Not enough reach with engine hoist

[dyeager535]

Haven't tried to use this hoist on the K5 before, but now that I'm stuck with an immovable truck in the way of moving anything around, I find out this hoist is about a foot too short. It's a 1 ton model my Dad got from Harbor Freight quite awhile back, apparently the two ton version (which looks identical online FWIW) has about another foot of reach.

With the manual trans, I can see trying to use the crane as-is as an exercise in tool throwing futility. I don't have a removable floor pan, so the engine will need to go almost straight down on the motor mounts to line up, and there is no way to do that with this hoist.

I COULD pull off the bumper and core support, but I was really hoping not to. The entire problem is the ram hitting the front of the truck, so unless I somehow extend the boom, which I consider a bad idea, removing the core support and bumper are the only other ideas I can come up with. And I always cringe thinking about removing those dang bumper bolts. Not that the core support mounts are fun either.

Considered removing the tires and dropping it down on the floor with the floor jack, but I don't think even that would give me the reach I need.

Someone always has crazy tricks for situations like this, figure I'd ask before resigning myself to more disassembly.

 

[paratrooper307]

Those 1 ton hoists really only have the size and reach for cars. If you don't want to disassemble and you don't want to buy the better hoist, you can always rent one. I got one with a 3 ton capacity from Sunbeam, and it was less than 40 bucks to rent it for the weekend. It had plenty of reach.

 

[Babaganoosh]

When I did mine, I had to swing it over the core support and fender. Was a two man job, then once it was over I had to then swing the cherry picker over to the front. This was with the axle on jack stand and as low as possible.

 

[Bent77]

I did it the hillbilly way and cut the core. That was with the D60 laying on the concrete.

Probably not your best option

 

[Bent77]

I did it the hillbilly way and cut the core. That was with the D60 laying on the concrete.

Probably not your best option

 

[dyeager535]

Those 1 ton hoists really only have the size and reach for cars. If you don't want to disassemble and you don't want to buy the better hoist, you can always rent one. I got one with a 3 ton capacity from Sunbeam, and it was less than 40 bucks to rent it for the weekend. It had plenty of reach.

Yeah, suppose I could disassemble the larger style and get it to the front of the truck.

I'm not completely averse to just taking the core support off, I never spent the time to line it all up pretty anyway, was just hoping there was some trick I didn't know about that would have made this go quicker. But whether I go rent another hoist, or disassemble the front end, it's just going to add time to the swap, dangit.

 

[brans87]

Got one of these?

 

[dyeager535]

View attachment 217570 Got one of these?

Don't have one of those.

Ended up yanking the core support and bumper. Plenty of room. Generated extra work of course, two of the weld-nuts broke, one fender to core support, one inner fender to core support.

Now thinking it would be a good idea to remove the motor mounts, and be able to slide the engine straight back to better align with the trans on install, instead of trying to fight the poly motor/trans mounts getting the motor mount "hats" (the pieces bolted to the block) over the motor mounts, while simultaneously trying to line up the input shaft/clutch.

 

[toomany]

Now thinking it would be a good idea to remove the motor mounts, and be able to slide the engine straight back to better align with the trans on install, instead of trying to fight the poly motor/trans mounts getting the motor mount "hats" (the pieces bolted to the block) over the motor mounts, while simultaneously trying to line up the input shaft/clutch.

On these trucks, I always remove the mount from the crossmember when droping an engine in. Makes it so much easier to line the transmission up.

Once the two are bolted together, lift the engine back up and slip the mount into the "hat". Lower it down until you can line up the 3 holes on each side. When all 6 bolts are in, I lower it down all the way and tighten everything up.

The bolts on the mounts aren't the easiest to get to with the engine in place, but they aren't impossible either.

 

[diesel4me]

I've helped do a few engine swaps with engine cranes that were too short,either home made or lower tonnage store bought ones..it does suck royally..

We were able to pull and install an engine with one by going at it from the side of the vehicle,we had to take the front tire off the side the crane was on so the legs could straddle the axle--then lift the engine straight up (we had left the transmission in place,just unbolted the bell housing bolts)..

Then we had to pump the jack up as far as it'd go,drag the crane back while I guided the engine,the crane wouldn't lift high enough to clear the fender,so we had to let the engine down some,then lift up the rear of the crane and swing it so it was diagonal to the nose of the truck--then we were barely able to sneak the engine over the radiator support and the front corner of the fender..

The second time we encountered the too short crane situation a friend had the brainstorm to take the mast off the crane and reverse it ,so it pointed away from the legs,then we out it in the bed of his flatbed truck,and chained the legs down to the bed,then backed the truck up to the truck that needed the engine pulled..that worked a hell of a lot better,but it was a bit cumbersome with the trucks butted nose to rear bumper to work around..

Its always best to have the right tools,it makes things easier,with less risk of injury..its difficult enough WITH the right tools...

I have always bolted the engine brackets to the block and lowered the engine over the clam shells,in most cases it only took some care to align things,then shove the engine with a long 2x4 to get the brackets over the clam shells..
It is a toss up to me whether installing the tranny & engine as a unit is easier,in a way I think that way beats fighting to get at the bellhousing bolts,but I have never done a 4x4 that way--most of my trucks had removeable tunnel humps or a body lift,so the bell bolts were not that bad to get at..so I left the tranny in the truck,instead of having to R&R the transfer case and pulling the tranny out attached to the engine..

I think the bolts holding the clam shells to the crossmember are among the worst to access on the whole truck,even though they look easy to see and get at..I know 2wd ones suck worse than 4x4's,you have to go through a hole in the crossmember to get at those bolts..

 

[1-ton]

I removed the radiator support out of mine to get the engine and trans out together, I had to remove the radiator support on my truck because it is lifted up so high that no engine hoist would ever get it up and over the radiator support. The picture I have posted is an old one from a several months ago. The engine/transmission is currently back in the truck. With the radiator support out of it the engine and trans went back in real easy. I will get an updated picture with the engine back in at some time.

 

[diesel4me]

The last time I pulled a engine out of a square body was probably 10 years ago already...I had a '77 GMC K2500 that was getting real rusty everywhere,the frame had shed many layers and was getting too thin to justify any further "restoration",the cab was patched everywhere too,when the TH350 decided to lose reverse, I mad the sad choice to part it out and scrap it..

I took the nose right off it alone,using the engine crane and ratchet straps to lift it off and roll it aside...it was not as bad as I'd thought it would be,but I used the torches and saws-all to remove the radiator support bolts since it wasn't going to be put back together again,that saved a lot of effort and time..
Pulling the 400 SB out of it took like 10 minutes with the nose off it,child's play, compared to doing it with the nose on it..but taking a nose off with two or more people and no crane is easier IMO..I hated doing it alone,and would not have,if the nose wasn't going to scrap,if I had to re-use it I wouldn't have tried using the crane..

(I had yanked an ailing 454 out to put the 400 SB in it when I got it,and it was scary,the crane had to go up all the way ,and I had to lift the engine by hand to clear the oil pan on the support--got very tippy and the rear wheels came off the ground on the crane..)

My friend has resorted to using his lift to pull engines at times on trucks too tall to use the crane on,even if you take the tires off..using one of those engine tilter things on a chain hooked to a lift arm..

The thing that sucks about that is the car cant be pulled all the way into the shop,the engine has to be under the lift arms--in cold weather he has to leave the overhead door open..also it never fails you need to lift the car up "one more time" to dissconnect or unbolt something,its a pain unhooking everything and having to put the lift arms under the vehicle and raise it up again..then push the vehicle outside,and back in later to install the "new" engine..but its safer than having an engine crane maxed out that wants to topple over..

 

[1-ton]

I've helped do a few engine swaps with engine cranes that were too short,either home made or lower tonnage store bought ones..it does suck royally..

We were able to pull and install an engine with one by going at it from the side of the vehicle,we had to take the front tire off the side the crane was on so the legs could straddle the axle--then lift the engine straight up (we had left the transmission in place,just unbolted the bell housing bolts)..

Then we had to pump the jack up as far as it'd go,drag the crane back while I guided the engine,the crane wouldn't lift high enough to clear the fender,so we had to let the engine down some,then lift up the rear of the crane and swing it so it was diagonal to the nose of the truck--then we were barely able to sneak the engine over the radiator support and the front corner of the fender..

The second time we encountered the too short crane situation a friend had the brainstorm to take the mast off the crane and reverse it ,so it pointed away from the legs,then we out it in the bed of his flatbed truck,and chained the legs down to the bed,then backed the truck up to the truck that needed the engine pulled..that worked a hell of a lot better,but it was a bit cumbersome with the trucks butted nose to rear bumper to work around..

Its always best to have the right tools,it makes things easier,with less risk of injury..its difficult enough WITH the right tools...

I have always bolted the engine brackets to the block and lowered the engine over the clam shells,in most cases it only took some care to align things,then shove the engine with a long 2x4 to get the brackets over the clam shells..
It is a toss up to me whether installing the tranny & engine as a unit is easier,in a way I think that way beats fighting to get at the bellhousing bolts,but I have never done a 4x4 that way--most of my trucks had removeable tunnel humps or a body lift,so the bell bolts were not that bad to get at..so I left the tranny in the truck,instead of having to R&R the transfer case and pulling the tranny out attached to the engine..

I think the bolts holding the clam shells to the crossmember are among the worst to access on the whole truck,even though they look easy to see and get at..I know 2wd ones suck worse than 4x4's,you have to go through a hole in the crossmember to get at those bolts..

Your step by step description is right on the money. That is exactly how my engine went back in. I dropped it in with the tranny and engine bolted together, and the trans dip stick tube in it as well. I had a transmission jack under the truck too, and put it under the trans at the appropriate time to level everything out. I left the engine cross member mount bolts loose, then lowered the engine onto the engine mounts, and slip the long bolts into them (but left them loose). Then I bolted the trans to its mount, in order to properly locate the drive train in my truck, and then tighten the engine cross member bolts. The last thing was to tighten the engine mount long bolts.

 

[dyeager535]

I think I'm going to try and remove the motor mounts and slide them in under the "hats" on install. To get the engine out it looks like I can remove the hats from the engine, and will then be able to pull the engine straight forward.

I'm guessing the manual trans adds some complexity vs. an auto, with the input shaft being a bit longer, and having to align the splines, so the angles have to be just right. Not to mention the non-removable trans tunnel means the trans can only go up a small amount before it hits the body.

Having pulled the trans out a couple of times, it too is a bear due to the fixed trans tunnel, and I doubt pulling the trans with the motor would make my life much easier.

When I put the poly motor mounts in (engine already in) I remember having to really fight the setup to get them in. I'll see, but I'm guessing this is going to force me to deal with the poly mounts again, as the engine mount bolts to frame are what keeps the motor mounts together when you install the poly pucks.

 

[dyeager535]

Got it out, wished I would have just removed the core support and bumper off the bat. I mean I wished I had a hoist with proper reach.

Honestly though, as much fighting as it took to separate the engine from the trans, having the core support removed was probably the right choice. It was a lot easier to get in there and see the angle of the two components and unbolt the motor mounts.

Interestingly, it looks like the poly mounts have "settled" after years of use, or the metal has conformed to them. When I put them in, the pucks were too thick to clamp the clamshells together, and made for a nightmare getting them in the truck. After being in there for these years, the clamshells now almost touch each other with no bolts holding them together. I'm *hoping* install goes easy.

Took the time to finally get rid of the drivers side head temperature gauge sending unit and CTS, instead going with the combination three wire CTS/sender GM used in some of the 90's vehicles. Now all three wires go to the same sized component at the front of the intake, tucked up under the TPI runners, nowhere near the exhaust, no weird nail head connector. It's the little things.

 

[rpcraft]

I realized early on the doghouse was going to have to come off and it's a good thing I did too because I found more rust than I expected was there. Think about that if you may.

 

[4xcrazy]

I removed the front wheels n tires and set the front down on a couple of 2x4s, lowered the front end down low enough to get it up over the core support, hood was removed as well, obviously.

 

[dyeager535]

I realized early on the doghouse was going to have to come off and it's a good thing I did too because I found more rust than I expected was there. Think about that if you may.

Had two thoughts about the hood...remove the springs and leave it attached to the hinges, and just open it as far as it would go, and strap it out of the way. I'm guessing the hinges have enough movement to clear any engine pull as long as you can keep it out of the way. If you wanted to not mess with alignment afterwards, that would keep from having to deal with it.

As to pulling the front clip, I can't imagine how easy the removal/install would have been. If you pulled the wheels and put the front on jackstands, you'd really have unfettered access to everything.

With just the core support out, the access is a LOT easier to everything. Reassembly is tough with TPI because all the bolts are Torx and recessed, and the distributor is pretty well buried. With the core support out, it's a lot easier to reach in and access everything, so I'm glad it's out of the way.

Got the engine back in and bolted to the transmission. For doing it myself, it went very smoothly compared to other times I've done it with the manual transmission. Left the motor mounts/"hats" completely off, didn't touch the trans mount at all. Engine went generally straight back, got a couple bolts started in the block from bellhousing, that allowed the hoist to be used to remove the slight angle between the two, then installed all the rest of the bolts. Lifted the entire assembly as far as it would go, bolted the hats back on the block, slid the mounts under, installed the mount to hat bolt, then dropped the engine down, got passenger side mount bolted loosely to the frame, then used a large punch as leverage to force the drivers side mount bolts close to alignment, and dropped the bolts in. Would have been even easier with rubber mounts, the poly still doesn't yield much to force.

 

[rampage]

I think it'd be easier to remove the front most bolt for the hinge where it bolts to the fender than it would be to fight those springs.

 

[FOR MUD]

Two words... Gantry Crane.

They take up a bunch of room, but they sure make life easy.