Moving the axle forward with stock drag link

[Shawn]

Since I acquired the M1008, one goal was to put a mild lift on it with 37" tires and keep the sway bar and stock push/pull steering and keep it on low budget. I recently purchased 4" Tuff Country springs (stock length) with the ORD zero rates for front and rear. I was going to move the axle 1" to 1.5" to help with firewall clearance but I'm not sure thats possible with the short stock drag link. I know it can be done but I'm afraid the steering will REALLY suck compared to what it is now (stock). Now I'm debating on going crossover. I know its a better solution but I really didn't want to spend more $$$ for a mostly street truck that will be used as a daily driver. I remember driving my K5 with the stock drag link and it wasn't always the best but it was ok for the street. Definitely not the best for tight turning. I also realize I will have to modify the sway bar links to fit or ditch the front sway bar even with the push/pull setup and I know its impossible with crossover.

Has anyone pushed their axle forward with the stock drag link and if so, how bad was the steering? I realize my turning radius might suffer. I do have the dropped 4WD pitman arm and will be using the stock D60 steering arm. Or should I just keep the axle in the stock location for now until I go crossover?

Also... why hasn't any company come out with a custom pitman arm for crossover that fits on a 4WD box?

 

[nvrenuf]

Seems like I've read that shortening the drag link like you've described will increase bump steer significantly. Also, I would think you'd have to cut the drag link ends down to keep them from bottoming out on each other.

As for the pitman arm, once upon a time someone (http://jkwoffroad.com/ maybe?) was making a 4wd box crossover arm but for some reason it never caught on. Not sure why, seems like a good idea. The shaft is only splined about a 1/3 of the way around so maybe it tried to move but I would think the pinch bolt in the groove would help to hold as well as clamp.

 

[obijuank5]

You need to shorten both drag link ends so it doesn't bottom out and it will drive ok. Don't plan on sick flexin.

 

[nvrenuf]

The pitman arm was definitely JKW, I found this 15 yr old thread - https://ck5.com/forums/threads/pitman-arm-for-crossover.64398/ It's not on their site but maybe they'd make you one.

 

[Vombrown]

OK here's some things I will add after building about 8 CUCV 1008's. If you are really going to daily drive it, with 4" of lift and 37" military take off's it's gonna suck, hardcore suck. Without crossover steering I wouldn't do it. Better suited to the occasional run into to town playboy than a daily driver and I drove one every day for 5 years. If it's stock, it will be gutless. Then add the bump steer and the bouncy nature of the 37's and you got a recipe for suck...LOL.


I started with something like that setup and after a month or two of ALMOST getting in a bind with it here is what I came up with and it worked like a charm, although it certainly isn't for everyone I know. I am assuming you are running a stock type 16.5" wheel and not H1's with spacer. Either way, I removed the 4" lift and put zero rates all around. Trimmed my fenders and it honestly didn't take much to get them happy in there and I was eventually running 38 IROKS the same way after I got rid of the 37" take offs. Power still sucked with the 6.2, no way around that...LOL. I drove this setup for years and was always happy with it.

 

[obijuank5]

For what it's worth, my 1008 drove great.
Nutless but ok.

 

[TreeFarm]

My truck is stock with a 1" AAL pushing the axle 1" forward and 37"s. I cut about 1" off the threads of both rod ends of the drag link to make it short enough to keep the wheel straight. Steering is fine driving around. I notice a little bit more bump steer from the shorter link but nothing bad.

 

[Shawn]

Great info!

Its like a can of worms with these trucks. I call it the snowball effect. Do one thing and it affects something else, might as well upgrade this, then that while its apart... Viscous cycle.

Anyway its tempting to return the 4wd pitman arm for $100 and get the entire crossover from ORD and just say screw it and pay the money and lose my sway bar. Already spent way too much on all the parts so the other part of me says just deal with the shitty steering for now and upgrade later. I don't know...

As for tires, they are not military. They will be on existing 17" wheels and doing some cheaper Ironman rubber for $184 each.
https://www.tirebuyer.com/tires/ironman/all-country-m-t/p/tv153000713

Yeah this thing needs a turbo. Pretty gutless but I knew that buying it.

Thanks for all the advice!

 

[Shawn]

BTW I tried to contact JKW and no luck. Can't find phone #

 

[Vombrown]

Great info!

Its like a can of worms with these trucks. I call it the snowball effect. Do one thing and it affects something else, might as well upgrade this, then that while its apart... Viscous cycle.

Anyway its tempting to return the 4wd pitman arm for $100 and get the entire crossover from ORD and just say screw it and pay the money and lose my sway bar. Already spent way too much on all the parts so the other part of me says just deal with the shitty steering for now and upgrade later. I don't know...

As for tires, they are not military. They will be on existing 17" wheels and doing some cheaper Ironman rubber for $184 each.
https://www.tirebuyer.com/tires/ironman/all-country-m-t/p/tv153000713

Yeah this thing needs a turbo. Pretty gutless but I knew that buying it.

Thanks for all the advice!

That is the reason I went to the IROKS after the military tires. You could always just put it together and try it. It might be tolerable for you. Mine was not, especially not at highway speeds. Might be something you can live with for a while.

 

[muddermilitia]

I know I posted this in Shawn's build thread, but I'll post here for anybody working on something similar. My M1009 that I used to have, was great on the road. So great that I drove it daily, 60 miles per day, for several years and added over 50,000 miles on it after the lift and tires. Yes, 3.08 gearing so I know that changes some things compared to the 4.56s you have. But it was awesome. Didn't really notice much bump steer. The tires I had internally balanced with Equal. They still had a out of balance condition at about 30mph but was fine at other speeds. I did 70mph with it on the highway 5 days a week.

This was with 4" Tuff Country HD springs in front, stock rear springs in back with DIY4X shackle flip. Tuff country nitro shocks. Raised steering arm. Double CV rear drive shaft. Damn I miss that truck

 

[jekquistk5]

I know I posted this in Shawn's build thread, but I'll post here for anybody working on something similar. My M1009 that I used to have, was great on the road. So great that I drove it daily, 60 miles per day, for several years and added over 50,000 miles on it after the lift and tires. Yes, 3.08 gearing so I know that changes some things compared to the 4.56s you have. But it was awesome. Didn't really notice much bump steer. The tires I had internally balanced with Equal. They still had a out of balance condition at about 30mph but was fine at other speeds. I did 70mph with it on the highway 5 days a week.

This was with 4" Tuff Country HD springs in front, stock rear springs in back with DIY4X shackle flip. Tuff country nitro shocks. Raised steering arm. Double CV rear drive shaft. Damn I miss that truck

buy another

 

[Shawn]

I know I posted this in Shawn's build thread, but I'll post here for anybody working on something similar. My M1009 that I used to have, was great on the road. So great that I drove it daily, 60 miles per day, for several years and added over 50,000 miles on it after the lift and tires. Yes, 3.08 gearing so I know that changes some things compared to the 4.56s you have. But it was awesome. Didn't really notice much bump steer. The tires I had internally balanced with Equal. They still had a out of balance condition at about 30mph but was fine at other speeds. I did 70mph with it on the highway 5 days a week.

This was with 4" Tuff Country HD springs in front, stock rear springs in back with DIY4X shackle flip. Tuff country nitro shocks. Raised steering arm. Double CV rear drive shaft. Damn I miss that truck

Good info. How did you like the ride with the Tuff Country springs? I almost went with the ORD Alcan option but trying to keep this on a budget.

 

[6.2Blazer]

Really wouldn't think shortening the drag link up 1" would cause any serious issues, especially for street driving.

In regards to making a steering arm that bolts on to a 4wd box but can be used for cross-over there simply isn't much of a market. It's hard to make any money on a specialty aftermarket piece of equipment when you are competing with the other option of going to a junkyard and buying a 2wd box for $50 that will bolt right up and work just as good. Heck, you can get a "new" rebuilt box at Advance Auto for just over $100 after discounts and bolt it on.

 

[Shawn]

Really wouldn't think shortening the drag link up 1" would cause any serious issues, especially for street driving.

In regards to making a steering arm that bolts on to a 4wd box but can be used for cross-over there simply isn't much of a market. It's hard to make any money on a specialty aftermarket piece of equipment when you are competing with the other option of going to a junkyard and buying a 2wd box for $50 that will bolt right up and work just as good. Heck, you can get a "new" rebuilt box at Advance Auto for just over $100 after discounts and bolt it on.

Agree. Just wishful thinking. JKW did email me back and said they don't make them anymore. Probably wasn't worth their time.

So moving the axle up 1" should be ok.

 

[Shawn]

Update: Did the lift and moved the axle forward 1" but the stock sway bar would not bolt up. If I had ORD's sway bar disconnect it probably would. Removed the sway bar for now. Still need to swap the pitman arm or just go crossover. Picture is with stock pitman arm and drag link for temp use only.

 

[muddermilitia]

Good info. How did you like the ride with the Tuff Country springs? I almost went with the ORD Alcan option but trying to keep this on a budget.

This truck had Tuff Country HD springs and I left the sway bar on. I went with HD because of the diesel engine and also I was thinking of putting a winch on it. It rode pretty good. My previous truck was an 89 k5 with a gas motor. It had Tuff Country EZ ride springs and no sway bar. I think that truck rode a little better.

 

[Shawn]

This truck had Tuff Country HD springs and I left the sway bar on. I went with HD because of the diesel engine and also I was thinking of putting a winch on it. It rode pretty good. My previous truck was an 89 k5 with a gas motor. It had Tuff Country EZ ride springs and no sway bar. I think that truck rode a little better.

I went with the EZ ride springs. The diesel only weighs 75 lbs more than SBC and less than BBC and I'd rather have a smoother ride. If I was doing a Cummins swap then I'd go HD springs or running more stuff on front such as heavy bumper and winch.

 

[K85 Octane]

Meh, I had 4" EZs with a winch and bumper, rode great. No swaybay either. Honestly, drive it and see if you can do without. Might surprise yourself. If you do try to put it on, try to link it at the axle. Don't do the disconnects, really really try to run a couple of heims on each side and link it. It will help the swaybar rotate WITH the axle instead of on it's own radius.

 

[muddermilitia]

I went with the EZ ride springs. The diesel only weighs 75 lbs more than SBC and less than BBC and I'd rather have a smoother ride. If I was doing a Cummins swap then I'd go HD springs or running more stuff on front such as heavy bumper and winch.

I was more worried about them sagging out and then the front end sitting too low. Which the passenger side did sit lower than I would have liked because of the dual batteries on that side