The thing gets it for sure
Hes not kidding about killing the raptor either. The dude had it pinned, and nate had only 2wd and we wasted him
Oh man
I was supposed to be in 2wd...Next year I'll get those clever raptors.
CK5
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Mr. Clean's dune cruising 71' K5 "Oprah" beams, links, and turbo ls powwwa
- Thread starter Mr.Clean
- Start date
Oh man
I was supposed to be in 2wd...Next year I'll get those clever raptors.
Pin it to win it Richard
First of all that rig sounds like a good deal for the right price, it looks pretty solid and it's a nice old blazer! sweet score!
Eric, why are you using the ford bushings when building radius arms from scratch? Or are you beefing up a set for an axle that already has them?
Nate, the main reason those radius arms look so weak is because the tubing is bent and not braced and sticks down way too far because of the huge lift. 2 x .250 wall is what I used, but it isn't bent, it's straight. Tubing that is already bent is much weaker to bend more. If you cut off the axle mounts and rotate them and use some straight material it will probably be fine. Or just brace them at the bend with another tube. But if you keep an eye on it for cracks or more damage you should see if it is holding up.
And for the dunes I don't think you will see one benefit to switch from radius arms to 3 link. Maybe if you were rock crawling but rock crawling is too slow!
I guess those radius arms you can't disconnect one upper link, if you could do that then the only benefit to a 3 link would be the lower IC/anti dive numbers and maybe less roll steer depending on how each are setup.
Eric, why are you using the ford bushings when building radius arms from scratch? Or are you beefing up a set for an axle that already has them?
Nate, the main reason those radius arms look so weak is because the tubing is bent and not braced and sticks down way too far because of the huge lift. 2 x .250 wall is what I used, but it isn't bent, it's straight. Tubing that is already bent is much weaker to bend more. If you cut off the axle mounts and rotate them and use some straight material it will probably be fine. Or just brace them at the bend with another tube. But if you keep an eye on it for cracks or more damage you should see if it is holding up.
And for the dunes I don't think you will see one benefit to switch from radius arms to 3 link. Maybe if you were rock crawling but rock crawling is too slow!
I guess those radius arms you can't disconnect one upper link, if you could do that then the only benefit to a 3 link would be the lower IC/anti dive numbers and maybe less roll steer depending on how each are setup.
Cause the customer is always right. That one was a paying job and he didn't want the extra cost of a 3 link put em on a 69 Ford. He had a high pinion 44 with the c bushings on. Sucks cause they were the welded on Cs not the cast in ones.
I am fine with radius arms but that frod c bushing needs to go.
What does the bushing hurt? Just curious..
Nothing Adam in my time on a flexy rig I have seen those c bushings wear out in a year. Seen em actually fall out in below zero weather. Seen them tear on the inside and drive me nuts trying to find out why the truck was wandering. Besides that the stuff you gotta weld to make me semi uncomfortable. I put as much surface area as possible to original cut up c.
Just an older design that simply using 2 builder bushings one top and one bottom seems a much better idea to me. Also I hate the inability to adjust it.
If Nate braces that thing up some it will be fine. Heath is right that bend is awful not even sure why they did it. Brace up the bend and rock and roll
IMO they put the bend in it so they had the correct angle of the axle while still using the c's.
I think if and or when nates bend/break etc, it would be simple enough to do one straight bar from the crossmember mount to the bottom of the axle. And then an adjustable link that goes from the top of the axle to somewhere in the middle of the lower link. I see no reason to run expensive joints at the axle end. Poly bushings would be fine IMO, and soak up vibrations.
I think if and or when nates bend/break etc, it would be simple enough to do one straight bar from the crossmember mount to the bottom of the axle. And then an adjustable link that goes from the top of the axle to somewhere in the middle of the lower link. I see no reason to run expensive joints at the axle end. Poly bushings would be fine IMO, and soak up vibrations.
So first statement I agree with which shows very little understanding about overall suspension design. Seeing the set up in person is different then just pictures. You guys are capable of judging if its gonna hold up or not.
But if it breaks its going to take out alot of other stuff too. I guarantee at least one shock. Maybe both. Thats why I am in favor of a rebuild sooner than later.
There is only one reason to run heims everywhere and it is simply strength. Bushings still have movement in them so they can get squished. I really don't think Oprah gonna have a problem with this though. I would use bushings at the axle end too
I agree Eric, 2 bushings on each side is better and more adjustable than the old Ford c bushing.
And yes Adam, I agree they had to have done the bend to correct the pinion/caster angle, however, if they can fab all that why didn't they rotate the bushing parts on the axle and use a straight tube?
Adam, those radius arms in the pic look mighty familiar!
BTW, with a radius arm you almost have to use bushings at the axle end for a 4x4 or it will have almost zero articulation because they will work like a ladder bar and limit the axle from articulating. The bushings give you the articulation back, or you can disconnect one upper link in the newer style and get all the articulation back, basically like a 3 link. So actually there is a reason not to run expensive ends on the axle end, unless of course you want to turn the entire axle into a giant anti-sway bar, then by all means use heim joints on the axle end of a radius arm setup.
And yes Adam, I agree they had to have done the bend to correct the pinion/caster angle, however, if they can fab all that why didn't they rotate the bushing parts on the axle and use a straight tube?
Adam, those radius arms in the pic look mighty familiar!
BTW, with a radius arm you almost have to use bushings at the axle end for a 4x4 or it will have almost zero articulation because they will work like a ladder bar and limit the axle from articulating. The bushings give you the articulation back, or you can disconnect one upper link in the newer style and get all the articulation back, basically like a 3 link. So actually there is a reason not to run expensive ends on the axle end, unless of course you want to turn the entire axle into a giant anti-sway bar, then by all means use heim joints on the axle end of a radius arm setup.
I agree Eric, 2 bushings on each side is better and more adjustable than the old Ford c bushing.
And yes Adam, I agree they had to have done the bend to correct the pinion/caster angle, however, if they can fab all that why didn't they rotate the bushing parts on the axle and use a straight tube?
Adam, those radius arms in the pic look mighty familiar!
BTW, with a radius arm you almost have to use bushings at the axle end for a 4x4 or it will have almost zero articulation because they will work like a ladder bar and limit the axle from articulating. The bushings give you the articulation back, or you can disconnect one upper link in the newer style and get all the articulation back, basically like a 3 link. So actually there is a reason not to run expensive ends on the axle end, unless of course you want to turn the entire axle into a giant anti-sway bar, then by all means use heim joints on the axle end of a radius arm setup.
I dont' see why you couldn't use heims on the axle. But at that point why not just 3 link it if you are spending all that money on heims. When I think radius arms I think bushings on axle, and a bushing or heim on the frame side arm.
I'll try to explain. Imagine a radius arm setup bolted to the axle, but the axle just sitting on the ground with two radius arms sticking out from the axle tubes, no vehicle is involved. You can imagine it has heims as well for now, 4 heims total, two on each side. Now imagine putting 3 infinitely heavy weights on that assembly, one on each end of the axle, and then one on the end of one of the radius arms. So the axle is basically stuck to the ground at three points, both brake rotors, and one radius arm end (the end that would normally attach to the frame). Now what would happen if you tried to lift or even jack the other radius arm off the ground? You couldn't do it with heim joints, because it would be solid. You could move it side to side (which is what the panhard bar controls), but you could not lift it.
This is exactly what would happen if you tried to articulate a radius arm suspension that was mounted solidly to the axle with heims, and what the "bind" is that is inherent with radius arms, it turns the entire axle into a sway bar. With heims on the axle end, it can't articulate unless something bends. Now, you could lift it with some resistance if you put bushings in there because they flex easier than the axle, or you could lift it with zero resistance if you disconnected the upper link on that one arm.
Does this make more sense on why you shouldn't use heims on the axle end of the radius arm? You could use heims on just the lower links for better axle control with bushings on the upper short links, or you could use all heims if you left one upper arm out and just connected to the axle at three points.
And sometimes a radius arm fits the application better because it is easier to package, that is really the main reason to use it vs a 3 link. Thats why I did it, I was not willing to give up my long tube headers for the 3rd link, and I have no regrets on that for how I use my truck. A 3 link is like a radius arm with only one upper arm, only the 3 link you can more easily reduce the antidive by spreading the vertical seperation of the arms at the frame side and moving the IC further from the axle and/or lowering it, thus reducing the antidive.
y5mgisi
1 ton status
Good explanation Heath. I first learned about proper radius arm setup playing with Legos as a kid!
Im gonna gusset the bend and run em.
Hey Nate just wanted to say that it seems like I have criticized your new ride a bunch I dont mean it like that. You got to remember when I am building something cool its usually for a customer. If said customer bends my suspension link and ruins something else they get pissed at me.
Of course if said customer bends his frame around the parts I built he is impressed.
So I tend to build thinking literally years into the future and wanting my peices not ever to need to be redone.
One of these days you guys need to buy a semi and truck out here to Idaho we simply have the most bad ass dunes there are. I am not 30 minutes away like I used to be but only a couple hours away now
Of course if said customer bends his frame around the parts I built he is impressed.
So I tend to build thinking literally years into the future and wanting my peices not ever to need to be redone.
One of these days you guys need to buy a semi and truck out here to Idaho we simply have the most bad ass dunes there are. I am not 30 minutes away like I used to be but only a couple hours away now
No apologies needed
i appreciate the input and differrent thought process that someone with years of knowledge and building rigs brings. I wont argue one bit with anything you have stated in here. Me personaly i like to learn by pushing something to its limits and finding what its limit was and why it failed and how it can be improved. I understand where your coming from in that you can say first hand this does/ or does not work in your experiences. I know it may cost me more in the long run by choosing to ignore some advice while yet taking some advise, but in the end im going to come out knowing personally why that was bad and why it failed. Rather then saying to myself well im doing this because so and so said so. Plus what works or doesnt work for one person on here may not be true to the next. We all run different terrains and environments and we all expect different things out of our rigs. So if saturday i snap both those arms break both my front shocks, and burry the front end into a dune i'll shamefully admit you told me so. But! I'll definetly know first hand why you dont run bent radius arms I really feel that these arms will be fine for what it is that i do in the dunes....for now. Saturday is gonna be the last dune trip of the year and i am planning on putting the rig through as much abuse i can to try and find any weak links that way over the next 6 months its in the shop i can be fixing them. So if i dont bend those arms saturday they'll be good. If i do bend them, well i have 6 months to rethink it.
Keep the input and advise coming. Im not offended one bit.
And as far as making it out west to run with alot of you guys its def something deuling and i have talked about and hopefully in the next few years can make happen. Im working on getting my hands on a 40' triple axle trailer right now that Deulings and my blazer could both fit on nicely for a trip out west. The big thing for both of us is the amount of vacation time we would be using up.
As long as we're all dreaming and blowing piles of future vacation and fuel money lets just shoot big and all meet in Glamis...
If this is fake money and fake vacation...cya next summer haha. I expect to be able to head west in 2-3 years for a big trip. I've been thinking and planning things in my mind for a while and i want to make it a reality before to long.
