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Newbie swapping 350s, need tips, advice, warnings!

B

bobby dee

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Hi folks,
For the first time in my tinkering career, I am going to attempt to swap engines in my truck.

Here are some details...
  • I have an old (and somewhat running) 350 in it now, and a rebuilt 350 going in.
  • Old 350 is from 1975, rebuild is from 1972 (as confirmed by engine block I.D.s)
  • 4 speed tranny
  • Power steering
  • 3/4 Ton Long Bed
  • A/C free
I have on the rebuild...
  • New valve covers and gaskets
  • New oil pan and gaskets
  • New HEI distributor
  • New Fuel and Water pumps
  • New Clutch (not actually in yet)
  • Misc little new parts
Old parts going back on...
  • Edelbrock Carb
  • Most hoses and lines
I am looking for advice from experts (Better to learn from somebody else's mistakes, I alway say!!)
I am borrowing a shop, that will be empty for 3 or 4 days to do the work in.
I plan on pulling the engine first, then the tranny, and putting them back in as one assembly.
I will be working from Haynes and other manuals and Youtube...

Let the adventure begin.

k2d3qx.jpg

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My best suggestion is to take the time to remove the entire front clip. That way not only do you not have to maneuver the engine into a tight spot (don’t know if that shop has a hoist) but you don’t have to kill yourself leaning over the fenders. You can also pull the engine/tranny out as a unit. In the long run you’ll save time and your back.
 
rampage said:
My best suggestion is to take the time to remove the entire front clip. That way not only do you not have to maneuver the engine into a tight spot (don’t know if that shop has a hoist) but you don’t have to kill yourself leaning over the fenders. You can also pull the engine/tranny out as a unit. In the long run you’ll save time and your back.
Click to expand...
Great advice. If you don't have enough time to pull the front clip, you can remove the hood and front wheels and drop it so the engine/tranny will clear.
 
Green Monster said:
Great advice. If you don't have enough time to pull the front clip, you can remove the hood and front wheels and drop it so the engine/tranny will clear.
Click to expand...
Thats a good Idea... especially with that height. Not crazy about pulling the front clip... (just so much stuff that hasnt moved for 40 years--I will look into it though) but, definitely off with the hood.
 
rampage said:
My best suggestion is to take the time to remove the entire front clip. That way not only do you not have to maneuver the engine into a tight spot (don’t know if that shop has a hoist) but you don’t have to kill yourself leaning over the fenders. You can also pull the engine/tranny out as a unit. In the long run you’ll save time and your back.
Click to expand...
That just makes me nnnneervous... any "how to" references?
I do have a monster hoist in the shop...

but... EVERYTHING has to be out of the shop in 4 days!!
 
Put a jack or stand under the trans to support it when the engine come loose.

Prepare for spills, it will happen.

If it's a 4spd, bolting the assembly back together can be tough. You might buy a couple of 3" long bolts, cut the heads off and use them as long alignment dowels to help line everything up. Don't forget a clutch alignment tool, too.

If it's an automatic, alignment is easy.

Good time for new motor mounts.

Triple check the distributor, many times with a new engine the timing ends up 180* out.
 
Swapped the engine in my K5 a few months back. Manual trans as well.

Core support and front bumper off at a bare minimum. It *is* much easier, and you won't end up with the hoists ram bashing into the core support as you try and maneuver the engine around. The bumper bolts are almost guaranteed to be a PITA, IMO better to unbolt the brackets from the frame instead of the bumper bolts. The bumper bolts are carriage, and if they don't snap, they will bugger up the chrome as they try and twist. At least if the frame bracket bolts snap, they are not a special bolt. (FWIW I was able to find stainless steel carriage bolts that are close enough to chrome that I used them instead)

IMO the core support AND fenders removed make things easier. It's simply about being able to reach everything easier. Can be done without doing so, it just makes things easier, thus faster. Granted, mine has been apart a few times the last 17 years...I lube all the threads with grease when I unbolt stuff, so I don't deal with the frozen fasteners as much when it comes time to disassemble again.

Also found that it's a lot easier to leave the transmission in place (either strap it up, or just a jack to hold it securely, or if poly trans mount, it will stay without any of that) and remove the motor mount pieces either from the truck, or from the block. Otherwise you have to lift the engine up and over them, then down, which causes issues with the trans. It was much easier to slide the engine straight back, align the input shaft with the crank/splines, THEN bolt the motor mounts up, than it has been for me in the past when I left the motor mounts in their respective locations. Once the engine/trans are bolted up, they can be moved around fairly easily to align the bolts for the mounts. You might want to inspect your engine/trans mounts carefully before disassembly, you may need/want to replace them as well. I went poly because it doesn't appear anyone makes a decent rubber mount anymore.

Make sure your distributor is installed properly. Rookie mistake, and an easy one to fix, but another item that's easier to fix on the engine stand than when in the truck, and better to find on the stand than when trying to start it up. Sliding engine straight back without the mounts on also helps prevent distributor to firewall impacts.

This might be controversial, but I'd be inclined to break-in the engine with plain water. If there is any leaking or overheating, you aren't dealing with coolant that costs whatever it does per gallon now, and water dries up easily. Once you get it broken in, and it's obvious there are no leaks, you can drain the water on the ground, then refill with whatever mix of antifreeze/water you intend to run.
 
Swapped the engine in my K5 a few months back. Manual trans as well.

Core support and front bumper off at a bare minimum. It *is* much easier, and you won't end up with the hoists ram bashing into the core support as you try and maneuver the engine around. The bumper bolts are almost guaranteed to be a PITA, IMO better to unbolt the brackets from the frame instead of the bumper bolts. The bumper bolts are carriage, and if they don't snap, they will bugger up the chrome as they try and twist. At least if the frame bracket bolts snap, they are not a special bolt. (FWIW I was able to find stainless steel carriage bolts that are close enough to chrome that I used them instead)

IMO the core support AND fenders removed make things easier. It's simply about being able to reach everything easier. Can be done without doing so, it just makes things easier, thus faster. Granted, mine has been apart a few times the last 17 years...I lube all the threads with grease when I unbolt stuff, so I don't deal with the frozen fasteners as much when it comes time to disassemble again.

Also found that it's a lot easier to leave the transmission in place (either strap it up, or just a jack to hold it securely, or if poly trans mount, it will stay without any of that) and remove the motor mount pieces either from the truck, or from the block. Otherwise you have to lift the engine up and over them, then down, which causes issues with the trans. It was much easier to slide the engine straight back, align the input shaft with the crank/splines, THEN bolt the motor mounts up, than it has been for me in the past when I left the motor mounts in their respective locations. Once the engine/trans are bolted up, they can be moved around fairly easily to align the bolts for the mounts. You might want to inspect your engine/trans mounts carefully before disassembly, you may need/want to replace them as well. I went poly because it doesn't appear anyone makes a decent rubber mount anymore.

Make sure your distributor is installed properly. Rookie mistake, and an easy one to fix, but another item that's easier to fix on the engine stand than when in the truck, and better to find on the stand than when trying to start it up. Sliding engine straight back without the mounts on also helps prevent distributor to firewall impacts.

This might be controversial, but I'd be inclined to break-in the engine with plain water. If there is any leaking or overheating, you aren't dealing with coolant that costs whatever it does per gallon now, and water dries up easily. Once you get it broken in, and it's obvious there are no leaks, you can drain the water on the ground, then refill with whatever mix of antifreeze/water you intend to run.
 
tRustyK5 said:
I strongly advise removing the core support. Start pre-soaking bolts and stuff with a good penetrant. This is how much access removing the core support will give you...
Click to expand...

Can this come off WITH the front clip? Like in 1 piece

I have a hoist, but this is likely to be a one man job for the most part, including the lifting of the front clip (hoist and straps)

Anybody got any resources on tearing off that front clip?
 
I agree with plain water. Make sure there’s no leaks and it runs goods, then drain and refill with coolant.
 
I’ve never pulled the front clip, the idea of lining it all back up is a pita to me. I can see where it would make things easier but I usually remove the hood, inner femderwells and tires.
 
nvrenuf said:
I’ve never pulled the front clip, the idea of lining it all back up is a pita to me. I can see where it would make things easier but I usually remove the hood, inner femderwells and tires.
Click to expand...
Thats the direction I'm leaning at the moment.
 
I see rust on the truck, so removing any of the panels might be difficult, that should be acknowledged. Mine is quite a bit newer and still had a fair bit of corrosion, particularly around the battery area, and that made some of the bolts/metal they pass through fun to deal with.

However, unless I'm the only one that's ever had this problem, the hoist will most likely have just not quite enough reach to get over the core support and center over the engine. So it will be connected to the engine, and they will try to pull each other together as the hoist loads up. That will result in the hoist ram slamming (or sneaking) into the trim, and it will ruin it. Maybe other hoists are different, but mine certainly put a crease in my trim. :( With the manual, I think it's better to just leave it in the truck than to try and pull it with the engine, even moreso if you have to get both of them over the core support.

If doing it by yourself, as one piece the front clip would be a daunting task I agree. Core support at a minimum, and if you are feeling adventurous, take the fender(s) off. The only adjustment in either of them is shims, write it down, tag them, take pictures, whatever...proper shims put back in place and it will all line back up. Only thing I'd be worried about is rust. This really is akin to using the proper tools for a job...it can be done without, but you risk damage, and if you are like me, it won't feel good climbing over the core support 50 times, bending over the fenders trying to reach things, and crawling under the truck to access things that could be accessed if the core support and fender(s) were removed, which just adds time and frustration to the job. I'm not intimately familiar with the engine bay on your body style, but if you have problems with body panels, you can always put a few bolts back in to move it, once the swap is complete. Those can be finished up anywhere, without special tools. Just think about some of the stuff...engine mount bolts. You are either in the engine bay, or under the truck to get to them. Exhaust manifolds to pipe bolts. Bellhousing bolts. Starter wires. Distributor. Realistically with the manual trans, the alignment to the trans/splines is the worst part I believe, with the core support and fenders off, you can get right in there.

I started with the core support in place, but took it off to get the engine back in. I kicked myself for starting with the core support in place.
 
Well, as far as the lift is concerned, I can pull the motor up 10 feet (one reason I am working there)
I am a little bit concerned also about that trans/ spline thing, but I was planning on pulling trans after engine was out.

And, yes there is some rust... I hate rust.
 
If you have something more better than an engine hoist, then just pull the hood and call it good. scribe around the hinge where it mounts to the hood so you can get the hood back on right later.

Engine/trans is sooper dooper easy. Take the inspection cover off under the torque convertor. Rotate the engine until you see one of the bolts through the flex plate into the Tq convertor. Remove it. Rotate engine until the second bolt comes around and remove that one. Same for the third bolt.

Undo bellhousing bolts. This can be sucky, they're hard to get to. That's it. Only manual trans has spline stuff to deal with...

The important thing is to support the trans while you pull the engine. Floor jack and plywood under the pan is good. As soon as the engine is out you can step into the engine bay and pull the torque convertor towards you to remove it. Notice the tabs on the snout...very important. When you re-install the convertor spin it with one hand while gently pushing inwards with the other. You will eventually feel it slide in a 1/2" or so as the tabs seat properly into the front pump. If the convertor doesn't seat properly into the front pump you will kill the pump and convertor. A lot of guys scratch their head when the trans won't mate to the engine fully, then use the bellhousing bolts to pull it together. Don't do this...it's a sure sign the convertor is not properly seated.
 
Great info and thanks, but my truck actually does have a 4 speed manual... any words of wisdom about clutch and splines and all that? (Sounds like you have a boatload of knowledge!)
 
I would not leave the manual trans bolted to the bell housing..you'll have extreme difficulty doing it that way,that SM465 weighs a lot,and the transmission will want to drop and tilt the motor upwards when you lift it out,and getting the transmission splines to mate again with the transfer case will be very difficult also..

Getting the motor lifted high enough for the motor mount brackets on it to clear the mounts is difficult with a manual tranny,as the engine must slide out straight a good distance before it'll clear the main shaft and bell housing..taking those brackets off the engine would make it easier,each has only 3 bolts..and put them on "last" after the engine & tranny are back in place...with an automatic trans this is not a must,as the engine only needs to come forward an inch or two to clear the torque converter..

I'd remove the bell housing bolts,and pull only the engine alone,after supporting the transmission from drooping..granted the bolts may suck to get at,but aren't so bad compared to many other newer vehicles..if you have a body lift,you can reach the upper bell bolts with a super long extension from behind the transfer case..otherwise you'll have to sit on the engine or a plank across the fenders to reach them..

I have taken the nose off a few square bodies alone,using my engine crane--two people are better though,as you can scratch or dent up the fenders or core support trim doing it alone the way I did it--two strong guys can pick the nose up by the fender wells and walk away with it..the lower trim filler panel behind the bumper may have to come off..two more bolts at the rear lower corner of the fenders hold them to the rocker panels,those must come off too..

..I used ratchet straps looped across both fender wells and another from the core support hooked to the crane,so it would lift straight up as possible..you might be able to use the lift to pull the nose up & off..

There is about 10 bolts holding the whole front clip on,two are the frame mounts at the front of the frame near the leaf spring mounts,two more on the inner fenders at the firewall (behind the tires),and you'll have to take off the wiring harness at the firewall that power the headlamps,I'd remove the radiator first to avoid tweaking it too--though removing the nose isn't that easy alone,it does make for much better access and working conditions..you'll get the rest of the job done faster with it out of your way..
 
I missed that you have the 4 speed...my bad.

In that case I start at the back and pull the T-case first, then unbolt the trans from the bellhousing and drop that next, then remove the engine with the bell attached.

For re-assembly it's exactly the reverse. The important thing is clutch and pressure plate installation with an alignment tool. It's basically a plastic copy of an input shaft that lines up and centers the clutch disc while you tighten the bolts on the pressure plate. If you did it right the alignment tool should slide in/out easily with the pressure plate bolted. Next, bolt up the bellhousing. to get the trans bolted to the bell I sourced four 1/2" NC bolts that were about 2" longer than the right bolts for bolting the trans to the bellhousing. I get the trans behind the bell and sort of started into the hole then thread the 'too long' bolts into the bell. I use these as a guide to help keep the trans oriented as best as possible while I try to guide the input through the clutch disc and into the pilot bearing/bushing. This part requires some patience and wiggling/cursing etc...or sometimes it'll slide right in on the first try.

I haven't mentioned it yet, but a decent trans jack, or floor jack with a trans holder bolted to it is a must, especially since you're working alone. Rent one if you need to.
 
You don't HAVE to remove the front clip. Nor do you need to pull the core support. Yes, either way gives better access, but let's face it, these trucks don't have an overcrowded engine compartment to start with. Pull the hood and crawl up there. For cherry picker access, dump the air out of the front tires like others have said.

Unless you are needing to repair or replace the trans, leave it in. Swinging an extra few hundred pounds of iron on the end of the boom adds complexity you don't need to fool with if you are short on time. Support the trans with a floor jack too. The last clutch we had to put on my old 75 was done by yanking the engine instead of dropping the trans and t-case. Simple things to do is use a clutch alignment tool when installing the clutch to the new engine. Duh, right? When putting the engine back in, you might need to rotate the trans input to line up the splines. If you remove the rear driveshaft and put the trans in gear (high gear will keep it 1:1 to work easier) then rotate the rear output slightly to get the input the line up.

If you are unsure of it being done this way by one person. Just watch Larry as he did exactly that when swapping out a 350 for an 8.1. Only help he got was from me taking the hood off and putting it back on.

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