

Marv

 

[micah]

I run a Klune/205 setup which is basically the same dimensions as my stock np208. after having pushed the rear axle back 4 inches (56's) and the front axle forward 2 inches (52's) my driveshafts are pretty much the same length (can be seen in the pic below... or on this page. The gearing choices are still there too... 1.96:1, 2.72:1, 5.33:1

the combo is a bit lighter than a 203/205 doubler too. having the 3 speeds comes in more handy that one would think. with the 42's its great to be able to run around in 2 to 1 on the trail, until an obstacle comes up where a little more would be nice (ie. going to the 2.72:1 option)... of course you can't help but look forward to anytime an obstacle proves to be worthy of the 5.33:1


click for full size...

 

[BowtieBlazer]

To be honest I'm not really sure why you would want OD in the t-case UNLESS you were stuck with Rockwells or 'Mogs that only had obscenely low gear ratios available to begin with.

Diesel, the 6.2 not so much but the 4bt I'm installing doesn't like and is rev limited to 2500rpm's.(why change that?) I'm wanting to stay streetable with 35's but with 4.65 cucv axles its gonna be a bit more difficult to do much interstate with optimal mileage, this motor likes 1800 rpms. With the stak I can run around town with optimal mileage and when I know a interstate cruise is in my future I use the OD and the 4 speed. Offroad the torque of the motor and even light gearing will do the trick.

Especially being that its so close to a 205 in size, if I set it all up with the 205 it should be damn near a bolt in when its all said and done.

 

[grimjaw]

From STAK's Forums:

Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:29 pm Post subject: Overdrive STaK will be showing the new Overdrive Monster box at the Offroad Expo in Pamona in Octeber.
The overdrive is the same as the normal Monster box in all respects, except for the new gear ratio.
1:1 - 0.79:1 - 4.33:1
They should be available in November or December



Overdrive and Deep gears...sounds like a good plan for Th400s and SM465s.

 

[jekbrown]

oh ok, I didn't know the OD "stole" one of the low range gears away. thanks for the clarification.

j

 

[BadDog]

2 "gears" (actually gear ratios other than 1:1) and direct drive, that's all there is...

I don't know if I could do that. 2:1 is just to "right" for so much of the mild stuff and "trail riding". Like everything else though, it's a trade-off. But I would love to have one of the current Staks if I didn't already have a doubler.

 

[jekbrown]

yeppers. I think a built-in OD would be cooler on a 4-speed Atlas or something. Seems like 2 low ranges is enough for most people... one for typical trail stuff... one for technical rocky stuff. With 4 speeds there would be "room" for an OD without infringing to much on the low stuff.

j

 

[6.2Blazer]

Diesel, the 6.2 not so much but the 4bt I'm installing doesn't like and is rev limited to 2500rpm's.(why change that?) I'm wanting to stay streetable with 35's but with 4.65 cucv axles its gonna be a bit more difficult to do much interstate with optimal mileage, this motor likes 1800 rpms. With the stak I can run around town with optimal mileage and when I know a interstate cruise is in my future I use the OD and the 4 speed. Offroad the torque of the motor and even light gearing will do the trick.

Especially being that its so close to a 205 in size, if I set it all up with the 205 it should be damn near a bolt in when its all said and done.

I understand where you are coming from, but that's a lot of money to spend (STAK t-case) to correct for highway driving especially if you really don't need the extra low range. Don't get me wrong as it sounds like a cool project, but your drivetrain just doesn't match up ("only" 35's, 1-tons w/ 4.56's, and a very low revving engine) and you are worried about highway driving.

In anycase this is another example of an unusual setup (most people don't run 4BT's, 'rocks, 'mogs.......much less do these people, mainly the axle guys, worry about highway driving). So let me clarify my point, I don't understand why anybody with a half-way convential engine and axle setup would need an OD in the t-case. Even if you have 'rocks or 'mogs do you really need 65+mph capability on the freeway?

 

[Greg72]

I understand where you are coming from, but that's a lot of money to spend (STAK t-case) to correct for highway driving ?

Have you priced the alternatives for getting an OD and deep crawl ratios? A built 4L80E isn't cheap, especially with the standalone computer....Throw a GearVendors overdrive at the end of your driveline setup (if you have room) instead, but it's still a $2000+ solution. Maybe some beefy variant of a 700R4 or a 200-4R tranny??....but the built stuff from a reputable shop is going to be a couple grand for either of those ....Even in those cases, you still need the Doubler, so add those costs into the mix......suddenly $2800 doesn't seem "expensive" anymore.

Even if you have 'rocks or 'mogs do you really need 65+mph capability on the freeway?

Yes, I do.

 

[6.2Blazer]

Have you priced the alternatives for getting an OD and deep crawl ratios? A built 4L80E isn't cheap, especially with the standalone computer....Throw a GearVendors overdrive at the end of your driveline setup (if you have room) instead, but it's still a $2000+ solution. Maybe some beefy variant of a 700R4 or a 200-4R tranny??....but the built stuff from a reputable shop is going to be a couple grand for either of those ....Even in those cases, you still need the Doubler, so add those costs into the mix......suddenly $2800 doesn't seem "expensive" anymore.




Yes, I do.

Creative quoting of my words ..............I believe you forgot the part where I said "especially if you really don't need the extra low range".

Another point, if your axle gearing is SOOO low that an OD is required to make it streetable, then why do you need a super-duper low range in the t-case? Well, besides for the bling factor and web-wheeling spec sheet

 

[Greg72]

Creative quoting of my words ..............I believe you forgot the part where I said "especially if you really don't need the extra low range".

Another point, if your axle gearing is SOOO low that an OD is required to make it streetable, then why do you need a super-duper low range in the t-case? Well, besides for the bling factor and web-wheeling spec sheet

Well, I've been running the numbers for a long time....and the options are really limited. The problem starts with the 7.56 gears in the 'Mogs....

...then add a 38" tire (not a 44" or 49") and the ability to run at anything nearing highway speeds becomes nearly impossible.

I took a look at the "Backwards 203" option that was used in "The Hulk" (K5 on Mogs) where you effectively create a .50:1 overdrive by running a 203 backwards. The problem is trying to fit that behind a Doubler setup in 104" of wheelbase.

Then, took a look at a T56 6-speed tranny. It has a sexy .50:1 6th Gear ratio, but unfortunately when you choose that gear cluster for 6th, you only get something like ~2.80:1 1st Gear (and no stall converter effects since it's a manual)...that really hurts the crawl ratio. Unfortunately, because of the axle/tire combo a simpler .70:1 overdrive won't get the revs low enough for a BBC trying for a 65-70mph cruising speed.

Using a 3.1:1 WMS box with a 205 (and the T56) got me in the neighborhood of 130:1 crawl, which is quite good but certainly not "excessive" in terms of useable crawl.

I'd love to hear someone else's idea on how to get low highway RPMs with Mogs on 38's and still be able to fit the whole driveline into a relatively short Blazer (without going to a V-drive setup! ). I've tried every combo I can dream up and so far the best I've found is the T56/Stak/Mog setup....

 

[6.2Blazer]

700r4, 241 combo would be perfect for you!

OD gear would effectively change the cruising ratio to 5.29........not exactly optimum for daily driving but should let the truck at least run a reasonable speed on the road with 38's.

Overall lowrange ratio would be 63:1 which is quite low for an auto trans setup?

 

[Greg72]

700r4, 241 combo would be perfect for you!

OD gear would effectively change the cruising ratio to 5.29........not exactly optimum for daily driving but should let the truck at least run a reasonable speed on the road with 38's.

Overall lowrange ratio would be 63:1 which is quite low for an auto trans setup?

Well for starters, the front output is on the wrong side for Mog axles.....and your combo spins about 1000RPMs higher at highway speeds....that's not trivial, especially with a BBC.

I also don't think your combo can be twin-sticked....


There are no simple answers...

 

[bigjbear]

241s can be had with the drop on either side. Doesn't help the RPM's, though.

 

[basing110]

micah what model klune did you use and how much did it run you ?

 

[BowtieBlazer]

Well the reason 35's and the ratio don't match up is because that is the most I personally am willing to run onroad, carry as a spare, or pay for replacements from year to year. I do plan on running 37's offroad.
You're right that this rig is an exception, its not factory, and for those who don't a 4bt is just that a 4 cylinder turbo charged diesel, that makes exceptional mileage, and is marketed as a medium to heavy duty motor and can carry up to a 14kGVW I am going to use gearing to really pep-up the city driving although its not necessary but a plus, only IF I know that in the long run my choice of not regearing isn't going to bite me in the ass when it comes to road trips. Since very few have driven a 4bt in a non P-series civillian rig you'll just have to take my word for it.

On top of that how does paying for a NV4500 instead of the stak case fix my problem, well it gives me OD but then I fall into special fluids and a 5th gear nut that needs to be fixed = rebuild...why not auto overdrive? they just won't hold behind this motor at times cummings released info about beefing up the TH400 for this motor (yes you read that right)
With the NV4500 I'm looking at $1500 or so....I already own a good 465 and it is bullet proof, i didn't mind the long throw behind the crate 350 and I won't behind this motor either, resting with piece of mind that when I decide to take those cross country trips all I really need is gear oil, for the axles, tranny and t-case....hey if that 465 goes out, another one is a couple hundred bucks?

All in all i'm working with what I have, I don't think its right for everyone and I don't expect to buy the stak for another year or so...Like I said being a near bolt up in my app it will do just fine...and for now I can run what I already own.

I'm not looking for low range all the time I'm looking for rigid reliability, starting with the motor, had i paid $5000 for it i might be in the hole but I sourced mine out for very cheap.

 

[mini_mull]

Even if you have 'rocks or 'mogs do you really need 65+mph capability on the freeway?

Is anyone around here ever concerned with what they "need"? Isn't it more like what we want or could possibly create that would be better or tougher? BTW, good thread, the more tech the better, keep it coming.