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mechanical fuel pump question..

My perkins still has the hand primer on the outside of the lift pump.
I had the same on my 70's European cars.
 
Well,I am headed to Autozone to pick up an electric fuel pump ,like the one I had on the truck...they didn't have it in stock,but got one from another store about 25 miles away...

I was going to wait and get one online,after I get a credit or debit card,but most of the cheaper pumps had poor reviews,and wouldn't get to my house for up to a week later,I want one now,and if I had to pay shipping,the price wouldn't be much less than Autozone gets ($26.99 + tax)..and theirs has a "limited lifetime warranty"..its a "Spectra" brand made in Canada,which is better than China ..
Its a 2.5-5 psi version like I had before..

Now I'm wondering how I should install it--just put it back where the old one was,and leave the mechanical pump on the engine intact ,like its been all along ?--or should I just by-pass the mechanical one,which may well be dying or dead,I think the engine is running off the injector pump only now..
I don't want the possibility of fuel getting in the engine or pissing fuel out of the weep hole if the diaphragm fails..

I'd buy a new mechanical pump and install it if I thought I could,but after looking at where its mounted,I cant see me being able to do it unless I pull the motor mount bolts off and jack up the engine..
Screw that..
I can barely SEE the pump or its bolts and hose fittings,and get at any of them as it sits..I just assume by-pass it,but I'm leery of relying on just the electric pump alone ,seeing they can fail without warning too.
But as it stands now,I cant even drive the dam truck over 30 mph or climb a grade without it wanting to bog out and stall..

I think the factory filter setup is rather stupid...they expect a mechanical pump to be able to suck enough fuel thru the "sock" in the tank,to fill that big spin on filter on the suction side of the pump,and all the way to the pump on the engine--then another 5 feet of hose and a secondary filter on the pressure side,to the IP...

I think it is better the way they re-vamped the newer diesels with the electric lift pump--the electric pump only has to suck fuel from the sock,and thru one external pre-filter to protect the pump,then from there on it is all pressurized all the way to the spin on filter & IP...to me,that makes much more sense..a lot less places it could suck air in and defeat the pump's ability to move fuel..

The other day I tried to pressurize the fuel tank using a bicycle inner tube clamped over the filler neck to look for leaks in the hoses & connections....
I was going to try adapting my Stant radiator tester pump to a gas cap to pump it up ,but I couldn't find a spare gas cap to ruin..that would be the perfect tool to bleed the system & look for leaks..,if you could rig up an adapter!..

Soon as I pumped the tube up,I found out the filler pipe had a small hole in it from rust,and seeing it is right in the path of salt spray from the tire,its no surprise to me,weird thing is the neck is painted and rust free except for that one "pit"..:doah:

I put a sheet metal screw with a rubber washer under its head in the hole to seal it up,and some RTV over that..good thing I didn't drive in the rain or snow much,or I'd have water in the tank..samples of fuel I siphoned out look clear and no water or dirt,so I guess bad fuel can be ruled out..

I couldn't see any seepage from any of the fuel hoses under the truck at the clamps,or at the filter on the firewall or any of the other hoses..but I couldn't keep the pressure up for long,or too high,because I feared the gas tank might leak...so I couldn't do a thorough "test" really..
The main fuel feed hose at the sending unit has a hose clamp pressing against it that is on the hose next to it (return line)..
I suspected that clamp may have made a hole in the feed hose,but I saw no leaks and no bubbles when I sprayed soapy water on it..
I'm not dropping the tank just for that, if its not letting air get in there..

I also found the fuel tank strap closest to the cab holding the tank up has 2 out of 3 rivets pulled out of the bracket,that has rotted away there..:doah:..
I put some galvanized stranded wire around the strap & tank and twisted it tight, to help support it..for now..the other strap is OK..

I have some spare good tank brackets and some used & brand new straps,but I'm going to wait until I decide whether I'm taking this truck off the road before I go dropping the tank--the bed needs to come off,its pretty roached,wooden floor is junk,so are the side steps--it might get the flat bed I have put on it instead of the stepside--if I ever feel well enough to do that kind of work again..be a lot easier to deal with if the bed is off..it has to come off anyways eventually so I can weld up some spots on the frame that need beefing up ,and the spring hanger brackets on the drivers side..

So, a poll--which way would you guys go about installing the electric pump ?--leave it in addition to the mechanical one like it was,or by-pass the mechanical one so most of the fuel lines are under pressure rather than suction,like the newer trucks are ?..
 
So, a poll--which way would you guys go about installing the electric pump ?--leave it in addition to the mechanical one like it was,or by-pass the mechanical one so most of the fuel lines are under pressure rather than suction,like the newer trucks are ?..

I opted to use both pumps. On two of my rigs, I found fuel leaking out of the mechanical pump after I started pressurizing the inlet. So I figure that's where air had been getting in. The CUCV immediately stopped burping air bubbles as soon as I bypassed the mechanical pump. Instant healing. I can't say whether your truck is leaking there, but it's a common culprit.

Replace the electric pump first. See what that tells you. It may be that you clearly see a problem at the mechanical pump. Or you might just leave both pumps, if the mechanical isn't the primary problem. I never did get around to changing or bypassing the mechanical pump on the Stepside. As long as I let it prime before startup, the small air leak was never a problem. And when the cheapo electric pump failed, I made it home on the sputtery mechanical pump.

For the new build I chucked the mechanical pump and I just carry a spare electric pump (now upgraded to OEM quality instead of using a Chinese knockoff). I can easily change it on the side of the road if it ever fails again.
 
I was leaning towards just putting the electric pump back on ,like it was rigged and worked the past 16 years -2 reasons,one,-that is enough work for me,and two,the mechanical pump doesn't appear to have any fuel oozing out anywhere,just the typical grunge the rest of the engine has on it..but its been on it since I got the truck in 2003 and might even be original for all I know..

Whether its actually pumping much volume or has sufficient pressure I cant really tell,unless I wanted to open the lines back up and install a T and gauge where the pressure side hose goes to the IP..

I had to make up a 3/8" to 1/4" barbed coupling when I got the truck and plumbed new hoses up ,because the fuel pump pressure hose was 3/8" and the IP inlet barb is 1/4",I could tap a gauge in there..that splice is right over the RH valve cover...
Thought it was weird they used 3/8 all the way from the tank,then necked it down at the IP..:dunno:
But I hate to let air in everything again and create more potential air infiltration sites..

I'm also trying to limit my exposure to diesel fuel to ONE time,bad enough my clothes and house reek of it already..one drop is all it takes..:surepal:

I drove the truck 10 miles total today,about 5 one way and back again..
I booted it on the highway until it topped out in second gear and was going about 50 when it upshifted into third,I left it floored to see if it would bog out,and it didn't,then when I let off the throttle it did a "surge" twice--may have been the govenor ?..

I wasn't able to hold it floored as long as I hoped to because of other cars ahead of me,but the thing ran much better than last time when the other filter was on it..what I drained from the old one looks perfectly clear though..I do not think it was plugging up..

I hit passing gear twice on the way home,the hill it barely made it up last week didn't seem to phase it either..maybe the mechanical pump only works when it feels like it,the check valves aren't sealing all the time ?..

Maybe the 14 "fresh" gallons I put in last Saturday and the additive & ATF I filled the new filter with is helping--also since my fuel gauge doesn't work .it may have been closer to empty than I thought--I put 14 gallons in but it had some more room..still had 3-4 gallons left at least I'd guess..

It still starts a bit harder and does the lopey-stally crap until I keep it at fast idle 2-3 minutes after a cold start and belches whitish smoke out both banks though--once it warms up it runs better and smooths out finally,the way it runs when cold reminds me of a gas engine with bad plug wires on a rainy day,it misfires and lopes or chugs like an over choked gas engine..

Once its up to normal temperature it actually runs decent..the only symptom it had after it warmed up is the bogging down and wanting to die under a load or heavy acceleration..
(Like the fuel pump isn't delivering enough or a filter is plugged ).
Today it didn't do it ..:dunno:

I was thinking of trying to drive it to the flea market tomorrow,but its 25 miles each way,and at 7 am on a Sunday there aren't many tow trucks available in that area..hate to miss going there but I'd hate not to make it there or home more..:mad1:

I think I'll stay home,put the electric pump on,see how it acts after that..
I bet it may cure the bogging under load issue,if it even still exists now,but the cold start running issues I think may be injectors draining down overnight and flooding the cylinders--that too may let air in the system ? ..using the ether that cold February morning might have screwed a few injectors up,that was when it started acting goofy..
 
,the mechanical pump doesn't appear to have any fuel oozing out anywhere,just the typical grunge the rest of the engine has on it

I'm not worried about it leaking fuel on the ground, I'm looking for a place where you could have a leak on the suction side. A leak on the pressure side could cause hard starting, but it won't cause the truck to stall out while running.
 
Took me from 1 pm Sunday till 7 pm to get the fuel pump installed,hooked up & running..:doah:

I could have just slapped it back on where the old one was that fried,but I didn't like it being higher than the fuel tank,I had it mounted to the bottom of the truck bed..

The old pump fried,smelled like a burnt out ballast from a flourecent light..that roached electrical transformer stench..the ground wire had came right out of the housing ,like it melted off whatever it went to inside--the "can" is filled with some type of tough gelatin stuff that surrounds whatever else is in there for electrical parts,and all there is for a "pump" is a steel rod with a plastic check valve on one end,in a cylinder.
Basically its just a solenoid !..

It said on the label it was a 5 to 9 PSI version...one I bought is rated for 2.5 to 5 PSI..should be good enough,I've read the IP only needs enough pressure and volume to avoid going "negative"...
I would have bought the pump GM put on later models,but it is rated at 10-14 PSI and has metric thread fitttings,that aren't supplied with it--and the cheapest price locally for one was over $60..(no one had one either!)..so I went with the Spectra one from Autozone for $26.99..

I used vise grips to pinch off the fuel feed hose from the tank and the one going to the firewall filter--that avoided a bath in diesel fuel when I took the pump off,but some managed to get on me anyways..not much came out,but it only takes a few drops---.

I found a 5/16" hole in the bottom of the frame rail already drilled in the perfect spot under the tank to mount the new pump,so I put it there instead,now its almost level with the bottom of the tank,as the instructions said is the preferred location,and "no more than 24" from the tank"..the old pump was about a foot higher than the tank and 18+" away..

One setback,I wasted $16 buying five feet of 3/8" and 1/4" fuel line hose,and then found out the new pump fittings are 5/16"..:doah::


I figured the 3/8" hose would fit tight enough on 5/16" barb fittings,but not tight enough to inspire confidence..
I figured it would leak or suck air in..

I could have gone hunting for two 3/8" barb fittings with 1/8" NPT threads,but the truck was apart now,and I doubt I'd have had much luck on a Sunday finding those at Lowe's or Home Depot,the stores like Autozone rape you for such things too,IF they happen to have any..I knew I had none,I already pawed thru my 5 gallon pail full of spare fittings ,none were for 3/8" hose..had everything BUT..of course..

I could have just re-used the 1/8"NPT pipe nipples I had used from the old pump in it,but I don't like trusting just a clamp with no "barb" on a diesel (though it worked fine for years that way)..

So I tore the truck apart looking for some fuel hose I knew I had stashed in it somewhere,and found a few feet of 5/16"..

I had to use a 3/8" barb "hose splicer" fitting on the main fuel feed hose from the sending unit,which was barely long enough to reach over the frame rail,and I was able to shove the 5/16" hose over it,and the 3/8" copper fuel line to the firewall filter ,being soft and fresh..used new worm clamps,not those cheesy spring type ones supplied with the pump..

I used the dinky pre-filter supplied with the pump that has a 1/8" NPT thread ,I don't like using suck a dinky filter knowing diesel can be dirty sometimes,but the warranty is void if you don't run one..since I didn't put one on the old pump,that may had led to its demise,but it was old enough to die anyways..

I have 2 bigger fuel filters that were used on older VW's with 5/16" barb fittings I can use later on if the small one clogs up..they are about as big as a oil filter,but it would be best to rig up a mount to hold them,rather than let them hang free supported only by the hoses..

I then inspected the wires I used to power the old pump,it was just ordinary 2 conductor lamp or extension cord,but it was still in excellent shape,not all brittle or corroded--I made sure it had a good ground (I grounded it to a bracket above the gas pedal,didn't trust using the frame its so rusty and old),and I also added a 10 amp fuse to the power wire from the fuse box..

I never had put one on it before,I had just tapped into an existing fuse in the fuse box that had power only in the "on" position..now it has it's own fuse,and it's power is gotten from another spot in the fuse box that had a factory tap for some other option..

I have a toggle switch on the dash to shut the pump off--I know the "right" way to wire the pump up is to use an oil pressure switch to kill power to it if the engine stalls (after a crash,etc),but I got by for so long without one I don't see the need for for all that extra wiring and work..

Well,after all was done,I tried firing it up--it started faster and only did the funky idle/loping thing for about 30 seconds and did not stall when I took my foot off the throttle right after it started, like it would before..

It idled kind of rough for about a minute,then it smoothed out a lot,probably had an air bubble in the lines from them being disturbed I assume..it also didn't belch white smoke out of both tailpipes like before too..checked everywhere for fuel leaks,didn't see any..

One thing I noticed,the 3/8" copper tubing I used from the firewall filter to the tank ,flattened out a lot where I had to make a 90 degree bend in it to get into the filter base..its not "kinked",but it is probably restricted some,it didn't seem to bother it with the old electric pump on it the 5+ years since I put the copper line in though..
I might try to see if I can un-flatten it using the flaring tool clamp or pliers,but I may end up mucking it up worse if I do..

The 1/4" fuel hose running to the IP looks petrified and old,I should replace that soon-that looks like a "fun" job..:doah:.-would have done it yesterday but I was running out of daylight and rain was moving in--supposed to be cold,drizzly & dreary here until Thursday now..:(...


The engine sounds more responsive and though I didn't take it for a ride,I am pretty sure it will be OK now..I hope..after $75 worth of new fuel filters,fuel pump,hose,etc,it better be!..worst part is it only got it back to running like it used too--not "better"..and the rest of the truck is still a p-o-s that needs 100 other things fixed..

I could barely get out of bed and walk this morning--left leg,hip,and lower back is fubared...my kness are junk too,I may need to go get some cortisone injections --probably going to spend the next few days in bed recovering...getting up from under the truck 50 times got me so sore I should have just stayed in bed longer this morning..
 
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