Starving for fuel. Pull the fuel filter and check there...betcha got some crud. It runs until the float bowls dry up, then starves and dies. I bet it'd die faster if you revved it a few times.
CK5
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My '70 C/10 - The Rat Bastard... [Won't Idle.]
- Thread starter TheBeast_88K5
- Start date
TheBeast_88K5
Banned
Exactly....
I romped it and it died IMMEDIATELY.
After that, I eased it up to 1500RPM, and it died.
Alright.... Fuel.
Thanks.
79rustyk10
3/4 ton status
Is the fuel pump good? I had all kinds of issues with them going bad on my nova.
Those screws only work for the idle circuit, not the primary circuit (part throttle, or cruise), or WOT. But leaning the idle screws (turning them in, cuts off the fuel flow) adjustments may help keep the engine from dying or running rich in higher elevations
Dammit,... So, I actually need my own vacuum guage?
you don't NEED one, but it along with a tachometer that you can watch while you make adjustments will help you see what your doing while turning those screws.
As I understand it, there's basically the two flavors of vacuum, either ported or manifold. Ported changes with throttle, so you use that for the dizzy and emissions, but manifold is usually for the PCV, the vacuum accumulator ball used for the climate controls, and I think the power brakes.
I know there's a ton of connectors on the carb in various sizes, but they're either the one vacuum or the other, based on whether they're above the throttle plate or below, so it's not as complicated as it seems on the surface.
At least that's my theory.
-- A
Correct on the vac sources, although some prefer to run vac advance from the manifold vacuum, not ported....it depends on how the engine components/distributor timing curve/tuning are all set up with each other.
Do you have open exhaust? Seems a bit off to me by listening to it (timing) but I don't think the sound ever comes across to good on a video anyway???
Is the engine up to operating temp and the choke fully open?....Are the throttle blades (primary) fully closed when the engine is off?
If you have a tach, hook it up (to coil negative and engine ground) and keep the rpm under 800 if possible. Hook up the vacuum gauge if you have one available to manifold vacuum (below the throttle blades), not ported (above the throttle blades) If you have to turn the idle speed screw up to keep the engine running, your probably getting into the transition circuit between idle and part throttle (cruise) so your mixture screw settings will have negligible effect on idle quality.
Anytime you change the static timing (at idle) more than a couple degrees, you should re calibrate your idle mixture screws to get the best idle.
Did you end up at 16* BTDC at idle?
What are the cam specs for duration @ .050 and LSA?
TheBeast_88K5
Banned
- Yea... Open shorty headers.
- no... Thats slightly below Op-Temp, with the choke at 1/2... I have a manual choke.
- ill have to check the blades.
- Its at 16*BTDC, at idle.
- Not sure on the cam specs... I remember it being slightly larger than a factory 330hp/402 cam.
- no... Thats slightly below Op-Temp, with the choke at 1/2... I have a manual choke.
- ill have to check the blades.
- Its at 16*BTDC, at idle.
- Not sure on the cam specs... I remember it being slightly larger than a factory 330hp/402 cam.
where did you come up with 16? you should have 32 to 35 total all in at 3000+ rpm's... as Dave said, timing needs to be right before you worry about carb tuning, etc... too retarded will cause overheating, etc... how does it spin over and start? smooth? does it crank a lot before catching, or a couple pedal pumps, couple revolutions and light off?
the air cleaner means nothing.. and once you get over a 100 degrees, open the choke fully.. when it dies, immediately go work the throttle and look down the carb to see if it squirts.. it shouldn't cuz the bowl should be empty as Rene said.. that verifies the fuel issue...
I take it you are running off the tank? you may wanna eliminate that from the equation.. take a section of fuel hose from your pump and put it right in a gallon of gas on the ground and not from the hardline to the tank and try to run it..
the air cleaner means nothing.. and once you get over a 100 degrees, open the choke fully.. when it dies, immediately go work the throttle and look down the carb to see if it squirts.. it shouldn't cuz the bowl should be empty as Rene said.. that verifies the fuel issue...
I take it you are running off the tank? you may wanna eliminate that from the equation.. take a section of fuel hose from your pump and put it right in a gallon of gas on the ground and not from the hardline to the tank and try to run it..
TheBeast_88K5
Banned
Its running off a gas can.
Sorry about the lack of reply, I was at a Concert.
I drank a bit.... So, I'll get back to this serious in the AM.
To start it, I just give it a small pedal pump, maybe 1/3 of the throttle.
And, then crank it... It fires right up, maybe one crankshaft revolution before starting.
Like it "should" in my opinion.
I really suspect gas, to be the issue.
Oh... And all the Big Block guys kept telling me 16* initial timing.
Thats where i got that from.
I figured that SHOULD get it running long enough to get it dialed in.
But, noooooo......
Sorry about the lack of reply, I was at a Concert.
I drank a bit.... So, I'll get back to this serious in the AM.
To start it, I just give it a small pedal pump, maybe 1/3 of the throttle.
And, then crank it... It fires right up, maybe one crankshaft revolution before starting.
Like it "should" in my opinion.
I really suspect gas, to be the issue.
Oh... And all the Big Block guys kept telling me 16* initial timing.
Thats where i got that from.
I figured that SHOULD get it running long enough to get it dialed in.
But, noooooo......
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doh, now I see the can.. 
that's a ton of timing.. this is all dependent on what the dizzy curve/weight setup the dizzy has too, but still, that's seriously nasty, lumpy cam territory there most often.. and I'm pretty certain your cam isn't even close to that.. I'm betting you put that under hard load, and it'll be pinging like an SOB..
almost every BB, and SB's too, from the early gens I've ever worked on was between 4 and 10 BTDC... 12ish with a decent cam sometimes.. it takes a pretty good lope to need total timing up in the 40+ all in range..
my 69 396's stock spec was 4 BTDC... I ran a pretty nasty, solid cam in that and I didn't run close to the timing your running..
what dizzy is that, stock with external coil?
that's a ton of timing.. this is all dependent on what the dizzy curve/weight setup the dizzy has too, but still, that's seriously nasty, lumpy cam territory there most often.. and I'm pretty certain your cam isn't even close to that.. I'm betting you put that under hard load, and it'll be pinging like an SOB..
almost every BB, and SB's too, from the early gens I've ever worked on was between 4 and 10 BTDC... 12ish with a decent cam sometimes.. it takes a pretty good lope to need total timing up in the 40+ all in range..
my 69 396's stock spec was 4 BTDC... I ran a pretty nasty, solid cam in that and I didn't run close to the timing your running..
what dizzy is that, stock with external coil?
16* might be what it needs to be at...again depends on cam timing, and what it wants....that may fall anywhere between 10 and 20, but as Paul mentions when you get up to 3000 rpm with vac advance disconnected and plugged (so no vac leak) you should be in the 32-36 range total advance (initial + mechanical) any more than that and you could risk detonation on pump gas...if you have 20* of distributor advance timing (the weights under the rotor) you might be good at 16* initial, if you have more, you made need to put a bushing in the weights, to not allow so much mechanical advance, or you could tack a weld on the hole to allow it to not advance as far. If your less than 20* mechanical you could open that slot up some to allow more advance.Its running off a gas can.
Sorry about the lack of reply, I was at a Concert.
I drank a bit.... So, I'll get back to this serious in the AM.
To start it, I just give it a small pedal pump, maybe 1/3 of the throttle.
And, then crank it... It fires right up, maybe one crankshaft revolution before starting.
Like it "should" in my opinion.
I really suspect gas, to be the issue.
Oh... And all the Big Block guys kept telling me 16* initial timing.
Thats where i got that from.
I figured that SHOULD get it running long enough to get it dialed in.
But, noooooo......
In your truck being a lightweight compared to many (2wd std cab) you may be able to run a little more aggressive timing curve (the rate at which mechanical weights advance the timing) It may be a trial and tune type of thing. You'll have to see what the engine wants, if there is detonation, you know you gotta back off some...if your in gear and do a part throttle acceleration from stop, and it rattles, back off on the initial timing a couple degrees (from your 16*)...you just have to experiment and listen to the engine. Once you get the initial where the engine is happy, then start adjusting the total advance and shoot for the 32-36 mark...36 Maximum on a street iron head BBC on pump gas. My 461 in the Maiden is really happy at 16* initial and 36* total in by 3400 (my truck is HEAVY) but my cam has a bit of overlap to bleed off low rpm cylinder pressure as well, so detonation isn't as prevalent as a tighter cam with higher cylinder pressures at low rpm, which I suspect yours to be, to build torque quicker.
TheBeast_88K5
Banned
Holy ballz.....
I just looked up the number on the HEI Distributor.... Its got 30* of advance.
I had a number wrong, when I originally searched it.
Stupid "1", is actually a "7".
30* mechanical... Thats gotta be for a TBI, right?
New dizzy? Or, re-curve kit? (Or, whatever you call it?)
Or should I be at 4*-6* initial?
Fwiw, its a Delco GM HEI Dizzy.
Edit: just read your posts Zim, and Paul...
I just looked up the number on the HEI Distributor.... Its got 30* of advance.
I had a number wrong, when I originally searched it.
Stupid "1", is actually a "7".
30* mechanical... Thats gotta be for a TBI, right?
New dizzy? Or, re-curve kit? (Or, whatever you call it?)
Or should I be at 4*-6* initial?
Fwiw, its a Delco GM HEI Dizzy.
Edit: just read your posts Zim, and Paul...
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TheBeast_88K5
Banned
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TheBeast_88K5
Banned
TheBeast_88K5
Banned
So... Where should I REALLY be?
- 32-35* total, by ~3k RPM, is what I want... I hear ya loud and clear.
- what should I set my initial, and mechanical, timing for?
- should i get the adjustable mechanical kit, and mess with it from there?
- should I be considering my 2,400 stall Converter, in regards to timing?
This is all new to me.
- 32-35* total, by ~3k RPM, is what I want... I hear ya loud and clear.
- what should I set my initial, and mechanical, timing for?
- should i get the adjustable mechanical kit, and mess with it from there?
- should I be considering my 2,400 stall Converter, in regards to timing?
This is all new to me.
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TheBeast_88K5
Banned
Its brand new.... But, I hear they're bad out of the box, often.
What shape is this dist in? used, new, rebuilt???
keep posting with what you got!
So... Where should I REALLY be?
- 32-35* total, by ~3k RPM, is what I want... I hear ya loud and clear.
- what should I set my initial, and mechanical, timing for? Depending on how you answer the first question above....if its in decent shape run it and see where your TOTAL advance is and what rpm it is there....If you have 32-36 by 3000-3500 leave it there and see where the timing is at, at idle...if its in the 10-20* range and sounds good at idle, responds good to throttle, and doesn't detonate (spark knock) try it there for a few miles. If you have other dist issues, it may be wise to pull it out and do a rebuild on it....its really pretty easy to do, if you go that route, we'll dive into it further then.
- should i get the adjustable mechanical kit, and mess with it from there? Only if you got dist issues or the total timing and curve isn't desireable as has been mentioned.
- should I be considering my 2,400 stall Converter, in regards to timing? No, I really don't think you'll notice that convertor as much as you think you will.
This is all new to me.
keep posting with what you got!
Assuming your dizzy is normal, i.e. like stock, then yep. Your local speed shop should have a set as they are very common.
I did this for both my trucks, well worth it. Easier with a timing light that you can dial back -- there's a name for this that escapes me.
-- A
what Dave said... make sure your total is 32 to 35.. this is where having an adjustable timing light is pretty much required.. or a timing tape at least.. set the gun to 32, bring the motor up to 3 g+ and bring the timing mark to zero...
