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Need help, death wobble, can't drive much longer.....

Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

I dont know? I give up! Thank god the DW doesnt happen at highway speeds, Im way to old to be poop`n my pants!!!

Anybody want to do a mass buy on steering stablizers?

RGF
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

Well I have noticed that if I hit the brakes just as it starts to wobble it kinda stops it but after it gets going theres no stopping the DW.Also Ive noticed that if I am in a turn that it wont wobble either so Im starting to lean towards the long Unsupported link(tie rod)...............................
You know youve got a bad ass ride if youve got the death wobble though.And other than the fact that people think my truck is junk by just sitting there they need to ride with me and experience the Death wobble and make an informed opinion!!!!
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

This is interesting...

I got the DW after tightened up my U-bolts. My DW happens only 35-25 MPH. I blew out a tire in the snow and landed on my steel rim. I think one of my rims is cracked, hence the DW. I also found my spring perches were loose. Tightening these up has reduced the DW a bit. This is on my '73 Blazer with 10 bolt front and 14b SF rear. It does have a sway-bar. I have a five year old Rancho 5000 shock for the steering stabilizer. Maybe, I will replace this first.

My 72 Truck with D60 and 14FF rear and 35 MTs does not get a DW. This does NOT have a sway bar. - FYI

My
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

WHAT ARE ALL U GUYS WITH DW RUNNING FOR SHOCKS AND HOW MANY ?? i have about a 6 inch lift on the front and none 0 lift in the rear < i know it looks funny> 10blt frt and 12 blt rear 35mt/r s ,crossover ,regular shocks and a worn out stabilizer . the closest ive come to dw that i know of was going about 80 -90 down a really whoopy section of highway , when i came over the crest and started "landing"
it would sway a bit side to side . maybe thats bumpsteerr .....anyways nobody is answering my posts and im trying to give some creative input ...ah whatever keep your d60s .
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

Well I am running 33's on a stock lift with dual quads up front(4 shocks) with 1 rancho stablizer on corporate 10 bolts.All of my front end parts are new and I have new tires and rims with a fresh alignment .New rotors and calipers with new pads new ball joints etc. I just started noticing DW a few weeks ago and since then it seems to be getting worse I have checked everything up front and cant find anything loose. My truck never did this in the 6 years that I've had it and I know it is not the tires because I bought the same pirelli scorpions that I had before. I am at my wits end with this and I dont know what to do .I've tried everything thats been posted with no luck.I drive my truck everyday to and from work (about 50 miles) And need to get this damn DW fixed .Hopefully between us all we can find a sure fix for this and keep our trucks roadworthy and safe. I drive with my kids and sometimes it scares the hell out of em .And I will never sell my k-5 so I am on a mission to find out what causes this.................................
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

are everybody spring bushing good and the bolts tight ?
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

I run a Rock Rod, the D60 was COMPLETELY gone through and rebuilt, have 'stock' steering, and I had DW bad at low speed when I put everything all together. This included new springs, greasable bushings/bolts, ORD extended shackles, etc. and NO stabilizer to start with...........wanted to see if it was necessary, because, as noted above, I felt stabilizers usually covered up problems. Well, DW was bad, I posted about it back then (last May) and Steve Fox mentioned that he had it too when he put in his D60, which was cured by ONE stabilizer. Put one on, end of problem.

It isn't the tie rod. I had all new ends, in addition to everything else new in the front end, shocks included.

This is a bizarre and elusive thing. DW has NEVER come back since I put on the single stabilizer.
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

what does new ends have to do with harmonics developing in the tierod?
bolting a damper on and having the DW cured is the most damning evidense pointing to the tierod
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

Didn't say jack about harmonics.

Just pointing out yet another varied point about having all new stuff up front (including tires, wheels, shocks) and DW with no stabilizer. Heck, I don't know what it is caused by, but I do know what cured mine 100%.
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

This is a harmonics problem guys.

It's not a single part or parts that need to be replaced .

To cure the problem that has a hermonic frequence. (like wheel balances, brake noise, drive train vibrations, ect) The frequences needs to be tuned out, so we don't feel it. (keep in mind, it won't ever go away, but we can convince it to change frequences, so we don't "hear" it.)

That can be anything from:

Changeing the alignnment, possibly setting in a touch more toe in. (too stress the tie-rod a bit more). Maybe even a bit more Caster, to channge the attaitude of the tire.

Change the steering dampner, maybe to a stiffer or even softer model.

Even the suspension bushings. It could be possible thet if one of the bushings was "pre-loaded" (tightend in the unloaded position), it could change the frequency of the vibrations.

On the same note, Maybe even loosen ALL the suspension bolts and nuts, jounce the vehical and retorque. (why not it's free!)

The point is, too cure the problem. Something needs to be changed too change the hermonic frequencys of the entire system.

I might add. A long (tie) rod is a perfect place for vibrations to originate from.

Thats my take on it. I could be wrong, but as this thread has developed. It sounds more and more like a "tune it out" kinda thing, not a "parts problem".
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

Twizted,

I have read the entire thread from a purely "bystander" perspective.....no personal experience with DW, but I think your ideas about a harmonic problem might be correct.

Every mechanical part has a "natural resonant frequency". If you can create enough energy at the specified frequency.....the part will begin to vibrate (much like a "tuning fork"). It is conceivable that some of the parts in the front suspension (tie rods, steering arms, springs) could have resonances very close to each other....which cause them to simultaneously vibrate..... the "additive" effect of multiple components vibrating at one time would certainly be "noticeable"!!!!

Who knows.....maybe it's a tire's particular treadpattern at a specific MPH that creates the initial vibration which exites all these "natural resonances" and causes all this chaos.....?

Each person who has responded has slightly different parts (tires, dampers, component wear, etc) so it seems more elusive to point to a particular component that is responsible.

I'm not an expert in Mechanical Design, but I know that if you add "mass" to an object, you will change it's "natural resonance" to a lower frequency. The lower frequencies are harder to exite resonances in.....so maybe that's an idea that could be tested? What about a SOLID tie rod? I know the RockStomper one is VERY thick.....what about making it even MORE solid? I'm not sure how you might add "mass" to the other front end components.....

It seems that the "stabilizers" in some cases are able to "cancel out" the harmonics in the other components, and solve the DW issue......with other setups, perhaps the damping rate is just slightly off.....and it can't have the proper effect?

Are there any mechanical engineers here that could suggest a "fininte element analysis" (I believe that's the term?) for the steering components to figure out what all these resonances are????? For some reason, I recall "Triaged" has a pretty extensive mechanical engineering background.....perhaps we've got others here too.....?
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

I think you all are correct in using the term Harmonics Problem. It is true, but the perplexing problem is this:

I never had Death Wobble before installing my crossover steering. I am using the same Tie Rod (only flipped over for the older style knuckles). Alignment is perfect. If it is a tie rod problem, then why would I start having problems after installing crossover? Did I change the harmonics of the tie rod just by installing a different steering system? My tie rod is brand new and is the solid steel type (not sure how strong it is). Also, a buddy has the Rockstomper tie rod. This unit is much stronger than the factory rod. I figured the Rock Rod would change this theroy. No Change. Im not saying anybody's theories are incorrect - In fact, I think all the input has been very informative and well said. I do agree its a problem with Harmonics. But I wish we could narrow down how the violent shaking gets started.

One more perplexing thing. I have one other friend who installed Crossover Steering on a rig with very similar parts to mine. In fact, we used the same steering arm manufacturer (MO Offroad Outfitters), same rockstomper draglink, same ball-joints, same pitman arm. The only thing he has different are tires (36" SSR's) and he has an ORD Steering Box Brace. He recently broke a stabilizer at a run and drove home 4 hours without one. He did not experience DW at all. I think it is a combination of things that cause it.

I agree with BlazinOR, I fixed the problem by installing a stabilizer.

Could it be the problem lies in the common Ball Joint? The way a ball joint is mounted - could the tapered shaft be flexing in the knuckle? Would Heim Joints solve this? I have a few friends with Heims installed and they do not have death wobble.

One thing is for sure, this is a very interesting subject. Again - I think we have had some very good points issued.
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

Twiztid is right. This is an oscillation based on the overall steering system. Certain steering components may contribute more or less to it, but changing anything up front could have an effect on the magnitude or frequency.

I wouldn't view the stabilizer as a band aid. Not only does it dampen the DW, it provides a certain level of protection from steering wheel kickbacks. Do you really think that you can put a 40" tire on a vehicle that was designed for 29" without it having some side effects?

The stabilizer works to dampen out vibrations. It essentially is a low pass filter for the mechanical system. The faster you try to move it, the more work it requires. So you can get the steering to move side to side in the normal fashion, but a high frequency vibration or wobble is damped. There is enough slop in the drag link, ball joints, tie rod ends, steering gear, etc., that the DW happens without even moving the steering wheel. It is for this reason that the damping has to be put as closely and rigidly to the knuckle steering as possible. As you add more or stiffer stabilizers, the system becomes more and more overdamped, so high frequency stuff is reduced more and more, but the overall response also gets slower. However, you would need a pile of stabilizers before you would start to notice this, because the force to turn the tires is a lot more than the force needed to move the stabilizer. How fast will a huge tire on a 15" rim respond to steering input anyway? These aren't Ferarris.

It's stabilizer or redesign the steering system or put your stock tires back on.
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

This morning I went to autozone and bought a new stablizer (factory replacement) and a new set of wheel bearings and races I also bought a new power steering pump and new belt I was done installing them around 11 o clock Then I drove my truck up the same hill that before would send my front end to shake .It did not have any DW at all .Then I drove it on the highway and my truck feels new again. No shimmys or wander or wobble .This has me baffled because the parts I replaced were still good and functional.But I am sure that somehow the ps pump contributed to the DW I was experiencing.I am not sure whether the stabilizer or bearings were the main culprits but the most difference I feel is in the steering.Could it be that when the ps pumps wear out that they give a dead spot in the box that sends a chain reaction through the entire front? Overall I spent about $180 on the new parts which is'nt bad If it cured the DW .Although it is to early to tell if I completely eliminated the DW but hopefully this combo of new parts is a starting point for all of you having this problem .I will keep yous posted on how it turns out in the next few weeks But already I can tell a difference in my truck and hopefully it wont start again .......Hope this helps .good luck...............
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

There is no way for the PS pump to know what position your wheels are in. The steering gear can get a dead spot in it, but the pump is only effected by load, not position.
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

the new stabilizer is what fixed it, try taking it off and do the same run
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

i think that if you put more toe in on it that would make it worse , it would try to "compress the tierod instead of "stretch " it . someone maybe try toe out
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

There are far too meny different combinations that have the D/W, and the fact that this "could" be concidered "normal" operation of a solid-axle suspension, to nail it down to just one part and repair

I think if we tried to pin down a some kind of "repair procedure". It might be more productive. Something like this:

1- Preliminary checks.
Check the condition of all the suspension and steering components. Tie-rod ends, ball-joints, springs, shocks, steering dampner, and the wheel-bearings (make-sure the bearings are preloaded correctly). Repair or replace any parts that are worn or loose.

2- Neutralize the front suspension.
Makeing sure the suspension, and axle are not "pre-loaded". With the weight of the truck on the axle, and at ride-height. Loosen (but do-not remove) the front spring mounting bolt, the shackle bolt (possibly upper and lower) AND the U-bolts that hold the axle inplace. Then jounce the front of the truck acouple of times. Lift the front end, then compress the front end, letting it come to a rest. Retorque the axle U-bolts. Then the front eye, then the shackle. Also check and align the tie-rod ends.

3- Insure the wheel alignment is correct.
Use the following specs as a guide-line. (camber and toe, vary slighly from year to year, caster remains the same *I checked*)

Caster - 8.00 degrees. (thats ALOT of caster boys)
Camber - .25 degrees. Tops of the tires slightly out.
Toe-in - .19 inches.

Caster will help the tires "trac" straight and resists a change in direction.
Toe-in. The rolling resistance of the tires will try to pull the tires to a Toe-out condition, so to counter act the tires need to be slightly toed-in. Toeing out will result in a "darty" feel at the wheel (all RWDs are toe-in, all AWD/FWD are toe-out)

4 - Throw the Wrench at it
Now the front axle should be set to a solid foundation to start diagnosing and fixing the problem if it still exsists. This would include changeing the Steering dampner, tie-rod, swapping tires, changeing air-pressures ect. Simple fixes.

5- Carpet-bomb the front end
If D/W is still a problem, it's time to get creative with it. This would include:

Changeing the alignment specs slightly. Maybe a slight change in Toe, maybe out, maybe in. A slight change in Caster, again, increase or decrease. Who knows, it might help.

Change the Steering dampner. Get a stiffer shock, or even a lighter shock.
Because the dampner only dampens the tie-rod on a horizontal plane, it does nothing to dampen the vertical forces(bending up and down) the tie-rod may be expirencing. So, it might be help-full to relocate the mounting points of the Steering Dampner, trying to angle the shock slightly so it will have some kind of influence over the vertical forces. I think mounting the dampner to the center of the tie-rod would have the most leverage over the entire length of the tie-rod.
The cross-over steering guys might want to add or relocate the steering dampner to the cross-over link, maybe link the shock to the body (like a Ford) or to the axle.
*Keep inmind, with the shock angled it will bind-up at some point (probably on compresion of the shock)* So, carfully check and inspect the steering, lock-to-lock.

Anything that would change the "pitch" of the hermonics, I think focusing on the tire-to-tire tie-rod would have the best results.


I would think the above list should eliminate, or atleast reduse the Wobbles to a livable level.
Would you agree? Anything to add?
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

i ran toe out sometimes with no effect
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

It all depends on how much. Some toe-out might not make a huge difference with larger than stock tires, as the tires will squirm around a bit.

But as a genneral rule, stick with toe-in on a RWD, Jerk.
 
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