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My FAST EFI / fuel injection mod thread

K85 Octane

K85 Octane

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Before any of you get all excited to read this, I haven't done much of anything yet. I wanted to start this thread so everyone could get involved in this and learn things as I do. Folkenheath has helped me with back and forth PMs, his build thread is also something you should visit if you're thinking of doing this to your own truck. I figured any further conversation between him and I should be in the open, so it can help others. I hope to keep this all informative and clutter free.

I am looking to order the FAST EZ EFI 30227 kit, but without the fuel pump. I'm not using their supplied pump and asking to exclude it from the kit saves me a little money. I'm still looking to use their fuel line and pressure regulator. I have already purchased a TBI tank with TBI sending unit. The sending unit I bought doesn't come with the fuel pump either, saving me a little money also. I purchased the Walbro 255 pump and have already installed it in the sending unit, easy btw. Now my tank and sending unit are done.

I have some questions to start this off. I will try to get pictures of everything as I go.

* The fittings that come on the sending unit have a flare and O ring. I would consider these good enough for my conversion, since this is a TBI sending unit designed for fuel injection pressures. Does anyone disagree and why?

* My truck is an '85 blazer. It has a vent and return line. The vent is easy but the return line my next concern. Can I just run regular hose like it is now?

* The fuel line on the frame is perfect, being in CA. I don't see needing to replace them, I didn't have any leaks and I don't expect to have any even with higher pressures. The hoses on the passenger side frame rail is another concern. The return side is address in the last question. The pressure side is something I'll need to modify. Should I just cut the ends off, install fittings, flare the lines, and get a short EFI hose made for the 6-8"?

* Should I make the same kind of hose and flare ends for where the sending unit and fuel lines meet? Can I get away with running hose for the return @ the tank?

* The fuel lines on the frame @ the engine are also set up for hoses.
Folkenheath: How does the FAST EFI set up address this area? I'm guessing I'll need to flare these ends also.

That's it for now. Sorry to say...my engine is not even in the truck currently. I just took it out for some changes. I'm still addressing my suspension. The truck isn't in a position to get at the tank stuff, so this thread may take a while, but figured it was still worth starting now.

Folkenheath
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281710&page=15

FAST kit
http://atlanticspeed.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=6176&idcategory=172

Walbro 255
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/VPN-GCA758-2

Sending unit
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Sender;-Includes-Fuel-Sender,-Float-and-Strainer-%28Fuel-Pump-Not-Included%29-Spectra-Premium_18320636-P_2159_R|GRPFUE2AMS_____

TBI tank
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Fuel-Tank-Spectra-Premium_5322200-P_1296_R|GRPFUE2AMS_____
 
Keep in mind that the FAST system IS NOT smog legal in California (no carb EO number). :deal:

The system also DOES NOT control spark.
 
The smog problem is something I'll deal with, without going into it.

And I kinda like the idea of controlling spark myself, keeps them separate, plus I'm already sporting an MSD Pro Billet HEI, which is completely adjustable.
 
K85 Octane said:
* The fittings that come on the sending unit have a flare and O ring. I would consider these good enough for my conversion, since this is a TBI sending unit designed for fuel injection pressures. Does anyone disagree and why?
Click to expand...

I think that will be fine, they make conversion fittings to convert that to AN without any mods too, but it doesn't sound like you need to go that route? Keep in mind my truck was not originally TBI or a blazer, so none of my fittings were factory o-rings, so I don't know what you are starting with there.

K85 Octane said:
* My truck is an '85 blazer. It has a vent and return line. The vent is easy but the return line my next concern. Can I just run regular hose like it is now?
Click to expand...

The return line will not be high pressure since it's open ended, so should be OK with hose and clamps on part of the return line. I would still want some solid line in there most of the way though, just for reliability, long lengths of rubber hose are more likely to crack, leak, or cause problems down the road.

K85 Octane said:
* The fuel line on the frame is perfect, being in CA. I don't see needing to replace them, I didn't have any leaks and I don't expect to have any even with higher pressures. The hoses on the passenger side frame rail is another concern. The return side is address in the last question. The pressure side is something I'll need to modify. Should I just cut the ends off, install fittings, flare the lines, and get a short EFI hose made for the 6-8"?
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the end that enters the fuel rails? Does that end have an o-ring fitting too? If so I would get one of Russel's adaptor fittings so you don't have to cut anything, but if you do have to cut it anyway for routing then I would double flare it and get IF to AN adaptor fitting.

K85 Octane said:
* Should I make the same kind of hose and flare ends for where the sending unit and fuel lines meet? Can I get away with running hose for the return @ the tank?
Click to expand...

If the factory lines aren't high pressure all the way up to the engine area, I would just ditch them, and use a conversion fitting to convert the o-ring lines out of the sending unit to AN, and run AN line up to the engine. Trucks don't have any high pressure line, that's why I flared my sending unit, but for your setup you don't need to.

K85 Octane said:
* The fuel lines on the frame @ the engine are also set up for hoses.
Folkenheath: How does the FAST EFI set up address this area? I'm guessing I'll need to flare these ends also.
Click to expand...

The FAST kit came with about 20 - 25 ft of AN pushlock hose, and several fittings. I used this hose and fittings to fo from the sending unit to my hard lines on the frame. Then I used more to go from the hard line to the fuel rails, out the fuel rails into the regulator, then from the regulator to the hard return line. Then more AN pushlock hose from the return hardline back into the sending unit return line.

If I were you I would install an MSD 6A box, it will give you multiple sparks down low and a long, hotter spark up high. No need to get the 6AL because the EFI has a built in rev limiter. I already had a 6AL in my truck anyway, so I just used it and pulled out the rev limit chip. Also, the 6A box will give you a clean tach signal for the EFI. Although it is possible to use their tach adapter circuit to supply a clean signal to the EFI, it is included. Another option is to get a laptop programmable ignition like a Digital 7, which will allow you to fully program the ignition curve along with your A/F ratio (with the EFI) but with a properly tuned distributor I don't think you'll notice the difference with the proammable timing since timing can easily be adjusted/curved anyway.
 
I hate reading something cool, but having to go to work before I can reply properly and get pictures up. Dammit. Hopefully it's not a long day.
 
Here is what I'm starting with as far as fuel lines go. This is a carbed blazer, with supply, return, and vent lines running up the frame rail.

Here is the TBI sending unit I'm using. What do you guys think about running the connections "as is"? It will see upwards of 60spi. I have no tools for flaring or experience of doing so. I'm nervous about dealing with this aspect of the mod. The return and supply hardlines on the frame rail should be fitted with threaded fittings. The other end of these hoses should have fittings to accept those on the sending unit.

sending_units-SU425.jpg





Here are my lines on the frame rail. I'm thinking about flaring the supply line for a new type filter with thread in fittings. The return I'm going to cut down and clean up so it's straight, flare the end a little and run a hose and clamps.

Picture065.jpg





The end of the supply line will be cut, flared, and fitted with threaded connectors. (I'm so green to this stuff I don't know what to call them :doah:) I'm thinking of running the FAST EFI supplied hose down to the supply line, fitted with the same threaded fittings. The same supplied hose will run from the pressure gauge to the return hard line on the frame. I think I will use a barbed fitting on the line, run about 3" of hose, and clamp it to the OEM hardline. I think this should be plenty good for a return line.

Picture063.jpg



Any and all ideas are welcome. I have no idea what I'm doing. :doah: :waytogo:
 
I think anything with those o-rings threaded fittings is fine, that sending unit should be fine as is, I wouldn't change it at all. I would just buy those russel fittings that convert that o-ring fitting to AN male. The hard lines are fine too, but I wouldn't trust a hose barb clamp on the supply side. If you don't want to flare, they do make "comression" fittings that convert to AN that use a compression sleeve and seal to a hard line. Just make sure when you cut the hare line off you use something to clean the outside of the line since the compression sleave will seal against the outside in that case.

On the return side a hose clamp and rubber fuel injection line is fine for that piece, and after the regulator to the frame rail too.

Another option is, many of the parts stores will let you "rent" the double flaring tools for free. Just pay for it and they give you all your money back when you return the rental tool.
 
thanks folkenheath

do you have any good links for a "how to" of sorts when it comes time to flare the ends?

Oh, and the barb line was simply for the return side of the regulator going back to the frame rail hardline.
 
No links, it will come with instructions, a few tips since double flares are easy to mess up (no be deal just cut the end off and do it again)...

1 - Make sure you use a pipe cutter to cut it off, and if the end is not perfectly square, file it square, it is pretty important.

2 - when clamping the tube be sure to use the flare adaptor as a guide for length of how much tube sticks out of the clamp, and be critical about it, if anything err on the long side, it will be easier to buckle the tubing.

3 - be sure everything is centered and straight before you start the 1st flare step, the 1st part is the hard part, once you get that done, the 2nd step is easy. Although tighten it down nice nad tight on the 2nd step, it will make for easier assembly and less chance of a leak.

4 - don't forget the flare nut! :waytogo: Every so often I will make a double flare and immediately realize I forgot to put the flare nut on the tube, so I have to cut it off and do it again (unless I haven't flared the other end yet).


On a side note, if I were to do it again, i would seriously consider just ditching the factory return line, and using the factory supply line as the return line. Then use the supplied AN line in the kit and run it from the filter (just outside the tank mounted on the frame) all the way up to the fuel rails. Less connections and less hassling, along with less cost, because you already have the hose, and the fittings add up.

So conversion fitting from the sending unit, into 6AN line. Then a 6AN line to the filter. Out of the filter another AN line all the way up to the fuel rails. Then out of the fuel rails into the regulator, from the regulator back to the factory supply line (could just clamp the AN hose to the supply line at this point). Then at the rear, hook the return line hose from the sending unit, to the factory supply line that now comes from the regulator. That's what I would do if I were you. If you want you can double flare the supply line but it wouldn't be necssary. This also gives you 3/8" all the way from the pump back to the sending unit return barb.
 
OOO I like the idea of just using the supplied flex line for the entire supply side. That would make things much easier. Then the only actual flaring I would need to do might be a slight nipple flare on the return hardlines, just so the hoses/hose clamps hold better.

heavy duty ziptie along the original hardline to hold the new flex line. Didn't know there would be so much supplied fuel line in the kit. I wonder if I could order more flexline from FAST and have it complete from tank to engine. Hmmm
 
My kit came with 20 or 25 ft I think, i used two sections of 42" of hardline along the framerails, and I had about 12 feet of hose left over, which I used for tranny cooler lines on my regal. To be honest, I think if you really wanted you could use it all the way both ways and not buy anymore. But if you want to buy more, the Fragola part number was right on it. It was Fragola black braided pushlock hose and fittings that came with it. But I have a truck, with a blazer tank it would be a little longer. Just run the main lines first then, because if you are a 1 ft short for the rails to regulator hose thats a lot cheaper than a full length hose if you already cut it off. One of the reasons I uses lines outside teh frame rail, was now I don't have to pull the bed to pull the tank becuase I can disconnect everything inside the frame, then lower the tank with short sections of hose still connected.
 
So the trigger has been pulled and Santa dropped off something early this Christmas.

Picture118.jpg






I like the FAST badge, but would NEVER advertise something like that on my truck. I think it's going on my garage cabinet, keeping all the other cool stickers company.

Picture119.jpg
 
So the first thing I notice is the packaging. Everything is very nice, tight, and organized. The next is the quality in everything. The wiring harnesses and anodized aluminum pieces in the kit are real nice. If there is anything anyone wants close ups of, let me know.

I have a couple questions. The kit comes with a "filter" of sorts for the RPM pickup. I have an MSD Pro Billet HEI. I wouldn't need the "filter" with a CDI box, but I don't think it's necessary. The Pro Billet has two TACH outputs. I'm using the main one for my gauge. Not sure if I can use the other one. Who is the MSD guy? Philly87 or something like that no? I'll post the findings for this thread.


Second, I read the O2 sensor needs to be 20" or farther away from the heads. The best place is just upstream of the CAT, and after the collector. I guess I'll be plugging my header's O2 bung and welding a new one into my Y pipe. LUCKILY, the engine is out and the Y pipe is sitting in the garage. I'll take it to my welder dude and get 'er done.
 
K85 Octane, I have the FAST EZ EFI on my 90 blazer.

I have the same fuel pump your running. It will put out 65psi engine off, power on. I did cut my steel fuel supply line right at the back of the engine, after they bent over into the horizontal, then I flared it and put on a brass threaded fitting to convert to the AN fittings that came in the kit. It Leaked badly !!!!!!
I ended up taking the high pressure hose in the kit down to my NAPA dealer and having them use a high pressure hydraulic fitting on a "hose to threaded" fitting that I could screw directly into my fuel filter. The same fittings that you are showing coming off your sending unit. I'm not an expert on these fittings, but you are going to have to use fittings that you can screw together, like stock TBI or equivalent to what the later model FI systems that were designed for 60 psi use ! Don't even think about clamps or anything that was designed for carbs that ran 4psi.

I am running my tach off my MSD box, and it works well.

I ran a stand alone MSD distributor and I have had a GREAT DEAL OF PROBLEMS WITH THE MSD CRAP !!!!!!!!!!
The main problem is that that my mechanical advance if giving me 2x what it should ! Instead of 21 degrees of advance I am getting 34 degrees. I sent the MSD back to my dealer who found the problem and sent it back to MSD and they fixed it (or so they said) and sent it back. Fortunately he re-checked it and it is still doing the same, so now it it back to MSD for more repairs. Don't buy MSD !!! IMO buy pertronix or some other brand !

My motor has @ 15 inches of vacuum and the efi seems to deal with it fine. I don't have a lot of running time, as I first had an intake manifold leak, then after fixing that, the timing issue was found and I have been dealing with that now for 3 months(you know how those part time projects go). So I hope to have it running by the one year anniversary of starting the project ?? Depending upon MSD ?

Good luck and PM me if I can be of any assistance.

DSCN1541 (640x480).jpg

IMG00113-20110428-1518.jpg
 
Thanks Wyomingboy. Nice advice. What is the spacer for? Also, what box are you running?

Thanks
 
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