Moving engine and trans back a few???

[TruckNutzDude]

As mentioned, shifting the driveline won't change your CG at all, but it will affect the weight bias.....probably in a pretty small way though.

Adding "lightness" might be an easier way to go. Remove all the weight you can up front and you'll probably shift the weight bias in a more meaningful way.

This is the best picture I have showing weight bias (this is before the bed) You can see the t-case hanging down below the frame, the rear output yoke of the t-case is the center point of my rig (roughly the middle of the seats). Like I said, the goal is not to lower my CG it is to change the weight bias and add extra length to the front driveshaft.

I would move the front axle forward more but with my low suspension setup the spring pad would contact the drag link end and pitman arm leaving me with less than 1" of uptravel (I only have 3" of uptravel at the moment). I would have to move the axle more than 6" forward to clear the DLE but then I run into problems with steering since the box 6" or more behind where it should be. I could cut and stretch the frame, moving the axle, steering box and leaf springs while leaving the engine where it is, the drawback with that is obviously cutting the frame.

I do appreciate everyone's opinion, I guess I'm thinking outside the box on this one?

 

[cybrfire]

Sounds like ya got it pretty gutted as is.

Just from looking at the picture, only a few things that really jump out.

Get rid of the glass windshield and go to a lexan. Fairly close to your centerline so it won't have as big of an effect.

Biggest one I see for bias, and I said it before, Radiator. 2 gallons of water is what? 16lbs. The radiator itself is Maybe 20?? That's a 60-70 lbs. shift in bias depending on where ya put it back in at. It goes further though. Do you have an electric fan or engine driven, ie, clutch or flex? You can put the electric in the back now too. Now ya got 3-5 inches in front of the engine, Move some front body mounts and that can move toward the rear abit. Not gona change the bias much at all but you get better visibility. Tapering the front removes quite a bit of sheet metal and core support and with no radiator in there its much easier to do. Your on your way.

 

[deadlew]

How much work are you wanting to do? Just a thought remove the cab and body work, move your engine/tranny/t-case back till both drive shafts are the same length, then remount the cab and body work in line with the motor and so on. Extend steering shaft to the box. But then it would look like the tellico hybrids.

PaulC

 

[TruckNutzDude]

I've got a smaller 4 row radiator from a car I was thinking of mounting behind the cab. I'm a little unsure on where to route the coolant lines and what material to use for them. Do you have any pics of your setup Kert?

I also thought of taking the body off (rockers are 2x3 and welded to frame at six points) and moving the engine around until my 'shafts were the same length. I'd like to keep this somewhat looking like a normal truck because I'm lacking a trailer and tow rig at the moment. Having a buggy does seem like a great idea but the snow, rain and below freezing temps here make winter wheeling almost impossible without good heat.

 

[cybrfire]

I've got a smaller 4 row radiator from a car I was thinking of mounting behind the cab. I'm a little unsure on where to route the coolant lines and what material to use for them. Do you have any pics of your setup Kert?

I also thought of taking the body off (rockers are 2x3 and welded to frame at six points) and moving the engine around until my 'shafts were the same length. I'd like to keep this somewhat looking like a normal truck because I'm lacking a trailer and tow rig at the moment. Having a buggy does seem like a great idea but the snow, rain and below freezing temps here make winter wheeling almost impossible without good heat.

I used some aluminum tubing I found laying in the JY. Difficult to bend but I figured it could just as well dump some extra heat on the way back. Exhaust tubing would work OK too. Anti freeze is supposed to have rust inhibitors in it so should last quite a while. Cheap to replace. Just tuck it up high so it don't get whacked.

What would be really slick is if you got rid of your under dash heater and put a mojave type heater behind the seats. Plumb your water lines through the cab or right below it and run the heater lines off of the new radiator lines at the back of the cab. Might loose some heat depending on what you do your lines with. In the winter you could insulate the lines to preserve heat for in cab purposes. I might just do this sometime. At any rate it helps your bias even more, gets rid of firewall clutter.

Biggest drawback to moving the cab back, other than the work, is the loss of visibility.

 

[cybrfire]

These are the only pictures i have of the aluminum tubing. Looks alot like exhaust, however, there is some rubber strapping wrapped around the tubing at the mount clamps. Any place there was a sharp bend we used a section of radiator hose to make the turn. A good exhaust guy could make it all out of one piece I'd imagine.

Second picture you can see the front most part of the tubing.

My tcase is leaking!

 

[muddermilitia]

hijack: kert who's doubler kit are you using?

 

[cybrfire]

hijack: kert who's doubler kit are you using?

I don't want to say. Wasn't happy with it, it works but I've seen better quality work. Some design elements were kinda iffy. So, I won't advertise for or against.

Hijack off.

 

[mikey_d05]

Do you carry trail spares or tools? When I wheeled a blazer the toolbox was right behind the front seats. Now I have my toolbox ALL the way at the back.

That was mostly done because it was the easiest way, but there is one hill at the local OHV park that my blazer would pick the rear tires up an inch or so every single time I went down it. I don't have that problem anymore.

Also, I disagree with moving the rear axle forward. Puts more weight on the rear? Technically yes, but I would assume if he's talking about improving weight bias he's looking for it to climb and descend better than it does, which a longer wheelbase would help with. I've wheeled a rig at 109.5" and 115". While the rigs are incredibly different, I much prefer 115" except in tight trees.

 

[cybrfire]

I agree on the rear going forward being bad. It would help the bias but is a bad idea. I just mentioned it for sake of discussion.

 

[3 on the tree]

Divorced T case? That would lengthen your front shaft AND move 200(?) pounds further back.

 

[Greg72]

Divorced T case? That would lengthen your front shaft AND move 200(?) pounds further back.

THAT is a pretty interesting idea!

Probably a lot easier than most of the other ways to move weight....and addresses the more immediate concern which appears to be front driveline angularity.

 

[3 on the tree]

THAT is a pretty interesting idea!

Probably a lot easier than most of the other ways to move weight....and addresses the more immediate concern which appears to be front driveline angularity.

I would do some checking. Find out if inputs are interchangable between Ford and Chevy 205s. Use a Ford T case X member as a starting point for mounting. Ford used the divorced 205 cases in the mid 60s-early 70s, so there are quite a few out there. I know the drop is on the wrong side, but I wonder if you could just swap input shafts and retainers to make a divorced Chevy 205?

 

[muddermilitia]

if you use a dodge divorced 205 it will have the correct side drop

 

[TruckNutzDude]

I know where there's a divorced 205 out of an International... I don't get along with the guy too well (previous employer) but I still talk with some of the guys that work there so maybe they can snag it for me. I was thinking about this today while discussing some low range options for a friend's YJ... Maybe cut the front output off the 205 I currently have, make a blockoff plate (crawlerbox style) and then run a divorced case behind that? Would be like a doubler only about $800 less.

 

[cybrfire]

Dodge cases the Yokes can easily be swapped out for different styles. Flange or what not.

Mounted a divorced 205 in my crew cab not so long ago. One thing to watch out for is the floor boards can cause ya grief for keeping a divorced case tucked up inside the frame rails. Course not much to reworking the floor a bit in a trail rig. Little different in my Crew cab.