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LS Baby Power Packages - Dyno Proven

Team208Motorsports

Its Magic Bitch
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We are proud to announce our LS Cam and Power Packages. We have spent countless hours nailing down the math on these engines, which allows us to squeeze every bit of power we can out of a stock head. I'll let the power numbers speak for themselves.

To get things going we started with a 125K mile LQ4 6.0 out of a 2003 pickup. This engine is supposed to make 300 HP and 360 lb-ft of torque.

Stock GM Rating
engine_performance-L.jpg



We know with a good tune these engines wake up but then you push the limits of the stock intake, injectors and valve springs. To remedy this we added a Trailblazer SS intake, 92mm Throttle Body, 36# injectors, and yellow GM valve springs. Not to mention a KILLER TUNE. This brought the 300 HP LQ4 to 421 HP and 444 lb-ft of torque on the stock cam. Thats killer but the problem with the stock cam is you begin to fall off with TQ at 4300 rpm. Check out Pull 3.

To remedy that our Baby cam was drawn up. We knew the 317, 243 and 799 cathedral port heads could only flow so much without porting. The Baby cam was designed to push them to that. With the Baby cam package, "cam, springs, retainers, locks, pushrods", in the same engine we hit 460 HP and 460 lb-ft of torque. Torque only fell off as the heads ran out of air. Check Pull 5.

IMG_0773-L.jpg


That beats LS3 HP and Torque! With head porting and a compression bump you could easily add 5-10% to those numbers. 5.3 guys we have numbers for you as well. The 5.3 with the Baby cam hit 415 HP and 410 lb-ft of torque.

For you guys that want higher compression, better heads, and or stroker the Big Baby cam is following right behind. Just to verify we ran the Big Baby in our setup above and, as expected, it chocked out at 5k, where it was still making 450 hp and 450 lb-ft. It peaked at 470 hp and 460 lb-ft. This cam will be an animal with proper air flow. We will reconfigure and run this cam again with ported heads and 10.5 - 11 to 1 compression. We will beat 500 hp.... easy. Until then I'm not promising anything and I will post numbers good or bad.

L92 Heads are drawn up and the math is there. They will be run in the next month or two. Our goal is to make the most out of a stock setup/stock parts. Most guys don't have $8k-$15k to spend on an engine. Look what you can do with a junk yard engine, junk yard parts and a WELL designed cam!

For those of you who will question these numbers, everything was done on a digital SuperFlow engine dyno that is calibrated every 2-3 engines. You are free to contact the Dyno Shop for any authenticity requests. (208) 466-7005. The Dyno Shop is the actual name of the shop.

IMG_0770-L.jpg


EDIT
So I am getting some confusion reports.

Pull 3 on the chart is the STOCK cam with better valve springs.

Pull 5 is the BABY cam with the valve springs and push rods to match it.

YES, Pull 3 made that power with the STOCK cam.

EDIT - Pricing

Alright. I have numbers crunched for the Baby Cam Packages.

Package 1 - Baby Cam - 460hp 460 lb-ft - $1400
**You must source your own 1.8 ratio rockers to get the power stated - Summit SUM-G6981 is a good budget set**

Kit includes
Baby Cam
Valve Spring Kit - Springs, Seals, Locks, Locators, Retainers
Moly .080 5/16 Push Rods
ECM Tune



Package 2 - Baby Cam - 460hp 460 lb-ft - $1850

Kit Includes
Yella Terra 1.8 Shaft Mounted Ultralite Rockers
Baby Cam
Valve Spring Kit - Springs, Seals, Locks, Locators, Retainers
Moly .080 5/16 Push Rods
ECM Tune


You will notice there are not LS7 lifters... They are not needed with this cam, so there is no extra hidden cost of head gaskets and head bolts.

Depending on motor condition you may need a timing chain set or you may not. We ran our test engine with the 125k mile timing set through all our dyno pulls.

This package is for Cathedral Port Heads ONLY. If you have L92s or you plan on a stroker let me know. Other cams are shortly behind.



We have a new package. This one is the Big Baby. Same LQ4 base. I'll have specs up very soon.

Till then, the test engine got used this weekend. Rig is an S10 based mud truck and the sled is about 12k......

Big Baby Video Click
 
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I can not stress enough that you have to have the correct size injectors if you want to make the power. With the Baby Cam on a 6.0 with 317 heads you need 36lb injectors. They were running at 31 lbs with full load at 12.5 - 1 AFR. That puts them at 85% duty cycle. Thats not bad. Now you tell me how other guys are claiming to do the same with 24 and 26 lb injectors..... You can't.

Here is a very useful tool I put together a few years ago. Its an airflow and fuel calculator for gas and diesel all based off simple math. When we were at Havoc I built Montpas' entire fuel table with this due to him having sensor issues and replacement parts were not available. If you have a good understanding of cam efficiency this table works amazingly well. It also backs up my fuel flow I was seeing on the dyno and the fuel flow from the VE table.

Screen%20Shot%202015-07-01%20at%2010.57.37%20AM-L.png


I need to rework one little part of it. I need to get the air density a little more variable. Right now I alter the temp until I can match true density. Another point to add is AFR. With damn near all fuel having Ethanol in it, you can not go by the old lean best torque theory. There has to be more fuel now to get the same thermal/energy effect.

Even the old Brake Specific Fuel Consumption math gets you dang close. Gas NA BSFC is about .5. (HPxBSFC)/injector qty - (460x.5)/8=28.75 lb per injector. X that by the Ethanol difference. Lean best Ethanol 12.5/ Lean Best True Gas 13.3 = .939 , so 7-8% more fuel is needed. 28.75*1.07=30.76 per injector. E10 ethanol Lean Best Torque I have seen anywhere from 12.2-12.5. So I chose the lean side.
 
So I am getting some confusion reports.

Pull 3 on the chart is the STOCK cam with better valve springs.

Pull 5 is the BABY cam with the valve springs and push rods to match it.

YES, Pull 3 made that power with the STOCK cam.

Stock cam, yeah its got some miles on it....
IMG_0778-M.jpg


I had to take some sand paper to the end to even find the numbers....
IMG_0780-M.jpg


Stock cam is the later 1721
196/207 .457/.479 lsa 116
Same cam as the LQ9
 
So the thing that Josh left out is, for lack of a better word, the willingness of the motor with the baby cam. The stock run it just jumped I mean really jumped. The baby cam it was almost more so. Either one of these setups with a team 208 tune and the responsiveness of the motor is insane.
 
Allright, here is a little more data on parts you can source.

Rails - 12621560
Intake - 12580420
Valve Springs - 12499224 - These are not for my cams...... Stock Cam Only
Injectors - 12594512 - These are EV6 and LS2 height

Another thing to keep in mind is the injectors that are listed are EV6 plug. Adapters can be purchased or you can cut and solder on new plugs.

Multec 2 to EV6
FullSizeRender-M.jpg


This intake has a 90mm opening for TB and is the new style 4 bolt. Your 3 bolt style will not work. Cable will have to go aftermarket. Holley makes a bracket to hold the cable. DBW can use the larger 4 bolt truck throttle body or the LS2 one.

For DBW apps, the plug at the throttle body will have to converted. I will put up how to do this as well as look at doing my own no cut conversion plug.
 
Alright. I have numbers crunched for the Baby Cam Packages.

Package 1 - Baby Cam - 460hp 460 lb-ft - $1400
**You must source your own 1.8 ratio rockers to get the power stated - Summit SUM-G6981 is a good budget set**

Kit includes
Baby Cam
Valve Spring Kit - Springs, Seals, Locks, Locators, Retainers
Moly .080 5/16 Push Rods
ECM Tune



Package 2 - Baby Cam - 460hp 460 lb-ft - $1850

Kit Includes
Yella Terra 1.8 Shaft Mounted Ultralite Rockers
Baby Cam
Valve Spring Kit - Springs, Seals, Locks, Locators, Retainers
Moly .080 5/16 Push Rods
ECM Tune


You will notice there are not LS7 lifters... They are not needed with this cam, so there is no extra hidden cost of head gaskets and head bolts.

Depending on motor condition you may need a timing chain set or you may not. We ran our test engine with the 125k mile timing set through all our dyno pulls.

This package is for Cathedral Port Heads ONLY. If you have L92s or you plan on a stroker let me know. Other cams are shortly behind.
 
I am trying to get a cost right now to build the TB adapter for you DBW guys. While its cheap for me to put one together on a board here.... I am worried that mass producing may not be as cheap as the X Link one already out there. Its an easy thing to do, here for us....

In the trucks there are the 2 TPS sensors.

1 and 2.

At 0% Throttle
1 - .37-.71 v
2 - .29-.81 v

100%
1 - 4.51v
2 - 4.60v

The TBSS and LS2 Style

0%
1 - .56v
2 - 4.33v

100%
1 - 4.38v
2 - .57v

As you can see the voltage flips on sensor 2. This is due to the sensor style in the newer throttle bodies.


Truck TPS Wiring....
03tb-L.jpg



TBSS, LS2 and on... Ignore the purple
%2707%20throttle%20body%20schematic-L.jpg


Its easy to spot the wiring/sensor difference and what has to be done with sensor 2.
 
Little heads up. Comms will be scarce this week. Headed out of town to wire a car and maybe make it to Glen Helen. Should be back in action at the shop the 13th or 14th.
 



Thats a great improvement over stock, now could you do the same with the engine assistant pictured!

Seriously, Eric I didn't know this was the 6.0 work you've been doing.
I would love to build my 99 for a dune runner using its 6.0...for 230K on the clock it still performs real well.
 
Big news on some more cams. We have a few different Turbo grinds coming in then being shipped north of the border. This should be fun.

As of right now there will be a single turbo grind and a twin grind. Engines to test these are being planned/built as I type.

Cough Cough - We broke 500/500 on a stock LQ4 base. Will have the dyno numbers up in the next 4-6 weeks. We are going to swap some parts and run again to verify. As always I only want to feed you guys true data.
 
Do you have any packages running the MSD ignition / carb package. i have a MSD Atomic.

also, decent source for 6.0 long blocks?
 
Do you have any packages running the MSD ignition / carb package. i have a MSD Atomic.

also, decent source for 6.0 long blocks?

Isn't atomic still fuel injection still?

Long blocks..... Not really. Rebuilt ready to go ones seem to go anywhere from 1700-2250 with warranty.
 
Yes, but fits on square base carb intake. Your motors or someone else's?

I don't have guys running atomic, well, because I can tune the ECMs correctly. LOL. Auto tune is awesome till it sucks and cant understand idle with air reversion. Not trying to bash here. Everything has its limits and realtime correction of an ever changing idle/part throttle condition due to a large cam that reverts exhaust pulses is not realistic. Proper tuning and commanding fuel with no correction is the proper way.

Here is an example. Holley System that is totally capable of auto correcting at idle could not keep up with this engine and I tuned it to run open loop commended fuel only. Needless to say, it doesn't skip a beat this way. CLICK for video 1 A few TTC guys come to mind this year with auto tune fast systems...... They took them off half way through the comp to put a carb on.

Motors are from a build shop in Oregon that I would purchase through local parts house. Odds are there may be one close to you that could provide the same thing without all the shipping. I really don't want to get into building engines but I know how things go. I can source low-mid mileage packages that are good to run, convert the harness/tune and ship it all on a pallet ready to run. Building from the ground up requires a re-tool from a tuning and wiring shop.
 
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I don't have guys running atomic, well, because I can tune the ECMs correctly. LOL. Auto tune is awesome till it sucks and cant understand idle with air reversion. Not trying to bash here. Everything has its limits and realtime correction of an ever changing idle/part throttle condition due to a large cam that reverts exhaust pulses is not realistic. Proper tuning and commanding fuel with no correction is the proper way.

Here is an example. Holley System that is totally capable of auto correcting at idle could not keep up with this engine and I tuned it to run open loop commended fuel only. Needless to say, it doesn't skip a beat this way. CLICK for video 1 A few TTC guys come to mind this year with auto tune fast systems...... They took them off half way through the comp to put a carb on.

Motors are from a build shop in Oregon that I would purchase through local parts house. Odds are there may be one close to you that could provide the same thing without all the shipping. I really don't want to get into building engines but I know how things go. I can source low-mid mileage packages that are good to run, convert the harness/tune and ship it all on a pallet ready to run. Building from the ground up requires a re-tool from a tuning and wiring shop.


I bought the Atomic used and at the right price, I wouldn't spend $2k+ on a new one. I understand what you are saying on the auto tune. I am big bike guy, my family runs S1000rr, ZX14 and 600rr. we don't auto tune anything.

No problem with regards to the motors, I rather pass money to another member than someone that i don't know.
 
I bought the Atomic used and at the right price, I wouldn't spend $2k+ on a new one. I understand what you are saying on the auto tune. I am big bike guy, my family runs S1000rr, ZX14 and 600rr. we don't auto tune anything.

No problem with regards to the motors, I rather pass money to another member than someone that i don't know.

Thanks for understanding. Sometimes people don't quite grasp what happens and why. I just don't want to get you into something that does not perform as advertised. I don't do business like that.

Whats your final intention for use? I think that would really help narrow down a cam. What are you running for ignition control? Dizzy conversion or an ignition box and coils?
 
Thanks for understanding. Sometimes people don't quite grasp what happens and why. I just don't want to get you into something that does not perform as advertised. I don't do business like that.

Whats your final intention for use? I think that would really help narrow down a cam. What are you running for ignition control? Dizzy conversion or an ignition box and coils?

For this project I don't have a motor yet. I would plan on running the coils with a MSD controller. It would be partly daily driver with limited mud wheeling.

Currently it runs tons with 4.56 on true 37"s with a NV4500/205 combo.
 
For this project I don't have a motor yet. I would plan on running the coils with a MSD controller. It would be partly daily driver with limited mud wheeling.

Currently it runs tons with 4.56 on true 37"s with a NV4500/205 combo.

With that said something with vacuum down low and a good power curve.... Hmmm. LOL.

The Baby setup would work awesome. I would love to see it setup on that style intake too.
 
We have a new package hitting soon. This one is the Big Baby. Same LQ4 base. I'll have specs up very soon.

Till then, the test engine got used this weekend. Rig is an S10 based mud truck and the sled is about 12k......

Big Baby Video Click
 
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