Need more Flex but No more lift.

[GRINCH]

For those of you who don't get over to the 67-72 forum. I need some help.
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247095&page=13

While trying to figure out the new mounts for the shocks. I discovered I have very little flex in the front.

It got me thinking that maybe I went the wrong direction on the build.

I used Tuff Countys 2" HD springs up front. The reason I went HD's is because of the Cad 500, Heavy winch bumper and winch.

I used the hillbilly garage method to check my flex. I hooked the cherry picker to the front frame horn and lifted it until the tire was off the ground. I measured from the top of the spring plate to the frame and it went down a ½”.

My original plan was not lift at all but I thought I would gain a little flex with the TC lift.

So I have spent the last 3 days reading every post on the 52” springs. I’m not sure I want go this route either.

My main reason are:

Body roll on the road through the corners. ( I drive it to the wheeling/racing locations)
And side hilling.

I want some front flex with little (2”) or no lift and a stable ride.

What about running 73-87 2” front TC lift springs? They are 47” long and have the same spring rate 495 as the 69-72 EZ rides 42”.
I could order Kerts B52 kit and move the rear spring hanger. They would be 5” shorter.

Or should I call dever or alcan and get a custom set?. But I would still prob have to move the mounts.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Run 52's in the front with the overload. Remove leaves until you get the ride height you want.

You can get very little lift this way with lots of flex.

Be aware, however, that if you put 52's up front like most of us do it will move the front axle forward and will necessitate some changes in your steering setup.

 

[jms]

So. Either my '85 (on 3" TC HDs) is a lot heavier than your truck (350/dual optimas/ORD bumper/Ramsey 9.5 winch with steel cable, unsprung: D60, 35s, Hi-steer), or 3" TC HD springs are a lot softer than 2" TC HD springs, or something is wrong. Measured at the stock shock mounts (forklift test, lift at tires) I have about 8 inches of front travel. That's with the truck lifted at the rear tire. If I lift it in the front, it's only 6.5" of travel. Somehow, I think if you lift at the frame horn, there's not that much reason for the suspension to move. You're just unloading one spring, and you're not making the weight of the truck work the springs. I also assume that that spring hasn't seen any action, so it might need a few flex cycles under load before it's performing right (I've had those front springs on the truck for 2+ years at the time when we tested flex...). How about spring eye bolts and shackle bolts - possibly too tight? Last point, unless you want to go the 52 route, I believe the difference between TC HD and EZ ride is that short bottom leaf in the HDs - it might be worthwhile to take that leaf out of the pack and see what the truck does then.

 

[GRINCH]

Run 52's in the front with the overload. Remove leaves until you get the ride height you want.

You can get very little lift this way with lots of flex.

Be aware, however, that if you put 52's up front like most of us do it will move the front axle forward and will necessitate some changes in your steering setup.

I know my build thread is long.. So just in case.

First Gen build.. 1972

1" body lift

Rear: 14 SF, Disks, DIY4X Shackle flip, Crossed tied shackles with new greaseable bushings and new 73-87 stock springs.

Front: D60, TC HD 2.5" lift springs, ORD HD shackles and greaseable bushings. 1" zero. moving axle forward

ORD Crossover steering and I have a ram for assist.

To be honest ... Running the 52's scare me a little. Ever since I rolled I don't like a top heavy unstable rig. Hence cutting my fenders and looking for flex with no or little lift.

Since the First Gen springs are only 42" long what would stock or 2" front Sec Gen springs 47" do?

 

[GRINCH]

So. Either my '85 (on 3" TC HDs) is a lot heavier than your truck (350/dual optimas/ORD bumper/Ramsey 9.5 winch with steel cable, unsprung: D60, 35s, Hi-steer), or 3" TC HD springs are a lot softer than 2" TC HD springs, or something is wrong. Measured at the stock shock mounts (forklift test, lift at tires) I have about 8 inches of front travel. That's with the truck lifted at the rear tire. If I lift it in the front, it's only 6.5" of travel. Somehow, I think if you lift at the frame horn, there's not that much reason for the suspension to move. You're just unloading one spring, and you're not making the weight of the truck work the springs. I also assume that that spring hasn't seen any action, so it might need a few flex cycles under load before it's performing right (I've had those front springs on the truck for 2+ years at the time when we tested flex...). How about spring eye bolts and shackle bolts - possibly too tight? Last point, unless you want to go the 52 route, I believe the difference between TC HD and EZ ride is that short bottom leaf in the HDs - it might be worthwhile to take that leaf out of the pack and see what the truck does then.

Spring rates are different between the First Gens and Second for some reason.

67-72 2" EZRIDE 495 and HD 550
73-87 2" EZRIDE 325 and HD 495 (3" are the same)

I was concerned about lifting it at the frame horn giving me an accurate test. My thought was the weight of the axle would pull down on the spring with the tire in the air.

I thought about pulling the bottom leaf and see what it does.

 

[cybrfire]

You lifted on the horn and measured droop on the same side? If that's the case, your rig is capable of more flex.

If you were lifting on the tire it'd force more flex out of the springs opposite side would droop further.

 

[MTBLAZER89]

You lifted on the horn and measured droop on the same side? If that's the case, your rig is capable of more flex.

If you were lifting on the tire it'd force more flex out of the springs opposite side would droop further.

x2

Try lifting it at the tire and measure again.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

To be honest ... Running the 52's scare me a little. Ever since I rolled I don't like a top heavy unstable rig. Hence cutting my fenders and looking for flex with no or little lift.

Since the First Gen springs are only 42" long what would stock or 2" front Sec Gen springs 47" do?

I run crossover/hydro assist and 52's with 3 leaves and the overload, its pretty close to stock ride height, 1" lift at most.

My buggy is way stable, I've never rolled it and I'm pretty happy with how the front end works. Lots of flex of course.

I really don't think you should shy away from 52's because you think they'll be unstable but that comes from my own experience which may be a little different.

 

[owenst7]

Run 52's in the front with the overload. Remove leaves until you get the ride height you want.

You can get very little lift this way with lots of flex.

Be aware, however, that if you put 52's up front like most of us do it will move the front axle forward and will necessitate some changes in your steering setup.

I'm running 52"s with the axle in stock location. You just need the front eye 3" forward of stock. I definitely wouldn't recommend using stock steerig with any suspension travel though.

Best way to modify flex without changing springs is to adjust the shackle angle and length. Fix the stock shackle angle (it is backwards because it is designed for recurve springs) and put a longer shackle on there. It will ride better than it does now and add a lot of travel. If you are worried about caster, increase the shackle angle to decrease the vertical component of it's length.

 

[72blazerguy]

I know my build thread is long.. So just in case.


Since the First Gen springs are only 42" long what would stock or 2" front Sec Gen springs 47" do?

I have a 71 and am running the newer front spring setup w/ 6" lift. Went with a longer rear shackle (7 1/2). It definitely flexes much better. I had to trim some fender to keep the tires out of the rear of the fenderwell and will be moving the axle forward in the future. You will be better off since you have used the zero rate to move the axle forward.

The longer springs will do what you want (same as the newer generation going to 52).

One other thought, I ended up going to cross over steering after using the longer springs. Steering was almost impossible once the front end started to stretch (especially the drivers side). Looks like you're all set here.

 

[blazinzuk]

When you are flexing it, lift the other end of the truck, if you want to check bump on the drivers front then lift the passenger rear. This will also let you check droop on the passenger front.

Longer springs will almost always help with flex. I would put the longest spring in there you could.

I am running 57s (one ton or burban rear springs) up front I have about 3" of lift (I think?) It is plenty stable on the road and off road, but I have pretty wide tires too (19.5) Even when I had my 42s it was very stable.

I think you might be able to play with your shackle angle too. You need a shackle that is longer than the stock one and you need some angle on the shackle. Longer springs and the shackle angle and length are the keys to flex in a leaf spring suspension.

If you can swing it I would certainly consider custom springs. I actually think you would be just fine using the second gen springs up front in the ez ride version but it might require some fine tuning (read: moving of the shackle hanger) of the shackle angle, too much and you will lose stability on the road too little and you will lose flex

Hope this helped a little

 

[GRINCH]

I will need to wait until I get it all back together again to see. It's all stripped down again ready to go to paint. (waiting on painter to get some room).

So no sense trying to simulate flex.

I was trying to make sure everything was good before paint. I may run the TC 2.5" to see how they do. And since they are the HD version I will even try to pull out the bottom leaf.

Part of me wants to jump the gun and just go with longer springs, either the 73-87 2" TC 47" or the 52" stock rears up front.

My thoughts on the 47" versus the 52" would be that I shouldn't have to move the rear spring hanger. Does anyone know if the 47" stock 2" TC springs are offset?

 

[owenst7]

I will need to wait until I get it all back together again to see. It's all stripped down again ready to go to paint. (waiting on painter to get some room).

So no sense trying to simulate flex.

I was trying to make sure everything was good before paint. I may run the TC 2.5" to see how they do. And since they are the HD version I will even try to pull out the bottom leaf.

Part of me wants to jump the gun and just go with longer springs, either the 73-87 2" TC 47" or the 52" stock rears up front.

My thoughts on the 47" versus the 52" would be that I shouldn't have to move the rear spring hanger. Does anyone know if the 47" stock 2" TC springs are offset?

There is no reason to move the rear shackle eye if you switch to 52"s and leave the axle in the stock location. This is mine with the axle located stock, stock rear frame eye, stock 52"s (off the rear of the truck), and a 6" shackle. It rides good on the highway and flexes like mad considering the cost and ease of installation.

there's no reason to move the shackle eye unless you want to run 46"s or move the axle forward. I don't really see the point of spending money on custom 46"s. They're never going to ride as good as a 52/56, and they cost way more. I could even still run my stock swaybar with my 52"s if I wanted, if it weren't for my crossover being in the way.

I have never really liked the idea of moving the shackle eye. My angle isn't that bad with 52s and the axle an inch forward (all I'm ever going to get unless I want to extend the frame or run a weird bumper). If you're determined you need a perfect angle with the axle moved forward, run 56s from a burb (they're offset 4", so the axle wouldn't move but the shackle angle would increase by 4" horizontally). Or, you could redrill your springs to offset the center pin on their arc.

 

[GRINCH]

There is no reason to move the rear shackle eye if you switch to 52"s and leave the axle in the stock location. This is mine with the axle located stock, stock rear frame eye, stock 52"s (off the rear of the truck), and a 6" shackle. It rides good on the highway and flexes like mad considering the cost and ease of installation.

Remember this is a First Gen and our stock springs are shorter by about 5", about 42"

 

[4X4HIGH]

I know you said no more lift but i know Greg is trying to sell his front Alcan springs but they are roughly 4" lift. They are super soft. http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263564

 

[owenst7]

Remember this is a First Gen and our stock springs are shorter by about 5", about 42"

oops