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Need help, death wobble, can't drive much longer.....

Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

I know somebody out ther has a cordless camera or something of the sorts so how about they mount it on the bumper drive around and then watch the video to see what exactly is moving and when? I don't know just a thought? Or have somebody drive in front of you to see if the tires are moving together, apart or if the whole axle is shifting back and forth.

Chris
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

man, i thought of this,,,,i have been meaning to pull my OLD sony handycam out and mount it underneath to see what the hell is actually going on down there. i think that may be the only way to fix this.
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

I have no DW at all, with 35's on a 10b with one Pro Comp stearing stab. Maybe the softness of the front springs might have something to do with it, because technically once a vibe started would'nt they let it contine more easily then stiff spirngs? I am curious now, to what could be doing this. I wish I had a D60, with or with out the DW. Lates
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

I've drove my wife's car beside my K5 while my wife drove the K5 until it had the DW. My tires move top to bottom and then side to side in a rotating pattern. It's kind of hard to describe. That's what tipped me off that it might be a ball joint/king pin problem.
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

I was thinking Is all of these things together causing the kingpins to bad earlier? quiker? Is it true that the ram assist adn the crossover steering put more stress on your balljoints and if not carefull you can pop the housing or break other steering parts? So if you put huge tires, crossover, high crossover, and ram assist, and the caster, aren't you essentially killing your kingpins? just some thoughts.

Chris
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

Man, I can't believe I missed this post a while back....glad someone brought it back up.

Anyhow, I may be contradicting everyone's dilemma here. I have the d60 and NO DW.
In the beginning, when I first put it on, I did the crossover, and had the rockrod. I ran with no stabilizer an no Hydro ram (couldn't get the Ram I had to stop leaking so I ran without it while it was being repaired), and never had an issue...ran it that way for about 2 weeks. I had the truck pro aligned (only time when someone else worked on the truck other than me), immediately after the axle swap.
I still don't have DW to this date. It's about exactly a year ago since the swap. I run the hydro assist, rockrods, crossover, 4" TC-HD springs, ORD HD shackles, greasable poly bushings....After reading through most of the post above, it seems, that "maybe" this could be caused by running too soft of a spring up front maybe?? Just a stab in the dark.
Not to say my TC - HD's are stiff, since they do flex like pretty well, but they're not as soft as springs that most are running.

For those who have DW, do yall experience it everytime you're around 20 to 30 mph or so?
Boss
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

Copying over here what I just posted in the ORD forum...

I am currently working on D60 DW myself, so I thought I would try reducing caster (it had a good number of votes). I estimated that I was at about 8-8.5 degrees.

I added 5 degree shims. Didn't help DW, but it definitely took out my severe hood slope during turning... stays pretty level now. Didn't notice much difference in driveability except that it may be a little easier to steer and doesn't lunge back to center going down the road (but still a good return to center).

So far, my best improvement for DW was to tighten the bearings... instead of backing off 3/8 turn from 35 lb-ft, I backed off only 1/8 (after conferring with Scott @ Rock Stomper). Really took it down to an occasional vibration in the steering system... haven't triggered DW since.

My DW is triggered by bumps on the right tire at 35-55 mph. I can say with some measure of confidence that it isn't bearings... all new Timken bearings and races and I did try switching the whole assembly (hub/rotor/bearings) between sides. Don't think it is spindles based on the tight tolerance getting the bearings on.

Also, I saw suspicons of crossover. Had it before, still have it.

Next is a basic that should have been done before... tire balance (even though the tires are unchanged since the 10 bolt was ousted).
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

Well, a very exhausting 6.5 hr drive from my home to Disney, OK proved that my DW ONLY occurs from 0 to 35mph. Thank God I did 70mph most of the time. DW would show up when getting on and off the hwy. The new "save all-sure fix", Trailmaster coilover stabilizer didnt do a Damn thing to help. The next step for me is to finish the hydro assist. After that, it's back to the OEM, front to back steering for me. I can deal with those drawbacks.....
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

Steven Watson posted on another thread that when he towed his rig with the engine not running, he experienced DW. With no hydraulic pressure to his ram, his truck exhibited the same crap that I and alot of others are dealing with. This is just one more spark of hope for the hydraulic assist to at least "hide" the damn DW......
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

Well this is interesting because I never had any death wobble, and yesterday I changed out all my front wheel bearings, and the drivers side spindle. For the first time today my truck started the DW. I have no clue what it could be execpt that maybe I put the left tire on the right side and vice versa. I am going to go and change them now and see what happens. Has anyone found any solutions that work? I dont get how putting new wheel bearings in could make this problem develop. Anyone fixed the problem by tightening or loosening the wheel bearing nuts? Thanks
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

With what Rene said....<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

LOL...what I meant was that DW seems to be a D60 problem, not 10 bolt or D44.

<hr></blockquote>

I have heard a few with it in a 10 bolt or 44's, but very few. As Rene says it seems to be more of a D60 problem. People have tried Caster/Camber changes, etc., etc., etc., etc. but I'm wondering if it is a King Pin problem as that seems to be the only major difference (other than size) between the front axles. I have seen some tri-axle dumps that have developed a shimmy from the front end and it is cured by replacing the King Pins (removing the old pins, oversize drilling and bushing the King Pin mounts and installing new King Pins). Usually won't happen on new trucks, but happens as they age. Many people "rebuild" their D60 King Pins by replacing the plastic bushings, but I have heard several mechanics say the actually pins wear as well and should be replaced when doing the bushings on older vehicles. Some say how can the plastic wear the metal, but think how a rubber seal wears metal on crank snouts, pinion yokes, etc.

I wonder if worn and not replaced correctly King Pins could be a heavy contributor (again not the sole source) of "Death Wobble"?

I know people will Boyce axles that have experienced DW, and they (Boyce) say they go through the King Pins, but do they just put in the bushings and leave the old pins....?

Just some ramblings and thoughts going through my head as I was reading this. Take it for what it's worth /forums/images/icons/wink.gif
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

I have a 10 bolt with DW, both before and after the rebuild.
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

Man, this took a good 1/2 hour to read. /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

Just gonna share my experiences and thoughts. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

I have had a few (5 of them /forums/images/icons/wink.gif) K30's and the only one that has the DW is my current '85 with 4" and 35" tires.

I am on my third set of tires with this truck. The first set did not experience the DW at all. Those wore out and I bought a used set of BFG All Terrains.
These BFG's rode ok for a while, but they were not balanced. Later when they were near baldness, the DW started up. This was only during the braking periods at lower speeds of around 45 and lower.
So, I finally bought a new set and the current tires I have now. At the same time I got the tires, I got new shocks and a new stabilizer, too. The new tires were balanced real good, too. I installed all the new shocks and the DW went away, for a while. Shocks were the RS5000's, including the stabilizer.
Today, this truck still has DW, but at certain speeds of around 40-25 mph. And only during braking or slowing down. It never DW's while speeding up or driving along anywhere. Not even coasting along either. Just slowing down by braking is the cause of my DW.
I assumed the rotors were warped, but have not turned them yet.

Now, on the old "Brown Turd" '82 K30 I had, it had the 39" MT's on them and did not have DW.
When that day came that I installed those big 46" Firestones and went to the mud pit, that truck was all over the road, BAD!! Those tires were 21.5" wide!! I have reason to believe the wider tires helped cause the DW, too. Maximum speed I could drive with those tires was around 20 mph. /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

My theory to the DW could be, but not necessarily be, the problem of the kingpin itself. I think it's the plastic bushing that sits on the kingpin on the top of the knuckle.
Being it a plastic piece and subject to a lot of weight due to bigger tires and wider rims, etc., it's putting a load on that little plastic piece.
I remember reading somewhere on the POR site that someone built a D60 rear with steering capabilities and they had machine work done to the knuckles in order to accept a tapered roller bearing for the top knuckle in order to eliminate the plastic bushing. This set up makes the top just like the bottom of the cap and knuckle.

So, if someone were to experiment and do some work to eliminate the top plastic bushing and install a roller bearing, this may help aid to making the kingpin "tighter" thus creating a more solid knuckle.
Afterall, how many of you have seen the plastic bushing cracked or broken when you went in to check it out or rebuild, etc.? I have seen them broken nearly everytime I popped the cap off. Probably too much stress on them. If it were a roller bearing, it would not be so stressful as the plastic.

Now for those who ask, "what about D44's and 10 bolts"? I am almost positive that problem lies in the ball joints themselves. If you have replaced them for new ones, have the pre-load on them been set properly? Are they good name brand parts? Just some ideas here.

Lastly, I will also say that the steering stabilizer is one of the more important items to install especially when lifting a truck and running larger tires. Getting a good quality stabilizer that offers good strong damping forces will help in fixing the DW, but not curing it. Even dual stabilizers will help better than a single stabilizer, especially for larger tires. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

Now, can we find someone who has the time and ability to do some machine work to make the top D60 knuckles accept a roller bearing? Someone who can do this work and experiment to see what they find?
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

TTT.

Anybody have any ideas or suggestions about removing the plastic kingpin bushing and replacing it for a tapered roller bearing?
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

ford did something like that, they are called balljoints and they used them on 60s
anyone have a balljoint 60 with DW?
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

Yeah, I'm aware of Ford and their ball joints, but I'm still trying to stick with the kingpin type knuckles.

I do remember seeing a thread on POR where someone built a Terra 60 steerable rearend and did some machine work to the top part of the knuckle and installed a roller bearing.
 
Re: Need help, death wobble, can\'t drive much longer.....

I COULD AND WOULD BUT I DONT HAVE A 60 /forums/images/icons/frown.gif
 
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