New Rule Opens National Forest to Roads

[DPI]

I know this should go under land use. But this is exciting news for us offroaders!

Thanks Bush!!!

The 58.5 million acres involved, mainly in Alaska and in western states, had been put off limits to development by former President Clinton, eight days before he left office in January 2001.

Under existing local forest management plans, some 34.3 million acres of these pristine woodlands could be opened to road construction. That would be the first step in allowing logging, mining and other industry and wider recreational uses of the land.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050505/ap_on_go_ot/roadless_forests

 

[Bubba Ray Boudreaux]

:d :d :d

 

[Fierospeeder]

i dont mind people off roading in the woods or dirtbiking. But i hope this doesn't ruin all the land we have left. Mining is very harsh for the environment. Plus, having non union walmarts on every street corner too.

 

[Thunder]

Minings cool! No finer site than a big open pit mine with lots of people working making good money to spend at Wal-Mart.
Except maby logging trucks rolling down the highways again and new saw mills opening up.
Hope all that land that is being re opened is in the Pacific Northwest. Lots of old growrh timber up there that needs to be cleared out before it burns and is no use to anyone.

 

[CyberSniper]

Modern mining and logging doesn't hurt like it did 30+ years ago. However, you have to watch the ****heads and bite like a beartrap or else they'll cut corners. My favorite part is how they'll selectively cut in places where people can see but in other places they'll clearcut and leave all the brush behind to fuel a forest fire... or better yet decide that it isn't worth hauling out 40+ truckloads of logs already cut in piles because the market price isn't high enough so they let it rot. The miners will do the same kinds of crap.


I just hope the BLM, DNR, and DEQ can handle it. They tend to be manginas and would rather do nothing than do something and risk looking bad or just plain always say no. Most of the time they should be called the "Department of No" or the "Department of Inaction".

 

[jekbrown]

This is good news. For all the "our forests are almost gone" crowd, recognize the fact that there are more trees in the US today than there were in 1860. Sometimes it doesn't seem like it because an area near us gets clear cut and you think "oh chit, we have no trees left!!!" but nothing could be further from the truth. Trees are a renewable resource and should be used as such.

one last point... trees don't do a SINGLE thing to "scrub the atmosphere of CO2" unless you cut them down and preserve the wood. If you don't, when the treet falls over and decays, every bit of CO2 it "filtered" goes right back into the environment.

j

 

[mini_mull]

Bush

This could be the first step in bringing back jobs and economic resources to the small towns that have been dying all over the west, thanks to Clinton and the rest of the tree hugger bunch trying to stop all logging and all mining. My husband grew up in a town like that in AZ. IIRC, they had to shut down the mill after the spotted owl fiasco (which BTW was proved to be BS as the spotted owl does not nest in the same tree every year). Killed the local economy. Trees are one of the only renewable resources, and responsible mining has more pros than cons IMO. Thank goodness we finally have a president who realizes that. Oh and Amen to everyone's comments so far (except fiero, no offense just HUGE difference of opinion).

 

[Emmettology 101]

Wonderful.

I am sure I'll be black listed for this one, but I'll take my chances.

While I am all for wheelin and keeping wheelin trails open, I dont see this as a good thing... Just brings asshat Bush one more step closer to passing crap bills that open up places like the wildlife reserves in Alaska...

Nothing like selling out our national forests, our beautiful landscapes and our country to "corporate special interests"!!

 

[DPI]

Wonderful.

I am sure I'll be black listed for this one, but I'll take my chances.

While I am all for wheelin and keeping wheelin trails open, I dont see this as a good thing... Just brings asshat Bush one more step closer to passing crap bills that open up places like the wildlife reserves in Alaska...

Nothing like selling out our national forests, our beautiful landscapes and our country to "corporate special interests"!!

What liberal media bias have you been listening to? Alakan wildlife reserves!?!?! If your talking about drilling for oil using roughly 5 thousand acres out of millions of acres to help with the current oil shortage caused by middle eastern greed and the lack of new refineries. Then so be it!!!

Until we find an alternative fuel, this is the best we have got. The damn liberals have kept us from building a new refinery to process oil for 20 + years. They have kept us from building wind powered gerenaters because it will make their precious Kenny Bunkport Maine look bad, even though these wind powered generators are the cleanest producers of power we have. The liberals have also kept us from building Nuclear power plants - the reason there are roving blackouts in CA...

Like was mentioned above. Trees are a renewable resource. Clear cutting keeps down fire hazards and disease. You guys who talk about corporate greed need to find the facts instead of listening to the liberal media.

 

[mini_mull]

What liberal media bias have you been listening to? Alakan wildlife reserves!?!?! If your talking about drilling for oil using roughly 5 thousand acres out of millions of acres to help with the current oil shortage caused by middle eastern greed and the lack of new refineries. Then so be it!!!

Until we find an alternative fuel, this is the best we have got. The damn liberals have kept us from building a new refinery to process oil for 20 + years. They have kept us from building wind powered gerenaters because it will make their precious Kenny Bunkport Maine look bad, even though these wind powered generators are the cleanest producers of power we have. The liberals have also kept us from building Nuclear power plants - the reason there are roving blackouts in CA...

Like was mentioned above. Trees are a renewable resource. Clear cutting keeps down fire hazards and disease. You guys who talk about corporate greed need to find the facts instead of listening to the liberal media.

Amen, DP. Funny thing, IIRC, the same people against drilling also said the Alaskan Pipeline would kill all the caribou and ruin the reserves, but as it turns out, the caribou population has actually risen, since during the harshest freezes the caribou bed near the pipeline to keep from freezing to death. Funny how mother earth is usually tougher and more adaptable than we usually give her credit for. Conservation, not radical enviromentalism is the way to go.

BTW, I'm not sure this thread belongs in the Garage anymore, maybe one of the mods should take a look at it.

 

[gravdigr]

I don't consider myself a tree hugger. I value human life over a batch of bats (old debate in this area when they started the I99 project that will replace a 2 lane blacktop that claims several lives a year and dozens of accidents). But I really don't support clearcutting and strip mining millions of acres of forest. It takes decades to get the top soil back from strip mining. We have a strip mine that was mined out over 50 years ago and there's still nothing but scrub grass for miles and the stream is still polluted orange with sulfur. Not to mention they just leave the drag line machines up there to rot because it cheaper to buy a new one than move the old one down. Even the PA game commision is allowing "protected" state game lands to be strip mined and logged. I've seen state game land that my grandfather hunted on get logged and left to the point where it's now unusable with dead trees and branches so thick you can't get through them.

I'm a sportsman that hunts and fishes along with wheeling. I'd like to hope that when my grandkids grow up they might be able to do the same.

 

[Thunder]

Ummmm.................. You cant strip mine any more or clear cut. There are FED and STATE regulations that stop such actions. Forests that are cut have to be replanted Trees are a renewable resourse They grow back! I know this for a fact. Forests that were logged and clear cut when I was a kid. HAVE GORWN BACK! These Redwood Trees that the tree huggers said were gone forever. Some how managed to sprout and grow to their lofty heights again.( with help from the evil lumber companies who tend to their crops) And now....... WOW! 30 years later there is a forest. And in another 30 years. They will be comercially useable and can be cut down again. To make a nice redwood deck to party on.
Trees are a crop that needs to be harvested, replanted and tended.
If it aint grown it has to be mined!
Our civilization could not survive in its prosperious state without mining.
Modern mine disturbes the land but in the long term will not hurt it.
Mines have to be reclaimed. If they mine an area. The mining companies have to improve habitat in surrounding areas for the wildlife and plants.
When the mine has reached the end of its life it has to be reclaimed, replanted, and turned back into a natural setting. Mines are enviromently frendly these days. They can't pollute streams. Air quality emissions from their mills are monitored and regulated.
Some of the best fishing holes around where I live are old mine pits
The local mines are always planting forbes/brush that the deer and elk eat. And have helped their numbers to increase and provided better wildlife habitat on a large scale.
Sooo Cut down those trees and dig those holes
Drill in ANWAR, The Gulf, off CallIfronia coast and anywhere else there is oil. There's GOLD! In Them Thar Hills
Long live Capitalism!

 

[jekbrown]

While I am all for wheelin and keeping wheelin trails open, I dont see this as a good thing... Just brings asshat Bush one more step closer to passing crap bills that open up places like the wildlife reserves in Alaska...

all they are doing is rolling back moronic rules that Clinton passed the last week he was in office. Nothing more. AFA as ANWR goes... that reserve is 19 million acres. The oil companies have the opportunity to buy 2000 of them. That is a ludicrously small percentage. Additionally, as mentioned, warm pipelines and some human infrastructure is prefered by caribou cause they wanna stay warm. The pipeline proved it... enviro nut balls swore up and down that the Alaska pipeline would destroy the caribou... truth is, their population grew by leaps and bounds. Same idiots said Exxon-Valdez would destroy the coast "forever"... truth is you can't even tell there was a spill there and there have been record fish catches since then. Same people say offshore rigs in the gulf of mexico were destroying ecosystems... now we find that abondoned rigs become artificial reefs that are absolutely teaming with marine life. The "environmentalists" are never ever held accountable for these lies and BS "science"... they just move on to the next issue. During the 1990s they were screaming about the "ozone hole"... notice how they have shut the hell up about it in recent years? The list goes on and on.

Anyway, Alaska is a great place to drill for oil. Ever seen what crude is like at 50 degrees below zero? jello. If you spill some, scoop it up and put it in barrels, not a problem, no harm done. Probably the most environmentally sound conditions you could ever drill for oil in. Of course the left tries to convince us that 3rd world countries drilling the stuff (spilling it everywhere and not caring BTW) and shipping it all the way around the globe in tankers instead of just drilling our own is "better for the environment". Please.

Nothing like selling out our national forests, our beautiful landscapes and our country to "corporate special interests"!!

oh brother.

j

 

[mini_mull]

I don't think anyone here (or the pres for that matter) wants irresponsible strip mining or purposeless clear cutting. We all know of past mistakes and even catastrophies, but there are many more safeguards in place now than in the past. I hunt and fish, too, and want my grandkids' grandkids to be able to do the same or even better. I do think though that we can have the best of both worlds as long as logging is managed correctly by the National Forest Management and State Land Bureaus. I see logging as a way to help the forests, not hurt them. In places where the forest is overgrown there is more potential for devastating forest fires and the overgrowth actually has a negative effect on wildlife, especially out west with grazing animals such as deer, elk, and antelope. And if mining is handled responsibly it can have very little adverse effects also while providing jobs for dying rural communities.

 

[mini_mull]

AFA as ANWR goes... that reserve is 19 million acres. The oil companies have the opportunity to buy 2000 of them. That is a ludicrously small percentage.

Thanks for the number, man. I couldn't remember what they were, so I didn't mention it. BTW, good points.

 

[jekbrown]

np... very interesting info here on the official ANWR page...

http://www.anwr.org/topten.htm

I think its hilarious how socialists living in huge cities (that were once rich forests, filled with animals natural habitats, damn it!!!) sit around at dinner parties and talk about how the refuge must be protected yada yada. People up in Alaska, where this stuff is going to happen in their backyard, are really behind this new exploration. Sure, some of that is based on wanting more $/jobs in their state... but I think a lot of Alaskans are more environmentalist than the city-dwelling socialists ever will be... they have read the facts and believe this drilling is a good idea. Thats enough for me.

j

 

[89GMCSuburban]

I agree with you, but......drilling for more oil now won't help until a new refinery is built. With existing refineries working at 98%, there's no room for more production. Supply/demand more refineries = more gas supplies = lower price. Don't expect to see any benefits from this drilling till we build a new refinery.

 

[jekbrown]

I don't expect price changes, just increased domestic supply. It'll be a few years before they are pumping any oil there anyway. We agree on the refineries. IMO the fed gov needs to select a few grades of gasoline and make them standard. Right now there are like 38 different gas mixtures for the 50 states. That is madness. Streamline that, and use old/closed military bases to build new refineries and we'll be set. Its a complete joke that we haven't built a brand new refinery in 30 years even though demand has gone through the roof. Yet another reason to "thank" the enviro-wacko left.

j

 

[Fierospeeder]

(except fiero, no offense just HUGE difference of opinion).

i have no problem with tree cutting. I need my lumber. If we cut more trees then there wouldn't be so many forest fires. It just sucks seeing all that "wood" be destroyed. Plus, the fact that all the pollution from the fires that puts more of a toll with the air we breath.

I am no environmentalist but i try to respect the land. A lot of these environmentalists are hypocrits or just plain idiots. Unless they live on a farm and grow their own crops, then i find themselves using up mother earth. Their clothes are transported from china which causes pollution, the books they read were from trees etc....


I dislike the mining. Just like gravedigr mentioned. The dust and ores escape the mining location. And there is some statistic or number; that says, we have # many mines in the US that have not been transformed back to its natural state. They didn't regulate mining back in the day, and there are a lot of big holes still in this country.
Plus, these mining machines are so freaking huge. They are awesome in size. But they are left to rot in the field. Imagine how much steel can be melted and used to build other things.

If the mining company will take responsibility for their digging, then i have no issue with it. Aslong as they restore the land back to the way they found it.


NO MORE WALMARTS. Now theres something to take away american jobs. Build 10 more GM or Ford plants. Build companies for the american worker. But that is only going to work if people actually boycott walmart and boycott imports from asia. Too many cheapasses.


Developers piss me off too. Yuppies that look to buy farmland cheap and make a quick buck building a strip mall. a lot of these developers have no respect to the people that own farm land. Hounding them daily so they can sell the land that has been passed on generation to generation. so they can have an extra 10 mil in the bank.


Now to oil. The eskimos in alaska are against the drilling. I have no clue if oil will actually drop in price. I believe this is just a short term fix. The population is growing exponentialy and so is the demand. More people means more need of crude oil products. Oil might just stay at 2.50 a gal for the next 5 years. Once the demand over powers supply, it might raise gas prices up. Only, if we havn't developed new resources.


back to watching american chopper. It's on the discovery channel, so im educating myself.

 

[captaininsano]

This is awesome, we need to use our own resources and grow our balls back in this country. The democrats and liberals have tried their best to cut the balls of our country and now look at us. Steel prices are ridiculous because fuel it through the roof. Drill our own oil! Cut our trees and use wisely what we need. If an owl or two gets displaced well that is sad and the liberals will have a march or something in SF blocking all the poor people trying to go home at 5pm on a Friday. Bush rocks, so does Arnold.

Democrats quite whining!