My TBI computer chip programing thread/adventure.

[y5mgisi]

Ok so i just burnt my "second try" chip. What i did for this one was took the stock amur bin, reomved 20% from the 400-1200rpm 30-70kpa and forced open loop. This way, i can see how it behaves with/without the o2 sensor chiming in. Also added 10 gallons of fresh fuel and a bottle of the yellow heat. I should have time to run it tomorrow.

 

[eagle mark]

I'm telling you, change your fuel filter... been there done that 3 times on old stale gas. Once you get enough freash stuff flowing the goo from ethanol it will plug it...

But I see your having fun and experimanting! Fast too! You have come a long way in a few weeks!

 

[y5mgisi]

Funny you should mention that, i was just thinking as i was pouring the gas in its probably due for a fuel filter change.

 

[y5mgisi]

Mark, Your name is mark isnt it? Didnt you send me a bin a while ago? Was that for a stock truck? Or was anything modified with it? Or was it the super 42 file you sent?

 

[eagle mark]

I sent a hypertech ADSU stage one stock file to start. Comapred to ADSU it's almost identical.

Don't use the super 7747 ADX and I don't know if I fixed the super XDF. there's something wrong with them. Use the hiway $42.xdf and em2 adx... if you don't have them email me. I know the ones on my laptop run because they were tested again today after I worked on them. Couple more glitches in dash boards and the Supers will be done.... again.... Final answer!

 

[y5mgisi]

todays loggs and a screen shot

 

[y5mgisi]

Couple lame videos from today too.

 

[eagle mark]

I can't get your logs open in Open Office Excel program, when I do the numbers are in wriong colums... You really need to get TP recording data with the new ADX I sent you.

I have always had problems with using WinALDL and TP. It would mess up my com ports and TP would not work. Turn computor off. Plug in cable, start computor, open TP, Tools, Preferences, Dat aquisition and use plug in. Check cable? Turn off TunerPro, restart data should be there...

If you must use WinALDL only check sensor data! Uncheck the other three. Then record data. It will be much easier to look through.

 

[y5mgisi]

As far as the log order, 252 is the last one of the day where i turned the o2 sensor back on, and 545 is first one of the day. the others, i couldnt tell ya. I started a new log with each new bin adjustment.

 

[y5mgisi]

Thats strange cause im here at work and was just looking threw them and they come up fine on excel here? I like to also check flag data too so that i know when closed loop and blm enable come on. The others i have learned to not check. I want so badly for TP to work! I just cant seem to get it to! Arg!

 

[dave w]

I looked at both videos, but only looked at one log,. It looks like the idle Kpa is about 42 ~ 43 Kpa and the idle RPM is about 850 RPM. I noticed the idle BLM's (between 120 ~ 108) are rich when the ECM is in closed loop. I think I would only adjust just the one idle VE cell, 40 Kpa / 800 RPM from 6.71 (that's what is posted in post #86) down to 5.81 and data log again and see if that helps the idle BLM's?

Another option I would consider is combine the VE adder table into the main VE table, then ZERO the VE adder table. Post a screen shot of both main and VE adder table and I post the combined VE tables back.

For the time being, I'd like to focus on getting good BLM's at closed loop idle.

dave w

 

[y5mgisi]

Its just crazy to me that i have already taken away tons of fuel and it needs tons more removed still! Madness i say! This is the stock amur bin that im working off of.

And this is the changes from today. This screen shot represents the last log that i did today, and the second video.

 

[y5mgisi]

My guess is that because im starting to approch zero in those few cells that im going to have to start adjusting the BPW down and the upper cells up to compensate. As it is my lower cells are going to be near zero and my upper near 100.

 

[eagle mark]

I just installed an old office 97 that works on Windows 7... so there is a miracle! excel works fine on your log. Open Office does not open it correctly.

Looked at you MAP at say 43.2 for idle and converted to Inches of Mercury (Vacuum Reading) and your at 12.8!

For your cam specs should be at 15-16... call cam company and find out. Stock car 19 to 21 depending on elevation. I was rasied in USA when Metric was Europeon, I'm old...

Block vaccum brake booster. Check for vacuum leaks, check for bad PCV valve.

I would leave BPW alone for now. You can loose more VE in the VE adder table for the low cells.

What is the timing on distributor set for? What is initail spark set for? These should match.

 

[y5mgisi]

Looked at you MAP at say 43.2 for idle and converted to Inches of Mercury (Vacuum Reading) and your at 12.8!

Now dont take this the wrong way but thats not quite accurate. Me and Russel had a tough time wrapping our minds around this! But basically, you cant do a map kpa to inhg conversion and have it end up right! Its essentially opposite! I fought myself on it for quite some time! An easy way to see the "wrongness" is to go here,

http://convert-to.com/195/pressure-units.html

Select kpa to inhg. type in 30kpa. Great idle vacuum right? probably around 22inhg? NOPE! its about 9inhg! Now type in 70kpa, full on huge cam maybe 10ingh tops! NOPE! its about 20.5inhg! Like i said, it warped my mind for quite some time. Basically, the further the map sensor is form 100kpa(atmospheric pressure), the more vacuum the engine is producing. In a few of my videos i have a vacuum gauge hooked up and it shows the actual ingh which if i remember right was around 16? About your suggestion to run it with vacuum lines capped. Been there done that! I have done every combo under the sun of having EVERY vaccum line plugged, cap one off at a time, swap pcv valves, you name it i have done it as far as capping off vacuum lines with no change in vacuum readings.

About the timing, it is set physically with the tss wire disconected at about 6*. I havent changed anything in the program to reflect that. Another word towards timing, i have adjusted it every possible way you can imagine in what feels like 1* increments! Started at 0*. Bumped it up a couple. Couple more. Couple more. Couple more. Couple more. Until i had gotten it so high that it started running way bad. with no improvement in vacuum readings or running condition. I have also done just the opposite to the retarded side just for fun. Retard 2*. Couple more. Couple more. couple more. Until it was about ready to die. With no improvement in vacuum readings or running condition. I have been fighting the idle on this thing for damn near 5 years. You name it, i have done it or replaced it. Short of dicking around with the cam and up until now, the computer. Even with that being the case im always open to any possible suggestion anyone can think of just cause "who knows?".

 

[y5mgisi]

If you watch this video around the 30second mark i show a vacuum gauge reading. Funny thing about this video is that its taken nearly the moment the temp sensor goes poopy. So the video is actually shot of the truck in "limp mode" which surprisingly, it runs pretty well in!

 

[y5mgisi]

About the map reading thing. This pic shows the way my original thought process was about it,

But when you think about the fact that a vacuum gauge will read 0inhg and 0 kpa if your just holding it in your hand, but that the map sensor will read 100ish kpa with the key on, thats when you realize that this image is actually incorrect.

 

[eagle mark]

Now dont take this the wrong way but thats not quite accurate. Me and Russel had a tough time wrapping our minds around this! But basically, you cant do a map kpa to inhg conversion and have it end up right! Its essentially opposite! I fought myself on it for quite some time! An easy way to see the "wrongness" is to go here,

http://convert-to.com/195/pressure-units.html

Select kpa to inhg. type in 30kpa. Great idle vacuum right? probably around 22inhg? NOPE! its about 9inhg! Now type in 70kpa, full on huge cam maybe 10ingh tops! NOPE! its about 20.5inhg! Like i said, it warped my mind for quite some time. Basically, the further the map sensor is form 100kpa(atmospheric pressure), the more vacuum the engine is producing. In a few of my videos i have a vacuum gauge hooked up and it shows the actual ingh which if i remember right was around 16? About your suggestion to run it with vacuum lines capped. Been there done that! I have done every combo under the sun of having EVERY vaccum line plugged, cap one off at a time, swap pcv valves, you name it i have done it as far as capping off vacuum lines with no change in vacuum readings.

About the timing, it is set physically with the tss wire disconected at about 6*. I havent changed anything in the program to reflect that. Another word towards timing, i have adjusted it every possible way you can imagine in what feels like 1* increments! Started at 0*. Bumped it up a couple. Couple more. Couple more. Couple more. Couple more. Until i had gotten it so high that it started running way bad. with no improvement in vacuum readings or running condition. I have also done just the opposite to the retarded side just for fun. Retard 2*. Couple more. Couple more. couple more. Until it was about ready to die. With no improvement in vacuum readings or running condition. I have been fighting the idle on this thing for damn near 5 years. You name it, i have done it or replaced it. Short of dicking around with the cam and up until now, the computer. Even with that being the case im always open to any possible suggestion anyone can think of just cause "who knows?".

Your right! this conversion calculater is wrong as well.'
http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/ccpress.htm

OK so what is your vacuum in inches at idle. I will catch on to metric someday but all my software is set up with vacuum in inches of mercury, so is my gage.

Probably go back to stock timing if you had no luck there. Initial timing setting should be set to distributor. This won't help idle but will limit Max Advance for later!

 

[y5mgisi]

Mine seems to be averaging 16inhg.

 

[eagle mark]

About the map reading thing. This pic shows the way my original thought process was about it,

But when you think about the fact that a vacuum gauge will read 0inhg and 0 kpa if your just holding it in your hand, but that the map sensor will read 100ish kpa with the key on, thats when you realize that this image is actually incorrect.

OK your right that chart is wrong... nothing I can do to make either chart totally correct. But if you took the top chart for vacuum, turned around both top lines, it would be close.

I just looked at the last log I did when tuning idle on a BB Mopar. Vacuum was 15 on a gage in dash. Log shows kpa at 30 and MAP voltage at 1.0. Which even if you turned the top two lines around would still need to be shifted two colums for HG vacuum to line up there, then others would be off!

May have time to do math this winter! Would help if I had to burn a chip each time but I run an emulater so I make changes and go back in 3 seconds and see real time info... so a lot of what you are doing I don't.

I do math on injector flow needed for HP rated and pressure needed, make sure injectors correct size and are cleaned and flow matched, this engine needed a TPI pump and ran 17 PSI. Now I have enough gas at WOT high RPM and won't lean out and burn up an engine! Then I start car and emulate to run at idle, 30 minutes tops because it has to be full operating tempreture before your idle settings are correct. On this engine it has a huge oil pan and filters so like 12 quarts and an oil tempreture gage. My idle settings changed when I had them set at 184 degrees and oil was less than 100 degrees to when oil reached 180 degrees as well!!! I never took that into consideration but this was the first huge oiling system car I worked on and it had a oil temp gage so that was incredible learning expreiance! Then next time you start warm up will be better. Then mid range, then WOT, then I usually play with timing but have a couple timing tables to start. Make sure theres no ping or just a little throughout RPM. Then back out 2 degrees except idle, then test for ping, adjust. Save file, do some smoothing but not around my idle... burn final chip. test drive. Break driveshaft, poof I was done! Total tuning time 3 hours. Just tuning! I had loads more time in finding low fuel presure, changing pump, adding adjustable regulator, finding 2 differant injectors on a rebuilt BB TBI unit, clogged fuel filter, loose batterey cables and stale gas once again two vacuum leaks and a few other loose wires etc.... So diagnostics and repairs were another 12 hours...

I'd still take out 15 % of second VE table for idle to start on yours. then check idle BLM if they are getting close take out more...

Or I think Dave said earlier combine the two and only work of main. But I never done that... I have always found them to work well together except for the idle numbers in second VE...