sled_dog said:
Ooo, Fancy!! LOL
CK5
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New 6.4 Powerstroke Flame Throwers
- Thread starter sandracer799
- Start date
Ooo, Fancy!! LOL
My question is how needed are all these controls?
Going back to my buddy's 85 1 ton 4wd dump with an underpowered 350. The emissions for his year and GVRWs stated that tailpipe emissions had to read x%.
GM didn't know how to change the amount of polluntants coming out of the motor, so they installed dual air pumps into the exhaust manifold (no cat) true dual exhaust from the factory. Now the extra O2 may have helped but all they were doing is raising the denominator to meet tailpipe emissions standards.
Simpler terms. The motor injests 450 CFM of air at a particular load and RPM, it then adds a ratio of fuel (roughly 1 part fuel for every 14 parts air), it combusts and then produces a fixed amount of combustion byproducts. That amount doesn't change (say 5 grams for every 100 cubic feet exiting the tailpipe), but as it exits the tailpipe it would be above the ratio that the EPA mandates. So GM decided to add air pumps to pump extra fresh air into the exhaust, which takes power to run the pumps and makes it LESS efficient in reality but on paper (actually out the tailpipe) it meets the EPA regulations. It's still putting the same amount of pollutants into the air, it just puts more fresh air out the tailpipe as well to lower the "percentage". Since it takes power to turn the pumps, the engines are less efficient and actually pollute more, but met the standards.... WTF
I'm hoping this isn't more of the same...
It seems as if we burn X amount of diesel, but then inject more diesel (which does nothing for power or efficiency of the motor) which means per mile we are burning more diesel than ever before. More diesel per mile means more crap in the air regardless of how you cut it on paper....
Sorry rant off :-)
Going back to my buddy's 85 1 ton 4wd dump with an underpowered 350. The emissions for his year and GVRWs stated that tailpipe emissions had to read x%.
GM didn't know how to change the amount of polluntants coming out of the motor, so they installed dual air pumps into the exhaust manifold (no cat) true dual exhaust from the factory. Now the extra O2 may have helped but all they were doing is raising the denominator to meet tailpipe emissions standards.
Simpler terms. The motor injests 450 CFM of air at a particular load and RPM, it then adds a ratio of fuel (roughly 1 part fuel for every 14 parts air), it combusts and then produces a fixed amount of combustion byproducts. That amount doesn't change (say 5 grams for every 100 cubic feet exiting the tailpipe), but as it exits the tailpipe it would be above the ratio that the EPA mandates. So GM decided to add air pumps to pump extra fresh air into the exhaust, which takes power to run the pumps and makes it LESS efficient in reality but on paper (actually out the tailpipe) it meets the EPA regulations. It's still putting the same amount of pollutants into the air, it just puts more fresh air out the tailpipe as well to lower the "percentage". Since it takes power to turn the pumps, the engines are less efficient and actually pollute more, but met the standards.... WTF
I'm hoping this isn't more of the same...
It seems as if we burn X amount of diesel, but then inject more diesel (which does nothing for power or efficiency of the motor) which means per mile we are burning more diesel than ever before. More diesel per mile means more crap in the air regardless of how you cut it on paper....
Sorry rant off :-)
GEORGIA GABE
1/2 ton status
Leadfoot said:
an air pump actually pumps in more air to increase the ammount of O2 in the exhaust causing the converter to work at a higher temp and burn off more of the shiot that we dont want... Its not there just to dilute the exhaust gasses and change the tailpipe reading.
83ZZ502_Jimmy
1/2 ton status
GEORGIA GABE said:
But in his reply, he stated this particular application did not come with CATS from the factory..
GEORGIA GABE
1/2 ton status
With no cat you are right, it makes no sense at all.
sled_dog
1 ton status
GEORGIA GABE said:
you guys don't fully understand the concept of an AIR pump system. The injection of cool outside air directly at the exhaust manifolds will cause combustion in the manifolds. It actually causes combustion in the exhaust stream to reduce emissions. The AIR pump systems that are intended to add more oxygen to the cat and aid its operation are the ones that actually plumb into the Cat or right before it. AIR stands for "Air Injection Reactor". Thats why it is AIR not Air...
K5MONSTERCHEV
1/2 ton status
sled_dog said:
OH it still puts out some soot!!!! I can leave a big ass black cloud, the only thing I see with the ULSD is less mileage, which sucks. There are places still selling Regular #2?
As for the ford, what do you expect? Sounds like crap too. I think I read something where they put an equivelant of 10million miles on these 6.4s in testing, just a few more to go.
sled_dog said:
If there are any hydrocarbons left to burn after the air/fuel mix exits the cylinders, it is doing nothing to increase efficiency (actually just the opposite). If the motor is not set up properly and fuel is exiting the cylinder unburned, it takes HP from the motor to inject air into the "AIR" system to combust it, making it less efficient and burning more fuel (more pollutants). I'm not an expert, but injecting more fuel into the motor than it can handle is a waste from the start (one good reason for high speed ECM's and quick rate wide band O2 sensors).
My bitch was bandaiding the issue vs. curing it. Curing it would have been the most environmentally friendly way (which was what was driving the emissions standards to begin with) and better on the consumer wallet in the long run.
Just venting, don't take anything I say to heart.
sled_dog
1 ton status
Leadfoot said:
I agree on all counts, but in 1980 something what else could they do? They were idiots.
I still hold high the fact that auto engineers are either hired straight out of High School Special-Ed classes, or are at least required to prove they can shove their head up their own anus before they are hired....
Direct Injection is THE way to reduce emissions, increase mileage, and make more horsepower. We just can't get off of our alternative fuels kick long enough to realize that if we just spent a tiny bit more time refining our gasoline we could solve a lot of problems in the mean time. At least then we could have some more time and better air to breath while we develop alternate fuel ****.
Most Japanese car makers have had Direct Injection Gasoline engines in their cars since the mid 90s if not earlier.
Mazda is the only one that I know to bring them here, and only recently.
