Lumber jack advice

[bp71k5]

Not sure if this is really garage material, so feel free to move if needed.

I’ve got this ~60’ tree at the back of the property that’s been uprooted and is hung up on another tree. Was looking for advice on the best way to safely get it down. My son and his friends spend lots of time having nerf wars back there and I want to ensure they’re safe. Here’s a picture.



I’ve also been looking at YouTube videos for advice and ran across this fail which was interesting but can’t understand his explanation of what happened cause it’s in German (I think). Bonus points for anyone who can translate.

 

[Justin V]

Tannerite?

 

[rampage]

It did a slight barber chair. The camera angles aren’t the best but it looks like his notch cut isn’t deep enough (he cut too far down to the root system instead of the actual trunk) and his final fell cut could have gone deeper also. But that’s not something you need to worry about - you’re dealing with an entirely different situation. Using a chainsaw to cut that down would be very dangerous even for an experienced logger. I can’t see how tangled the branches are at the top, but what I’d do is try to pull over with your truck (if it’s accessible). You might need a snatch block and a fair amount of cable. Toss the cable around the lowest branch that’s broken off. Might need to toss a rope up there first using a weighted object so you can then hoist the cable up there. Then run the cable to a snatch block to pull it in the opposite direction from where you took the pic. That’s looks the easiest direction for it to go unless you see different.
Another option is to fall the tree that it’s hung up in, but if you’re searching YouTube for felling videos I wouldn’t recommend that.

 

[sweetk30]

as said that is a bad tree problem as it hangs now . that tree is under gravitys control and wants down . then its loaded up tons of energy on the resting tree and if you do not know how to get it down it is like playing with a loaded gun . they can and do twist around / kick back / or just drop .

i am no expert so all i can say is i have done a few my self and been lucky but each one has its own challenges and ways to get it done . good luck and maybe best let a tree expert handle this job .

if i was to try something in your shoes as said good yank strap or cable and direction change with pulley to keep you away from the drop zone . then maybe a small cut near the base of the half down tree to weaken it and be a controlled snap . part way up from the bottom then some from the top but not as much so it dont pinch your bar and hold the saw .

 

[diesel4me]

Like Sweet K30,I've had to pull several hung up trees over in the past,and been "lucky" as far as no injuries (at least to ME,not counting other objects!)--and still have one threatening to cave in my quonset hut some I haven't been able to deal with when all the trees around it had their leaves on still..its being supported by a chain bolted across two other trees beside it..it has dropped onto the chain and is about 8 feet from the top of the roof now..tilted over much more than in this older photo..

There is another tree in my yard right near the street about the same size as yours is,and it landed right in the crotch of another tree and wedged itself firmly there,the butt end is stuck into the ground a good foot..that one is going to be tricky to pull free because its near the road,and right on a property line ..luckily its not very high up,maybe 8-10 ft..

I like the idea of using a snatch block and have in the past,to let me pull a tree down and be safely out of its path..you can double them up and gain pulling power too..

I have had limited success using ropes to pull trees down,more than one time the brand new nylon rope snapped after stretching a lot ,when the tree began moving and lifted a few feet--SNAP!..and it crashed back down ..was lucky things didn't go bad cause of that..

Whenever possible I use chain or cable,but its a chore getting one up on the top end of the tree,especially the 50 foot length of 5/16" chain I use --I've had to use a fishing pole to let the fishing line up over the tree,hope the sinker lets it drop so you can tie a nylon rope to it,reel it in,get the rope over the tree,then tie it to the chain or cable and repeat,till you have it in place..this is a real ballubuster when other trees with lots of branches surround the one your aiming for--the line will spin onto another branch several times ,totally pissing you off,at least when its me trying to do this....

I now have several lead sinkers permanently stuck in trees,so I've started using large hex nuts ..
I've also had a metal pipe I used as weight to toss a rope over a tree,come off and clock me in the head as I was twirling it around in cowboy fashion to get it up over the tree..times like that I wish I had a spear gun,or maybe a bow & arrow..

In the past I had friends with a wrecker boom or ramp truck ,and we used the winch to pull hung up trees down..we put a snatch block on a nearby tree about 10 feet higher than the hung up tree and looped the winch cable to it so it would lift the tree up and off the other it fell on and wedged in,and the tree swung itself free once clear of the other tree and we were able to just let it down slowly...one other time the tree snapped off like a gunshot and the tree crashed to the ground and the rest of it was dangling from the cable....
A few times the tree was so firmly wedged,we just rigged up snatch blocks to pull on the center of the tree and snap in in two from a safe place..

I have yanked many trees down with my pickup and garden tractors,but it is tricky to get the right combination of throttle and hard to see what your doing when its behind you..
I once went to pull a maple tree about 6" thick out that fell against some trees right next to it..my truck pulled it right out like a bad tooth--when I got out to unhook the rope,I was surprised to see I pulled 2 other equal sized trees out too,and they took out 25 feet of cedar fence....

I think at least 3 professional tree service workers have died here in MA in recent months..bottom line is its a huge gamble,trees can do what they want,even defy physics, despite you having the skills and knowledge to give you the best shot and downing one without getting killed or hurt bad..even experts die doing it..
I'm not in good enough shape to cut trees like I used too--I should hire someone legit to get that tree down before it falls on the garage..they have insurance--if I end up dropping it on the garage,I'd likely be told "self inflicted damages aren't covered"..

Right now my best friends dad,who is in his early 70's,was finally able to go home from a nursing home-rehab center--he attempted to climb a ladder about 25 ft up a tree a few months ago ,he wanted to cut off branches to allow more sun to get on his garden--he was using a big brush cutter knife (Machette ?) to lop them off,he lost his balance when the ladder moved,and down he went--the knife got both of his arms as he bumped off branches as he fell,when he landed he broke his collar bone and three ribs,and had a punctured lung..he was lucky to live,and still has a long road to recovery--he admits he was "stupid" to do that alone..
He's been a farmer/factory worker all his life and was in excellent health prior to this--I saw him climb a 50 foot tree with a chain saw in tow and lop the top off the tree about 10 years ago...no fear,strong as a bull..

 

[tenderfoot]

Tannerite?

I thought the same thing. And why not.

 

[rampage]

Forgot to say - there’s a reason they’re called widow makers.

 

[imiceman44]

I agree with everyone here not a simple task.
Whatever you do, think about it twice and ask here before you do it or hire a pro.
I have a few ideas that I would do but I don't trust anyone else doing it.
I think the safest for you to do if you don't want to preserve the tree holding it is to take it down. Problem solved.

 

[diesel4me]

A few trees like his pictured I had,I put a chain around the base about a foot or two from the ground and cut into the stump almost all the way thru,then I used my truck to yank the tree off at the stump end,and as I drove away,the tree slid out of the crotch of the other one it was hung up in and fell to the ground..

I had so many other trees next to those two,there was not really any way to cut the tree it was hung up on,without that tree now getting caught in others...I figured pulling it from the bottom would work,as I had clear access from that position to drag it a good 50 feet..got lucky and the tree slid right out,it was wet from rain--if it was not,it could have snagged tightly enough to end up pulling the tree it was caught in out along with it..

I'm tempted to use that method on the tree threatening my garage if I get the nerve to risk doing it myself..I have several huge trees I can anchor a snatch block too in back of the "leaner"..but the more I look at it--the less I feel like risking doing it myself..out in the woods is one thing--when a building is threatened,you have a lot more to lose if things go sour.

 

[rampage]

If you do consider using a saw to bring this down instead of pulling it then there is a way to do it by making a series of notch/undercuts.
1. Be safe! Don’t attempt this alone in case something goes wrong.
2. Study the way the tree wants to fall and what it’s hung up on. Look for any widow maker branches.
3. For all your saw cuts have an escape route planned for when the tree falls and clear any branches/debris ahead of time so you don’t trip.
4. Make a notch cut on the top about 1/4 way through followed by an undercut. It’s much like when you fall a tree - leaving a ‘hinge’ to direct where it’ll fall. You can also tie off the trunk above where you’re going to cut to help keep the main trunk from swinging towards you when it falls. Cutting from the top will pinch the blade and trap the saw, but you should already know that.
5. The closer you get to the top of the tree the more dangerous it gets since the branches can get hung up and make it fall unpredictably. And don’t forget about the widow maker branches you identified earlier.

I found this video from Terry Hale, he has a series of videos explaining tree falling. Also found one he did about throwing a rope into a tree. I might have to get one of those weighted shot bags he demonstrated.

 

[bp71k5]

If you do consider using a saw to bring this down instead of pulling it then there is a way to do it by making a series of notch/undercuts.
1. Be safe! Don’t attempt this alone in case something goes wrong.
2. Study the way the tree wants to fall and what it’s hung up on. Look for any widow maker branches.
3. For all your saw cuts have an escape route planned for when the tree falls and clear any branches/debris ahead of time so you don’t trip.
4. Make a notch cut on the top about 1/4 way through followed by an undercut. It’s much like when you fall a tree - leaving a ‘hinge’ to direct where it’ll fall. You can also tie off the trunk above where you’re going to cut to help keep the main trunk from swinging towards you when it falls. Cutting from the top will pinch the blade and trap the saw, but you should already know that.
5. The closer you get to the top of the tree the more dangerous it gets since the branches can get hung up and make it fall unpredictably. And don’t forget about the widow maker branches you identified earlier.

I found this video from Terry Hale, he has a series of videos explaining tree falling. Also found one he did about throwing a rope into a tree. I might have to get one of those weighted shot bags he demonstrated.

I’ve seen a few videos of that method and it looks straightforward, but I’ve also seen a few where it goes sideways. It’s been a few years since I’ve used a chainsaw and it was on much smaller trees though.

I can take a look at felling both trees. Might be an safer option. There’s several trees that size that have just split and fallen in the few months we've been here. I have a feeling the trees are pretty old and may not be all healthy.

Theres no way to get a full size vehicle back there without cutting down way more trees than I’d like. I may be able to get my garden tractor back there and see if I can dislodge it while staying out of the way. I’m skeptical that’ll do anything though.

It’s also close to the property line of the neighbors back there. Gotta make sure it doesn’t fall on anything and damage their property. It kills me to pay someone to come out, but I guess I’ll have to at least consider it.

thanks for the advice, I’ll be studying things back there a bit more to come up with a plan.

 

[diesel4me]

I pulled many trees down with my Sears Suburban tractor,in places my truck couldn't get near--also used a 20 HP Yard-Man with a hydrostat to yank down a large long maple that toppled over and wedged in another tree's crotch..it took a lot of forward-reverse yanks before it finally came free,but it did it..
The Yard-Man is more of a riding mower,has 12" rear tires but the chassis on it is no heavier than most smaller riding mowers..it still did the job though..just had to thrash it back and forth enough times to break the tree loose from where it was stuck..

Using a tractor is more hazardous for a few reasons,one is your out in the open unprotected,and the tractor may not weigh enough to not get dragged backwards by the tree if it fails to pull it completely over..for these reasons I use long chain or cable,or rope to keep out of the danger zone..and use snatch blocks to change the direction of pull if need be..

My Sears has fluid filled rear tires,wheel weights,tire chains,and another 280 lbs stacked under the seat,plus I weigh almost 200 lbs,so it does pretty well at pulling trees or pushing them around..


I feel the safest way to dislodge a tree stuck like yours is to cut it at the base as I explained in my previous post and pull it from the bottom using a long chain,cable or rope from a safe distance..

Then the most hazardous part is cutting the tree at the base,you'll want an escape path cleared or a place to duck if it decided to break loose suddenly..once the base is cut free,it wont take that much to drag the tree away,a riding mower may not be heavy enough or get enough traction to do it but its worth a try--they can pull harder than you'd think..but a garden tractor would be better..

 

[bp71k5]

I pulled many trees down with my Sears Suburban tractor,in places my truck couldn't get near--also used a 20 HP Yard-Man with a hydrostat to yank down a large long maple that toppled over and wedged in another tree's crotch..it took a lot of forward-reverse yanks before it finally came free,but it did it..
The Yard-Man is more of a riding mower,has 12" rear tires but the chassis on it is no heavier than most smaller riding mowers..it still did the job though..just had to thrash it back and forth enough times to break the tree loose from where it was stuck..

Using a tractor is more hazardous for a few reasons,one is your out in the open unprotected,and the tractor may not weigh enough to not get dragged backwards by the tree if it fails to pull it completely over..for these reasons I use long chain or cable,or rope to keep out of the danger zone..and use snatch blocks to change the direction of pull if need be..

My Sears has fluid filled rear tires,wheel weights,tire chains,and another 280 lbs stacked under the seat,plus I weigh almost 200 lbs,so it does pretty well at pulling trees or pushing them around..


I feel the safest way to dislodge a tree stuck like yours is to cut it at the base as I explained in my previous post and pull it from the bottom using a long chain,cable or rope from a safe distance..

Then the most hazardous part is cutting the tree at the base,you'll want an escape path cleared or a place to duck if it decided to break loose suddenly..once the base is cut free,it wont take that much to drag the tree away,a riding mower may not be heavy enough or get enough traction to do it but its worth a try--they can pull harder than you'd think..but a garden tractor would be better..

I’ve got a decently heavy garden tractor so it may be worth a try. After a closer look, the tree is sitting at almost a 45 degree angle.


The tree it’s hung up on also looks damaged as the bark has split off the back side, maybe happened when my tree hit it.



I say “my” tree cause the tree it’s leaning on is on a neighbors property. If it was mine, I’d take both down but I’ll have to go talk to them and see what they want to do.

Here’s mine. Looks like the roots broke and so may be rotted inside which sounds like it gets more dangerous in that case.

 

[diesel4me]

You could wrap a chain around the base and tie it off to two other trees to prevent the tree from coming up towards you as your cutting it..but it'll more likely stay put seeing its already leaning over so far..then remove it before you go to pull it away from the bottom..
If its rotted enough,you may be able to yank it out with a truck without even cutting it..if its not anchored in frozen ground..

The tree its stuck in may be rotted at the base ,so I'd be careful,it may give way when you try pulling the other tree out..

You can use snatch blocks to give more pulling power to your tractor and make it less likely to get dragged backwards--the bummer is you need a long enough rope or cable and a lot of room to drive the tractor away,you'll be pulling 100 feet of rope to move it only a short distance depending on the amount of "reduction" and pulleys you use..I've had pretty good luck just hooking a chain up and yanking though..

The tree leaning over my quonset garage is also rotted and pulling out at the base too,just as yours is..another complication is I buried my other cat right beside this tree in 2013,not that deep,as the ground was frozen hard as rock and I had to use a pick & shovel to get a hole barely keep enough for its coffin..I expect it to be pulled out of the ground if the tree pulls free from the ground..

 

[rampage]

Looks like the bark is gone all the way up and looks very rotten. No telling where that’ll go once it’s cut loose. I’m sure you know this, but the bark acts as a protective layer. That other tree looks to be rotting too (white streaks at the base where the bark is missing) so I’d say the bark on that tree fell off previously. In either case, since it’s missing so much bark it’s done for and needs to come out too before it falls where it’s not wanted.

Take a screwdriver and push it into the trunk at the base of the tree that fell all the way around the perimeter to see how rotten it is (check the other tree also). Do that in a few spots going up the trunk to see if it gets softer or harder as you go up. If it’s getting softer you might be able to snap it in half at that dead branch or a little higher with a heavy rope or cable and your tractor. Just run the cable from wherever you want on the leaning tree to a snatch block at the base of the tree it’s leaning against.

Another thing you can do is get a free “quote” from a few tree removal companies. After you’ve warmed them up a bit you can ask how they plan on removing it. Then thank them and say you have a couple other companies coming to give you quotes. See if one of their removal methods is something you’re comfortable doing yourself. You may find that it’ll only be a couple hundred bucks.

My brother, who lives in the Bay Area, has had large eucalyptus trees taken out next to his house for a couple grand each. These needed to have a tree climber and each pieced carefully lowered and hauled away. So I can’t see why having one that’s just being felled cost that much.

 

[bp71k5]

I’d easily let a professional handle those for $200. I sold my saw before we moved so I still have to convince my wife of the need for a new one. I’ll give the screwdriver test a try and see how it looks.

My son and I were able to pull some decent sized logs that were already down to make a path to get the tractor further into where that hung up tree is. Tractor needs better traction though as it took lots of jerking the log to get it moving. Maybe better tires or some chains are needed. Driving through the mud makes me want to get the blazer back out off road.

 

[Wes Harden]

all that fire wood and no saw Stihl for Christmas

 

[diesel4me]

You'll need chains most likely on muddy or frozen ground..and all the weight you can add too--my tractor weighs probably close to 1000 lbs with all its battle gear on..the fluid filled rear tires alone weigh over 100 lbs each..


This is what I added under the seat for more weight--nearly 300 lbs..

33 lb wheel weights too..and lug reinforced truck tire chains cut to fit..


This tractor only has a 6 hp engine I put on it--was 12HP originally..so I cant put it in third high range and dump the clutch to get a lot of speed up,it doesn't have enough guts--but using first gear in hi range there isn't much it cant move,but not in a hurry..in low gear first it is geared so low it'll pull or push just about anything ,but if you need a fast running start to jerk something loose,,your out of luck..top speed in first gear lo range is .75 mph..you feel like your riding on a winch when pulling something with it..

I prefer to putt along slow and not beat on the tractor,and I figure less HP than it had originally will prevent me from grenading something..if it gets enough traction there isn't much it wont pull or push..I've used it to pull my truck up the driveway many times and it doesn't even spin a tire or strain at all,and it weighs 6,250 lbs empty..

You may get away with no chains or weight if you rig up some snatch blocks,that reduces the amount of pull you need..

The dead cherry tree leaning over my garage is mushy on its outer inch or so when I whacked it with a hatchet,but under that layer it is still hard as rock..it did crack some where it landed on the chain draped across the two trees in front of it,but it's been a year or more and hasn't drooped any lower..
But that doesn't mean freeze-thaw cycles wont weaken it further,and some wet snow wont build up on it and one of our famous nor-easter 60 mph gusts wont make it crack off there and smash onto the garage..
It is only about 8 feet above the roof,so I'm hoping if it did snap off,it wont gain enough speed to do a lot of damage to the steel arches..the building could easily support the weight of the tree if it were lowered gently,but a sudden impact will likely do some damage..the building has garage door tracks mounted directly under where the tree would hit if it fell,which may help limit any damage..

Yesterday I cut up about a dozen oak pallets for firewood,friend who gets pellets for his stove gets them by the ton on pallets and he had a bunch piled up he wanted gone..

I used my electric chain saw..at first I thought those were a joke,until I used an old one my dad got back around 1978 and I must have cut 6 cords with it before it finally had an issue--the cooling fan on the motor came unwelded from the armature..otherwise it still was working fine..

It sure is nice not to have to mess with 2 cycle mix,pull a recoil 500 times and have to resort to using ether to start a chain saw that sat a long time,then hope the carb isn't "ethanoled"...
The electric saw is quieter than a vaccum cleaner,can be used indoors,and is lightweight --the only bummer is the cord is a pain..

The last time I woke up my Poulan chain saw,I was too beat after finally getting it running to cut anything with it..the electric one is a bit slower,but I am having a hard time doing these chores like I used too,and slow is better for me..
I'm hurting pretty good now after yesterdays workout..

 

[ramack]

You definitely need to get that down. If not for your kids safety, for your own liability. Not sure what the laws are in TN, but the way this worlds is becoming, most likely even if someone were illegally on your property and was injured or killed because of the tree you could have a law suit on your hands.

It's hard to see all obstacles from the pics, but I'd do it. IF you don't mind losing the tree it's caught on too. Looks like there's enough trees to provide protection laterally, so there "should" be a clean escape to the sides. It's not as hard as it looks, but you need to know what you're doing.

Most arborists will give you a free quote. Just have them fell the tree, once it's down you've got yourself some firewood.

 

[diesel4me]

When I go to drag a fallen tree away with my tractor,I back up as close to it as possible if I can get at it,and hook up the chain in such a manner that it is under the tree,that way when I go to pull on it,the tree lifts up and transfers the weight of that end of the tree onto the rear of the tractor,giving you much more traction,and it wont dig in or drag and hold you back..

I've used a "log arch" to haul some big trees out of the woods,it is just a metal pipe shaped like an upside down "U" with wheels ,that has a lift point to attach a come-a-long or winch to,to hoist the tree up off the ground so it wont dig in or drag,you'd be surprised what a garden tractor can pull using one of those..