Motor Swap - Complete!

[dhcomp]

Ok, so i pulled the trigger tonight. Ordered a Crate 350, GM replacement for my motor.

Not going to go into my reasons for not doing a LS motor here. I'd love to do it, but it doesn't' make sense for me right now, on this rig.

That being said, i understand 90% of what has to happen to pull a motor.

What's my best resource for a step by step on the rest?

1. How does the auto trans connect to the motor, other than the bellhousing? How's the torque converter/flex plate all interface / come apart? Do i unbolt the trans and slide it back, or what? I've never taken apart a trans/motor combo in a truck, but i did pull my 6 speed in my bmw, so i'm not totally in new territory.

2. What do i lift from? I'm getting a hoist. Do i need a leveler thing to drop it back in easily? Do i need some sort of a lifting plate?

3. Do you normally install the intake before dropping it into the truck?

4. What's the easiest way to prime the oil pump before startup? What tools do i need to do this? What other pre-startup rituals are there, other than not forgetting oil?

5. What shoudl break-in be on a new motor like this? I need to tow again as soon as possible, so break-in will probably occur during a daily 30-40 mile each way commute.

Thanks guys!

And scott, if you are reading this, i'm still open to the idea of you installing this for me. Call me up.

 

[y5mgisi]

Bagh! I have to get back to work but i would like to answer all these questions for you! If noone beats me to it by 11:00, i will answer all your questions!

 

[wilpetty]

Okay. I'm a noob and I just did this. Side note: all my oil leaked out without me aware so I am doing it again. lol. Due to my lack of knowing what stuff is called I will try my best to remember for you.

1. All I remember were like 4-6 bolts connecting motor to trans. 2 were a pain to get to. but 2 or 4 are simple. The flex plate stayed on my motor as we took it out.

2. We put a heavy duty chain diagonally across the motor held on by bolts. Pretty simple but when we used the cherry picker, it was a big deal to get it on the middle link going across, so the motor came up "flat or evenly" and wasn't tilted. Lift plate would be great if they are cheap.

3. We installed the intake on mine. I am assuming you are talking about the intake rather than the filter housing. This time around I am going to put as much as I can on the motor before we put it back in. Especially the front pulley brackets.

4.I dont think we even primed the oil pump. I know adding zinc will help the cam break in. Whenever you start the truck, you give it gas in the 1500 to 2000 rpm range for 15 minutes to get the cam to break in.

5. I think the average I saw was 500 miles

I am going to start to do the same exact thing you are doing and I will help you as much as I can if you want. I just did it, but this time I will know what the heck I am doing. Take a ton of pics of your motor right now with everything hooked up. We got the truck basically with everything disconnected and ready to pull the old motor. what a nightmare it is to have 20 things you need to connect and not knowing where to connect them.

 

[dhcomp]

what a nightmare it is to have 20 things you need to connect and not knowing where to connect them.

Know the feeling . But, i've done the intake gasket twice, and touched everythign else on the motor at least once or twice.

So, really, in terms of accessories, etc i should be pretty dialed.

Its mainly the motor part

 

[y5mgisi]

Ok, so i pulled the trigger tonight. Ordered a Crate 350, GM replacement for my motor.

Not going to go into my reasons for not doing a LS motor here. I'd love to do it, but it doesn't' make sense for me right now, on this rig.

That being said, i understand 90% of what has to happen to pull a motor.

What's my best resource for a step by step on the rest?

Actually Im pretty sure there is a fairly good how to on engine R&R on like thirdgen.org or something. I'll look for that later.

1. How does the auto trans connect to the motor, other than the bellhousing? How's the torque converter/flex plate all interface / come apart? Do i unbolt the trans and slide it back, or what? I've never taken apart a trans/motor combo in a truck, but i did pull my 6 speed in my bmw, so i'm not totally in new territory.

Ok, You should have a "dust shield" over the torque converter. Probably the think style. Gotta remove that. Should be 6 bolts plus the two struts that go from the "dust cover" to the motor mounts. After that, remove the starter. After that there are three (maybe 6 on a 4l80e?) bolts that bolt the torque converter to the flax plate. Remove all those. You will have to rotate the engine around to get to all the bolts. They make a flex plate tool just for that.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wmr-w80510?seid=google&gclid=CKe4qPHQj7YCFYx_Qgod1z0Acg

At that point, the engine is free from the trans with the exception of the 6 bellhousing bolts.

2. What do i lift from? I'm getting a hoist. Do i need a leveler thing to drop it back in easily? Do i need some sort of a lifting plate?

There SHOULd be two lifiting rings on either corner of the intake like these,

I use a chain from one of those to the other. IIRC, the front one is on the driver side and the rear one is on the passenger side. If for some reason thats not the case, I pull out the pass rear and driver front intake bolt and thread longer bolts in that i attach the chain with. <--- All of this requires a good degree of comon sense, good judgement, and logic!

There are other/better ways to do it, but thats how i have done it for the past 11 years or so. Other options include getting one of these engine lift plates and drilling it for the TBI pattern,

Another option is to get one of these handy load leveling units (really nice for instal tho i have never had to use one. Another word of caution is that most engine hoists wont lift high enough to use one of these)

As i said though, i have NEVER had to use one. Safe to say at least 90% of people dont bother with them unless they are stabing a trans with the motor. All i ever do is make sure as im putting the motor in that i have positioned the hoist hook on my chain such that it has about 8-10* of rear down tilt and is level side to side. Doesnt have to be perfect as it is pretty easy to manipulate as you get closer to home. You WILL have to man handle it to some degree to get it to line up with the trans/fall into the motor mounts. Its just the way it is. So dont go crazy on over thinking it. Just approach with logic.



3. Do you normally install the intake before dropping it into the truck?

All the time. There is no reason to instal the intake after the fact. Just dont instal the dist until the motor is in or you will break it on the firewall like me. You can pretty much assemble the motor complete with the exception of the throttle body and dist. Other than that, all the front acc can be swapped on the engine stand.

4. What's the easiest way to prime the oil pump before startup? What tools do i need to do this? What other pre-startup rituals are there, other than not forgetting oil?

With the motor your getting, Get one of these,

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-901010/overview/

Just note that with this style, you will have to prime the pump before the motor is installed. Reason being is there isnt enough clearnce above the dist to chuck the drill up to it. If you can find a primer tool like mine that has a 3/8 drive female end on it, you can make it work with a 3/8 universal and one of those 3/8 to drill adapters. Thats how i do it. Like these,

Also remember that if you have an oil cooler, that will need hooked up before you prime the pump.


5. What shoudl break-in be on a new motor like this? I need to tow again as soon as possible, so break-in will probably occur during a daily 30-40 mile each way commute.

Break in will consist of two to three parts. Step one is to start the engine. Use whatever oil you want but you MUST use a break in oil like this,

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-159

There should be strict instructions on initial start up break in with your motor, but the most important thing with initial start up is cam break in! For that, you start the engine and imeadietyl bring it to 2000-2500rpm for 20 minutes with the above break in oil in it. After that, change the oil and filter with whatever oil you plan on running and run another bottle of the break in oil. Run that oil for 500 miles. During that 500 miles (the break in period) drive fairly easy. Progressivly getting harder on it. You dont want to run at a consistant RPM for long periods. So if your on the highway, very your speed and kick it into and out of OD. Dont floor it for at least 500 miles. You need to drive it gently, but you also need to "seat" the rings. So first couple days, real easy stop light to stop light. THe end of 500 miles, You can pretty much floor it. Working your way steadily from gental to agressive during the 500 miles. After the 500 miles, change the oil and filter again with whatever oil you have been using in your current motor. Just be aware (if your not) of the things you need to be aware of running a flat tappet cam with todays oils. And begin your 3000 mile oil change intervals and consider your motor broke in.

Thanks guys!

And scott, if you are reading this, i'm still open to the idea of you installing this for me. Call me up.

All that is what i have always done and im sure guys will have other thoughts on some of it. Take of it what you will. But if you follow all that, you wont have any troubles.

 

[eagle mark]

Hard to beat that for info!

For a oil pump prime tool I cut up an old distributor shaft.

Don't forget the additives for breaking and forever with flat tappet cams, or special oil with Zinc and Phosphorus. There is no oil at store anymore with the additives needed for flat tappet cams.

 

[dhcomp]

Awesome man, thanks for the help.

Are there really only 6 bellhousing bolts?! I think my BMW had like 12.

In regards to the oil additive, i understand it during break in. But are you telling me i should be running an additive all the time, after breakin, with this style cam?

 

[dhcomp]

Further questions.

If i need to hook up my oil cooler, but can't prime the oil pump with teh motor in the truck, what is my best option? Fill it with oil, no cooler, prime it, install, hookup cooler, then top off oil?

Cam Breakin. Sounds like i immediately start it, then bring it up to 2-2500rpms for 20 min. Once i set TDC, install distributor, i'd guess i need to time it at idle before breaking in the cam? What is the thought process behind this?

My credit card is smoking, but hoping to have parts for an easter weekend motor swap. Thanks guys!

 

[454Sub]

If you pulled a BMW motor, you can yank a 350 in your sleep.

You can prime it in the truck, all you need is a old dizzy and a electric drill. Just remove the cam gear and all the counterweights or top crap and viola, 35$ primer tool for free.

Set the timing after cam break in. Get it close obviously, and get it up to 2500 rpm. If its a carb motor, use the idle screws on the throttle linkage and then you can walk away and such. If its EFI, well then you have to hold it there.

 

[eagle mark]

In regards to the oil additive, i understand it during break in. But are you telling me i should be running an additive all the time, after breakin, with this style cam?

Yes! There's only 2 oils I know of that have enough Zinc and Phousphourus for flat tappet cams without additives (some additives are not zinc and phousphorus) Amsoil full synthetic clearly marked with Zinc and phousphorus and Brad Penn racing oil. Neither of which I've ever seen at a store!

My 1990 Suburban has had the Amsoil since I bought it about 10 years ago. It's the only oil in my shop, works in everything including my lawn mower!

These additives have been phased out as pollution causes, also same time roller cams were phased in. Roller cams do not need these additives. The other reason is change in Cat converters, new ones were being harmed by these additives, old ones were not. This is if your engine actually burns oil...

Flat tappet cam engines with small cams and weak springs are less prone to cam lobe and lifter wear then high lift strong springs.

 

[82355]

Did you order the engine yet? I would not buy an engine with a flat tappet cam. Roller cams are better, and they don't go flat.

Martin

 

[dhcomp]

It's been ordered.

Never heard about this oil issue. I've been using good'ol 10w30 since i bought this truck.

Oops.

So, i've got a little bit of an issue running Amsoil (cost wise) in my truck. How's it normally marked on the bottle? Curious to check Mobil 1 in the walmart stock....

Thanks guys!

 

[Keitha]

- The top two bolts on the bellhousing are easiest to access from the top. Pull the distributor, coil, TBI, and all the other items from the top of the motor and it is fairly easy to reach behind it to access the bolts.
- For the torque converter bolts, there are 6. Pull the spark plugs so it is much easier to rotate the motor. You can use a long, stout screwdriver inserted into (behind) the lug of the torque converter at each location where it bolts to the flexplate. This should give you enough leverage to hold it in place while breaking the bolts free. You will know what I am talking about once you get into it.
- Double check that all your wires are free from the rear of the block. Lifting out is much easier than droping it back in. While dropping it back in, it helps (but it takes time) to slide the tranny back a couple inches. Get the motor in place then slide the tranny forward again. There are two big inexing lugs on the tranny that need to fit into holes on the motor. Once you get those lined up it slips into place.
- I install the intake before I drop the block back in.
- It is not hard to prime the motor when installed. I use the same Summit priming tool recomended above. I drop the priming tool inplace, then attach my drill to it and get to it.
- It is all really easy and self explanitory once you start.
Good Luck!

GM Recommended Crate Engine Start-Up Procedure


1. SAFETY FIRST! If the car is on the ground, be sure the emergency brake is set, the
wheels are chocked, and the transmission cannot fall into gear.​

2. Be sure to check the oil level in the engine and prime the oil system with an engine
priming tool! This is the most important step! Your crate engine has most likely sat for a
while and most of it's lubrication has drained back to the pan!​

3. Quality 10W-30 or 10W-40 Oil is recommended for GM's Performance Crate Engines.
Most Stock Factory replacement engines use either 5W-30 or 10W-30 oil. If you plan on
running synthetic oils, we recommend that a new engine is first broken in with regular
mineral type engine oil.​

4. Adjust the distributor timing roughly by hand for quick start up and smoothest idle
possible.​

5. Set the ignition timing after engine starts.- Starting point for most carbureted crate
engines is 10 degrees Before top dead center with vacuum advance disconnected.
Computer controlled engines with a distributor are generally set at 0 degrees before top
dead center with the set timing connector disconnected (refer to your vehicles service
manual for details)​

6. Flat tappet hydraulic cams only- (Such as the 250 hp-350, 290hp-350 & 330hp-350
Run the engine between 2,000 and 2,500 RPM's, with no-load on the engine for the first
30 minutes. This is critical to break in the camshaft.​

7. Roller Cammed engines (such as the ZZ4, F.B. 385, 383's and big blocks) do not need
to follow the procedure in step 6 because roller cams do not need to be broken in.​

8. Remember that the cooling system on a fresh engine swap will have a lot of trapped
air, which will lead to wild temperature gauge readings and possible water pump
cavitation (water pump not moving coolant due to trapped air) To help avoid trapped air
in the cooling system, try to fill the cooling system up with a 50/50 mix of quality coolant
and water a few hours before you plan on starting the engine. Leave the radiator cap off
during this time. This will tend to help purge a fair amount of trapped air before you start
the engine. Specialty fill funnels can also be purchased from Listle tools and Snap-On
dealers that help alleviate this problem. Also helpful during break-in is to use a Lever-
Vent type radiator cap on your radiator in so that you can manually purge trapped air
while engine is running- (use extreme caution to avoid being burned by hot coolant) Your
normal cap can then be re-installed after engine cools off.​

9. Drive the vehicle with varying speeds and loads on the engine for the first 30 miles. Be
sure not to use a lot of throttle or high RPM.
The following 2 steps generally are not necessary due to our advanced piston ring sealing
technology, but can be performed to help ring break in.​

10. Run five or six medium-throttle accelerations to about 3000 RPM (40 to 50 MPH),
then letting off in gear and coasting back down to 20 MPH.
11. Run a couple hard throttle accelerations up to about 5000 RPM (55 to 60 MPH), then
letting off in gear and coasting back down to 20 MPH.​

12. Let engine cool and change the oil and filter and check coolant level, top off if
necessary.​

13. Drive the next 500 miles normally, without high RPM's (below 5000 RPM), hard use,
or extended periods of high loading. 14. Change the oil and oil filter again.- Keep an eye
on oil level during the first thousand or so miles. 15. Your engine is now ready for many​

happy cruising miles!

 

[Smokinthehippies]

It's been ordered.

Never heard about this oil issue. I've been using good'ol 10w30 since i bought this truck.

Oops.

So, i've got a little bit of an issue running Amsoil (cost wise) in my truck. How's it normally marked on the bottle? Curious to check Mobil 1 in the walmart stock....

Thanks guys!

as far as the amsoil goes, i can get dealer cost so maybe i could help you save enough $$ to justify

 

[84400]

When I pulled mine took the hood off and it made removal alot easier. Also to avoid damage i unbolted the tourque converter from the flex plate (3 to 6 boolts) then the bellhousing bolts i got using a 12 inch extention and a swivel 9/16s. The motor can stick on the alignmnet dowls on removial. Also put in new motor mounts at this time. I am going to go with DIY4x mounts when i switch out the 350.
When you bolt them back up do the converter to flex plate bolts first then belhopusing. While the nmotor was out you might wat to replace any front seals on the transmission. It is possible to remove the Tque converter with the motor but you can mess up the sealon the transmission pump.

I have been running Rotella T in my stuff. Soposidly has the highest ZDDP levels in stores. Seems to work well in my gas and diesels. Just gotta let them warm up good in the winter.

 

[y5mgisi]

Also, supposedly, that STP oil addative at the parts stores has high ZDDP. Do a google seach for "flat tapped cam oil" and "ZDDP oils" and stuff like that.

 

[Smokinthehippies]

When I pulled mine took the hood off and it made removal alot easier. Also to avoid damage i unbolted the tourque converter from the flex plate (3 to 6 boolts) then the bellhousing bolts i got using a 12 inch extention and a swivel 9/16s. The motor can stick on the alignmnet dowls on removial. Also put in new motor mounts at this time. I am going to go with DIY4x mounts when i switch out the 350.
When you bolt them back up do the converter to flex plate bolts first then belhopusing. While the nmotor was out you might wat to replace any front seals on the transmission. It is possible to remove the Tque converter with the motor but you can mess up the sealon the transmission pump.

I have been running Rotella T in my stuff. Soposidly has the highest ZDDP levels in stores. Seems to work well in my gas and diesels. Just gotta let them warm up good in the winter.

+1 on hood off if you can, and on un bolting the torque converter. its only a few bolts and you can just leave that heavy lump with the trans.

Yes! There's only 2 oils I know of that have enough Zinc and Phousphourus for flat tappet cams without additives (some additives are not zinc and phousphorus) Amsoil full synthetic clearly marked with Zinc and phousphorus and Brad Penn racing oil. Neither of which I've ever seen at a store!

My 1990 Suburban has had the Amsoil since I bought it about 10 years ago. It's the only oil in my shop, works in everything including my lawn mower!

These additives have been phased out as pollution causes, also same time roller cams were phased in. Roller cams do not need these additives. The other reason is change in Cat converters, new ones were being harmed by these additives, old ones were not. This is if your engine actually burns oil...

Flat tappet cam engines with small cams and weak springs are less prone to cam lobe and lifter wear then high lift strong springs.

this is the amsoil i was looking at, thoughts?

Z-ROD 10W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil
Modern Technology For Classic Cars
AMSOIL Z-ROD™ Synthetic Motor Oil is specially engineered for classic and high-performance vehicles. A high-zinc formulation to prevent wear on flat-tappet camshafts and other critical engine components, along with a proprietary blend of rust and corrosion inhibitors for added protection during long-term storage.

 

[dhcomp]

+1 on hood off if you can,

But what if i mess up my flawless hood gaps / hood paint?











My gaps vary from about 1/8" to probably 1/2", and i'm pretty sure there is various strains of black mold growing in my hood paint

 

[dhcomp]

The mobil 1 chart showing ZDDP levels is here:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

Looked up the Amsoil product data, but can't find any ZDDP count to compare.


EDIT:

Found it.

http://www.amsoil.lube-direct.com/2011/07/high-zinc-oil-amsoil/

Significantly higher than the Extended Performance M1.


EDIT again.

Gotta look at this when i have more time. Not focusing while at work. THe m1 chart has 2 columns, zinc and phosporous. Not sure how to compare that to ZDDP. Maybe add the 2 together? If so, i could run the extended performance m1 from walmart.

4 or 5 qt jugs are a requirement for me. I can't do single qt bottles. Where the hell do i put the old oil if i use single qt bottles?

 

[82355]

Seeing as you are in rust free California, I would pull the radiator support as well. It isn't much work, and makes it a much easier job.

Martin