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newer trucks without gas filters

brian wafer

brian wafer

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so whats the ideal behind this! i no its been around for a while crysler,s in early 2000 had no gas filters( but i will never own a dodge product) so didn,t really put any thought in it. anybody know whats the ideal behind this ideal!!! seems changing a gas filter was easy, and they were always dirty. does the aftermarket sell any filtration systems for 2007 too 2013 gm trucks!!! just had too ask:dunno:!!!
 
dyeager535 said:
Interesting comment immediately after the article: http://www.silveradosierra.com/how-...-the-fuel-filter-on-a-chevy-silverado-t4.html

Makes sense to me. Some of the newer vehicles (not sure on trucks) have combined the fuel pressure regulator with the fuel filter too.

Are these "returnless" systems then? If they are, then indeed, they do a LOT less filtering than the older return style systems.
Click to expand...

I know in the 6.0 GM gas stuff they run a "dead head" rail. Meaning that the gas that makes it into the fuel rail never goes anywhere but through the injectors. I think these are a return less system.
 
It is not like there is no fuel filter at all, it is just they are built internal to the fuel module with a lifetime service interval. There have been no negative affects to the fuel system or fuel pump module by moving to a built in fuel filter. The built in fuel filter has nothing to do with the fact the GM fuel systems have been returnless since 2004. There was a Federal Emissions change in 2004 to reduce evaporative emissions by preventing returning warm fuel to the tank where the warm fuel “fumes” could seep out through the vented fuel cap. I actually prefere the return type systems because there is an adjustable fuel regulator built right into the fuel rail. Not so with the 2004 and later returnless systems. That said, returnless or not has nothing to do with the fact the filters are now non-serviceable.

These are GM official description of the fuel filter and fuel system in general from the service manual.


Fuel Filter:

“The fuel filter is contained in the fuel tank fuel pump module assembly inside the fuel tank. The paper filter element of the fuel filter traps particles in the fuel that may damage the fuel injection system. The fuel filter housing is made to withstand maximum fuel system pressure, exposure to fuel additives, and changes in temperature. There is no service interval for fuel filter replacement.”

Fuel System Overview:

“The Fuel System is an electronic returnless on-demand design. A returnless fuel system reduces the internal temperature of the fuel tank by not returning hot fuel from the engine to the fuel tank. Reducing the internal temperature of the fuel tank results in lower evaporative emissions.

An electric turbine style fuel pump attaches to the fuel sender assembly inside the fuel tank. The fuel pump supplies high pressure fuel through the fuel filter and the fuel feed pipe to the fuel injection system. The fuel pump provides fuel at a higher rate of flow than is needed by the fuel injection system. The fuel pump also supplies fuel to a venturi pump located on the bottom of the fuel sender assembly. The function of the venturi pump is to fill the fuel sender assembly reservoir. The fuel pump and sender assembly contains a reverse flow check valve. The check valve maintains fuel pressure in the fuel feed pipe and the fuel rail in order to prevent long cranking times.”
 
Larry said:
The built in fuel filter has nothing to do with the fact the GM fuel systems have been returnless since 2004.
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How so? Are there fuel filters that don't ever need replacement outside of returnless systems?
 
Another excersize in stupidity IMO...every vehicle needs an EXTERNAL fuel filter than can be easily replaced !!..one tank of rank fuel,or water,and your stranded,with a clogged filter,and likely a ruined pump to boot..

This ranks right up there with the stupidity of making transmissions with NO filler tube or dip stick,they must be filled from BELOW,using a suction gun,and a costly "special" fitting,while the vehicle is running UP on a LIFT...and the mechanic gets douched with ATF when its "full"...

Who thinks up this stuff?...:dunno:

Gee,guess which vehicle I'd hate more to have a slight tranny leak in a coolant line with,or get a tank of bad fuel,way up in maine on vacation?...-- my old rotbox that has a tranny with a filler tube ,an external fuel filter (and PUMP!),or the "new improved one" with the "dealer serviceable only" BS...hard guess g-huh?..:rolleyes:

Two more reasons not to own anything "new" IMO..:whistle:...
Even if I were rich and could afford to have new vehicles..I probably wouldn't!..
 
well it makes some sence in a returnless fuel system. but what if you get bad gas or water. i suppose you will have too remove tank too flush ,and replace the filter while its accessible. so will they sell only a filter or a complete pump! so if i get it right you would replace 4 gas filters in 200,000 miles,and probably a fuel pump around 150,000 miles. so on these trucks you will only replace a pomp . but at what price. still seems like a bad ideal!!! how about the newer direct injection 2014 models,are they common rail like a diesel with extreame high pressure. oh well lots off stuff seemed like bad ideals when they came out,but turned out better than we thought!!! can,t stop progress!!!
 
Larry said:
There is no relation between returnless and internal lifetime fuel filters. It just so happened returnless came first at GM.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to find out if there are lifetime fuel filters that aren't internal...if they aren't related to return less, then there could be, right?

I don't have a clue when GM eliminated external fuel filters so no idea where to start looking.
 
We not be able to stop "progress" but we can refuse to purchase vehicles that are not owner friendly and require a dealer to do all the maintenence and repair work needed ...

I think much of this so called "progress" is invented to ensure dealer profits and no owner serviceability more than anything else..
How does being unable to refill a tranny yourself under the hood if it leaks,ensuring destruction,or replace a gas filter yourself ,be deemed "progress"?..:dunno:
 
real easy to add inline filter if you have the plastic fuel lines.

get a pair of ends then cut the line and use the special install tool and after that use the std gm filter from older vehicles with nipple on both ends that clip in to the ends you just installed.

but this is dependent on 2 things .. space for filter away from heat source & plastic lines.

i to as a mechanic in the north east dirty rust belt hate the fact of no filters now. e have dirty tanks and crappy fuel in the winter.

i dont know how many filters i have changed full of JUNK and 90% pluged.

last is what i have found to be in the top 3 of over looked maint items is fuel filter / p/s fluid swap / brake fluid swap .
 
You guys worry about small things sometimes. :rolleyes:

The standards that fuel stations have to meet for fuel storage have improved 10 fold (or more) over the last 20 years or so. That's why most, if not all, old gas stations had their lots dug up to replace tanks. Any new station built had to have the new stuff installed during construction. You don't get the sediment sitting at the bottom of the storage tanks and the moisture buildup like the old ones use to. And I think they are now equipped with their own filtration and water separation systems.

I've been working at a car dealership for a long time now. And this carline has deleted fuel filters on pretty much all their cars starting in 2006ish. I've got customers cars running up into the 2-300,000 mile range on their original in tank fuel pumps with no external (replaceable) filters.

A bad tank of gas being a remote possibility in ultra rural parts of the country, having a serviceable fuel filter isn't gonna change the fact that the tank will need to be emptied and or flushed out. It actually adds one more thing to be replaced.
 
While the possibility of getting "bad gas" is slim,its happened locally more often that most people realize..

I would be more worried about someone dumping somthing in the tank,or using water to "replace" siphoned fuel,theft of gasoline and diesel always spikes during hard times and when fuel prices approach 4 bucks a gallon..

I was pretty disgusted when I watched what a friend had to go thru to add tranny fluid to a BMW and an Isuzu Rodeo the other day,I thought it was a STUPID idea,probably some bean counter or "engineer" designed to sell more trannies and save a few pennies...and the Beamer had to have "special" ATF that cost 20 bucks a quart,that is available only at dealers!--the closest one to here is 40+ miles away too..

This is another disturbing trend--"dealer only fluids"...many GM's and other vehicles now require special fluids for manual and automatic trannies,power steering,etc,and if you substitute anything else you risk having the synchro's fail,the seals leaking,etc..what if your in a rural area and all you can get is the "usual" gear oils or ATF like Dextron??...whats next,dealer only motor oil??..:rolleyes:...(maybe I should stop typing and giving them more ideas!)..:doah:
 
I've not changed the filter in my car (2004, bought it new, now 108K) and have no intention of doing so. It's one of the 50K "Replace" items on the service schedule though.

My truck is the same one since 2003 or so, no intention of changing it either.

In our trucks, the pre-filter in the tank probably handles the majority of the junk that gets in the tank anyway. Perhaps in REALLY rural areas fuel quality is an issue, but I've emptied tanks from 1967, (not to mention my fair share of '73-87(91) truck tanks, and they had almost no junk in them.

I'm not really concerned about it, I just don't understand why the service interval would have changed from whatever it was, to never, if there wasn't a major advancement in filtering technology or design that meant the filter never disintegrated, or didn't see as much use, etc. Or, fuel filter changes all along were scams. Pressure drop across the filter would be the only way to really verify if it's a problem or not, and who tests that?
 
Since I started getting into Racing and the Ultra 4 world a few years ago I have gone through a massive mind shift about "standards" that we as older truck people are used to.

Oil change intervals, I'm now pushing 12,000 mile oil changes on my DD, towrig Duramax. Oil sampling shows that I can do that.
Fuel filters, we run a 100 micron pre pump filter, with external Bosch 044 pump and a 10 micron post pump filter. We clean the 100 micron every race and only change the 10 micron once a year. Now that's usually only about 3,000 miles but we don't have the cleanest fuel stops either. There's always sand, dust and other crap that we know get's in the tank due to the environment.

In taking these and many other things I've seen I don't think that Gm or any other manufacturer is ruining anything, making anything less good etc. They are improving them.

We no longer worry about rust in a tank due tot he fact that new tanks are plastic, storage tanks are going plastic and stations are filtering their fuel better at the pump.

I would say expand your horizons and understand that technology is out there making it so.
 
dyeager535 said:
I'm trying to find out if there are lifetime fuel filters that aren't internal...if they aren't related to return less, then there could be, right?

I don't have a clue when GM eliminated external fuel filters so no idea where to start looking.
Click to expand...

I am not aware of any lifetime fuel filters on GM vehicles with return type fuel systems however I believe some oddball cars like Volvo or SAAB did, although I am not sure if they were truly returnless or not. Returnless really didn’t become an industry norm until 2004 due to the EVAP emissions changes.

I also see where and why people want to make the connection between returnless and lifetime filters as they did come on the scene at the same time. Naturally people want to think the less fuel being moved around because of the returnless system requires a lesser fuel filter. That is not the case, fuel is fuel! If there is contamination in it, the contamination will be there regardless if is repeatedly returned through the system or not.

As I mentioned above, and could be wrong, but I don’t see that as the actual reason for going to a lifetime filter. I see it as more of cost engineering. When you look at this from a manufacturing/engineering stand point, GM had to move to a different fuel module anyway when they went returnless for EPA EVAP compliance. Since they were working with Delphi to reingeer the module it was probably a perfect time to exercise cost engineering by going to a lifetime filter.

As you may know I work for a major class 5 through 8 truck manufacturer where we use GM Powertrain to power our small stripped chassis vehicles that become RV’s and commercial step vans like UPS trucks. Delphi is a major supplier of fuel modules to GM, Chrysler, my company and many others. I recall way back in 2000-2001 when I still lived in Michigan Delphi approached us with a lower cost fuel module with a built in lifetime fuel filter. Our engineering chose not to make the change to the lesser cost fuel module because the changes to the fuel system by a different fuel module and new lines to fill the void of the serviceable filter would have required recertification of our entire fuel system, which gets very expensive and often requires crash testing. Crash testing a $150,000 motorhome gets very expensive. My point is returnless wasn’t around back in 2000-2001 but yet Delphi offer it as a production intent fuel module. GM didn’t move to it until 2004 (most likely because they had to recertify the fuel system anyway because of the returnless change and found it an opportune time to go to the lifetime filter). My company still has not moved to the filterless to this day. Our returnless GM Powertrain engines still have serviceable fuel filters on the frame but our competitor (Freightliner...yes, Freightliner uses GM gas engines) does use a lifetime filter in their fuel module. I have not heard of any adverse effects of the lifetime filters on the Freightshakers over ours by the fleet account customer that has tens of thousands of these vehicles.


496truck said:
You guys worry about small things sometimes. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yes, exactly :waytogo: I am more pissed off about the absence of an adjustable regulator on the returnless systems that used to be on all return type systems :mad:
 
Interesting stuff, thanks! It would be interesting to know if fuel delivery has cleaned up that much in the past 50+ years. I expect that has to be part of it...no one expects to get a tank full of crud from Chevron. When a batch of bad gas gets out, it makes national news.
 
Larry said:
I am not aware of any lifetime fuel filters on GM vehicles with return type fuel systems however I believe some oddball cars like Volvo or SAAB did, although I am not sure if they were truly returnless or not. Returnless really didn’t become an industry norm until 2004 due to the EVAP emissions changes.
Click to expand...

No lifetime filters from Volvo. Early cars we replaced at 60k, later cars we replaced at 105k. And Volvo has been using different types of returnless systems since the mid 90s with replaceable filters in everything till they started phasing them out in 04.
 
My Ford had the original fuel filter still on it from 1995,only reason I decided to have it changed was it was getting so rusted I feared it would start squirting gas out of it somwhere far away..:rolleyes:..its a big can filter though,it'll hold half a pound of dirt before it'd clog..but when I blew thru it after taking it off,it was pretty restricted compared to the new one,and nasty looking brown stuff came out of it..

Maybe where I live still has a lot of older tanks at gas stations ,or people contaminate the gas themselves somehow,I've helped my friend drop a lot of gas tanks to do fuel pumps and almost every one has at least some water floating around in the bottom of the tank,or some crud like leaves and silty red rust in them..many cars he works on never had a new filter till he changes them,and many that had dead electric fuel pumps also had a nearly plugged gas filter that likely hastened the pumps failure..

I'm not saying its not possible to go over 100K on the same filter,my car had 141K on it ,and the one on my moms 93 Caravan is still original at 93K too...but its pure luck neither one ever got a tank of crappy gas..
Stil,I say its not :progress" to hide the filter inside the tank--just like the fuel pump,which is also dumb in my opinion..yes,they might last longer being submerged,but the amount of labor to replace one is a waste of effort,when it could be so much easier--.200+ bucks for the pump and that much more if the sending unit is all rotted is not exactly cheap,compared to a mechanical pump on an engine or an externally mounted electric one..
 
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