need some help after replacing pinion seal, re-setup gears?

[muddybuddy]

hey guys, i changed the pinion seal on my d70HD and now when i drive the truck it shutters when i hit the brake, only when i hit the brake. the harder i hit the brake the worse it gets. it seems to be alright when under throttle and coasting. the gears are factory 4.10's from '85 and the yoke had probably never been off til now.

i was thinking that i'd have to reset the pinion, but i thought that as long as i didnt mess with the gears or anything in the diff that when i torque the yoke back down the pinion would seat back on the bearing. (i didnt mark it before i took it off, i know. i've changed several pinion seals and never had any issue til now)

any idea what my problem is? any way of avoiding resetting the gears? im going on a trip august 1st so i need to get this figured out before then (planning on taking the truck). thanks for the help guys

 

[nsxxtreme]

hey guys, i changed the pinion seal on my d70HD and now when i drive the truck it shutters when i hit the brake, only when i hit the brake.

Just changing the seal should have no effect on the gear alignment. Are you sure you got the shims back in correctly and put the required preload on the pinion bearings and carrier bearings?

If disc brake warped rotors? If drum brakes maybe you put the drums back on the wrong side so wear pattern is different.

 

[fubar_k5]

sorry to hijack into this thread but I was wondering the same thing i gotta replace the carrier bearings in my 70hd it still has the same 4:56 gears from the factory it has alot of back lash but seems about the same as any other older axle was wondering if i should reset back lash or if i could leave it. hijack off

 

[Stomis]

Just changing the seal should have no effect on the gear alignment. Are you sure you got the shims back in correctly and put the required preload on the pinion bearings and carrier bearings?

Not true. If you take the yoke off to replace the seal and you tighten too much you'll over crush the sleeve and ruin your pinion bearing preload.

I'm usually a huge advocate of come the hell on if you do it carefully enough you dont need to replace the sleeve but you got dealt a bad card ...


First of stop driving i before you damage the gears.

Take the cover off. Pull the carrier. Be very careful to keep track of your shims and caps. Unbolt the yoke and knock the pinion out carefully. Replace the crush sleeve. Reinstall everything and properly torque the yoke til it has the spec for rolling torque resistance.

Now if you keep track of how you took everything out and go slowly you wont have to set any other tolerances like pinion depth and backlash. IDK what your knowledge of setting up gears is but if you take your time anyone with basic mechanical knowledge could do it.

I can get more specific if your gonna go at it.

 

[muddybuddy]

Not true. If you take the yoke off to replace the seal and you tighten too much you'll over crush the sleeve and ruin your pinion bearing preload.

I'm usually a huge advocate of come the hell on if you do it carefully enough you dont need to replace the sleeve but you got dealt a bad card ...


First of stop driving i before you damage the gears.

Take the cover off. Pull the carrier. Be very careful to keep track of your shims and caps. Unbolt the yoke and knock the pinion out carefully. Replace the crush sleeve. Reinstall everything and properly torque the yoke til it has the spec for rolling torque resistance.

Now if you keep track of how you took everything out and go slowly you wont have to set any other tolerances like pinion depth and backlash. IDK what your knowledge of setting up gears is but if you take your time anyone with basic mechanical knowledge could do it.

I can get more specific if your gonna go at it.

thanks for the info! yea i have only driven it ~1-2 miles, just to test it after several times of taking the yoke back off and re-torquing it. i have a VERY basic knowledge of setting up gears. i will pm you for more detail about going at it

also, for what its worth, the new seal still leaks a little bit

 

[blazinzuk]

did the yoke leak right away, pretty much as you filled it up, or did you notice after you drove it. You could have a bad pinion bearing

 

[4X4HIGH]

Every Dana axle i've seen uses shims to adjust pinion preload NOT a crush sleeve. You should check into that for this application. From the sounds of it I don't think your issue is a pinion bearing preload issue.

 

[Stomis]

did the yoke leak right away, pretty much as you filled it up, or did you notice after you drove it. You could have a bad pinion bearing

This is true. Or your yoke needs to be sleeved.

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Every Dana axle i've seen uses shims to adjust pinion preload NOT a crush sleeve. You should check into that for this application. From the sounds of it I don't think your issue is a pinion bearing preload issue.

There are lots and lots of Dana axles out there with crush sleeves. Most use shims, but there are plenty of crush sleeve Dana axles too.

As mentioned, the pinion bearing could be bad. Or a little bit of something could've found it's way in between the shims (if it uses them) before you tightened it back down, even a tiny bit of gasket material that's a the thickness of a hair is enough to throw the pinion bearing preload well out of spec. It could be leaking because the sealing surface of the yoke is pitted.

If it uses a crush sleeve it's probably misadjusted and the lack of pinion bearing preload is causing the issue.

 

[Stomis]

Theres dana axles that use solid spacers and shims for preload? I've never seen that before. I'm not being sarcastic I thought they were all crush sleeves...

 

[Hogback Fabrication]

Theres dana axles that use solid spacers and shims for preload? I've never seen that before. I'm not being sarcastic I thought they were all crush sleeves...

Yep, most Dana axles just use shims. I think every GM D44 and D60 I've dealt with used shims but I've setup D30's, 35, 44 and 60's that used crush sleeves.

 

[obijuan]

sometimes in rare circumstances, rotate the driveshaft 180* and put it back on.

my dad suggested that to me once in a similar situation and it frickin worked. lost that bet.

 

[nsxxtreme]

Every Dana axle i've seen uses shims to adjust pinion preload NOT a crush sleeve. You should check into that for this application. From the sounds of it I don't think your issue is a pinion bearing preload issue.

Took the words out of my mouth thanks.

 

[Stomis]

Yep, most Dana axles just use shims. I think every GM D44 and D60 I've dealt with used shims but I've setup D30's, 35, 44 and 60's that used crush sleeves.

Yep last axle I did was a 35 and it was a sleeve. Never had the pinion out of my front 44 just did the seal.

 

[muddybuddy]

well i picked up a crush sleeve for the d70hd from work (work at an auto parts store part-time). i'll order a pinion bearing as well and see if i need it, if not ill just return it.

i noticed the seal leaking after i moved the truck around in the driveway but i also dont think the axle was completely full of fluid so it might have come out before then had it been all the way full.

what is involved with gettin the yoke sleeved?

 

[Stomis]

well i picked up a crush sleeve for the d70hd from work (work at an auto parts store part-time). i'll order a pinion bearing as well and see if i need it, if not ill just return it.

i noticed the seal leaking after i moved the truck around in the driveway but i also dont think the axle was completely full of fluid so it might have come out before then had it been all the way full.

what is involved with gettin the yoke sleeved?

Getting the yoke sleeved will usually be a kit. Put the yoke in the freezer over night, put the sleeve in the toaster oven for 10ins and tap it on with a piece of wood. Generally speaking depending on the sleeve thickness a seal thats a tad larger ID will come with the kit.

Remember, when you replace a seal you gotta clean up really good so you can be sure its not leaking again.

 

[Fordum]

What you are doing is not a bad thing. Its better to be sure than have to buy or rebuild a rear end.
But, I'm pretty sure its not going to fix the shudder.

I'm not even sure how a improperly set up rear end could cause a shudder only when hitting the brakes.

You could try knocking the truck into neutral before hitting the brakes to take any load off.
If it still shudders then, I don't think its the rear end.

The standard cause, by far, is warped rotors on a disk brake setup.
The next, I suppose would be warped drums.

I had that on a car of mine, but they were built wrong somehow. We turned them a couple of times but the problem kept coming back.
Stopped when I replaced them. Drums are just not that likely to warp.

The problem here is, it started after you replaced the seal. Did you do anything at all to the wheels while you were working on it? Rotate the tires, check the brakes?

If you have rear drums, and the emergency brake works ok, you can try holding the e-brake release, and use the e-brake to stop the truck.
If it shudders then, then the problem is in the rear brakes. If not, then the front.

 

[muddybuddy]

What you are doing is not a bad thing. Its better to be sure than have to buy or rebuild a rear end.
But, I'm pretty sure its not going to fix the shudder.

I'm not even sure how a improperly set up rear end could cause a shudder only when hitting the brakes.

You could try knocking the truck into neutral before hitting the brakes to take any load off.
If it still shudders then, I don't think its the rear end.

The standard cause, by far, is warped rotors on a disk brake setup.
The next, I suppose would be warped drums.

I had that on a car of mine, but they were built wrong somehow. We turned them a couple of times but the problem kept coming back.
Stopped when I replaced them. Drums are just not that likely to warp.

The problem here is, it started after you replaced the seal. Did you do anything at all to the wheels while you were working on it? Rotate the tires, check the brakes?

If you have rear drums, and the emergency brake works ok, you can try holding the e-brake release, and use the e-brake to stop the truck.
If it shudders then, then the problem is in the rear brakes. If not, then the front.

yea i could try putting it in neutral and see if it still shudders. the axle has disc conversion on it and i didnt touch anything else on the truck when i did the seal. it just seemed weird that it started happening right after i did the seal, and everything was perfectly fine before. whats the best way to go about checking to see if the rotors are warped if you cant visually tell?

thanks guys for the help unfortunately its 100* outside and humid as sh!t...what a great afternoon to spend under the truck. if the truck gets fixed tho it will be worth it, it'll be a blast on the beach for a week

 

[Stomis]

yea i could try putting it in neutral and see if it still shudders. the axle has disc conversion on it and i didnt touch anything else on the truck when i did the seal. it just seemed weird that it started happening right after i did the seal, and everything was perfectly fine before. whats the best way to go about checking to see if the rotors are warped if you cant visually tell?

thanks guys for the help unfortunately its 100* outside and humid as sh!t...what a great afternoon to spend under the truck. if the truck gets fixed tho it will be worth it, it'll be a blast on the beach for a week

Dial indicator on the rotors to measure the run out. shouldnt be more than .003. Anything more and you'll feel it.

 

[Fordum]

Actually you might be able to see it. Take a light and shine it on the disk. Let it reflect off and see if you see a pattern. If they are warped, parts will get more wear than others and will develop a pattern you can see.
But you probably have not driven it far enough for that to happen.
If you don't have a dial indicator, you can clamp a wooden dowel to the frame and let it lightly touch the disk.
When you spin the disk, you can see if it is warped.

Or you can clamp a nut to the frame and screw a screw through until it lightly touches.
Makes it easier to adjust