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NP205 to NV4500 Questions

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pseudomike

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Guys:

I have a NP205 round adapter (orig behind TH400) out of my 87 K3500.
I also have a NV4500 out of a 2000 K3500.

I would like to mate the two. I am told option 1 is to notch the NV4500 tail housing, install a short input and be done with it. I guess I would have to build a shift bracket for this route.

Option 2 is to keep the long input and buy the advance adapters 2" spacer and shifter bracket for $150. This options seems easier but I have heard mixed results on the quality of the kit. Anyone tried this kit?

Does anyone have pics of option #1? What did you do for a bracket? Seems to me I could almost swap a long input for a short and fabricate the rest for near nothing.
 
i have the older style 93ish 4500 so im not sure if they are different
its got the advance adapters kit. seems pretty well built
101_0240.jpg
 
I think the case is nearly identical to mine. Have you tried the factory shifter or are you going with some cable setup? I'm told the shifter is the main issue with the AA kit. Seems that they fail to send along correct linkages and so on.

Looks sweet though.
 
yah its linkage... i found the bracket to be kinda cheesy (one that connects to the top cover of the trans for the tcase shifter) so i added an additional bracket to make it a little more ridgid... works awesome now
101_0262-1.jpg

101_0276.jpg
 
Well, decided to go the AA route and it showed up today. I think the quality is halfway decent for the money but you basically get no directions. From what I can tell so far

1.) You still need to mill the tailshaft housing (I knew this part ~ 3/8").

2.) The threads for the shift bolt are smaller than mine and I'm not sure there is enough material to drill and tap larger so I might have to weld it up, grind, and move the hole up.

3.) No linkages come with this thing and the factory s-linkage will not work. I'm going to run heim joints instead...it would be nice if they told you about this ahead of time.

4.) I'm going to make up a simple brace as well because I'm skeptical of the strength of this bracket.

Overall, there are more than a few hours of fab even after spending $175 to the door. I think it will work well but I thought I would post my findings because I had a hard time locating the info myself. I still think it is a better setup than slapping in a short input and cutting the web out of the tailhousing. I just don't like removing that much material...especially when you consider that the NP205 is just hanging off the back of that housing virtually unsupported! Yikes! Don't forget the support rod/frame brace....
 
oooooooo, 1 day i shall find a 4500 to take the place of my 465.....after looking at the pics and reading ''the 205 just hangs off the rear of the trans'', does this mean the 205 bolts right up to the 4500 w/o the adapter like other t-cases do? or is the AA kit have a really thin adater between the 2, b/c it is mounted right up on the trans, from what i see?

edit: ok, now i see the 1 1/2-2'' darker grey piece between trans & t-case, i assume that is the adapter.

1 quick question, what should I look for to find a 4500? what did they come in? I've called all my local salvage yards and most of the 1's within a 2hr radius of me, that i know of. all of them act like I'm asking for ufo parts, they haven't a clue! i tell them a ''newer model 5 speed out of a 4x4...i think dodge used them & heavier duty chevy's'', their reply...''never seen 1, whats your name & #, i'll call you if i ever get 1.''

they never call, it would be so much easier if i could call them and say i need a 5-speed maual 4x4 trans,..out of a..WHAT DO I TELL THEM THEY CAME IN?
 
If you are going to run a Chevy t-case you are best off running a GM version of the NV4500 though they did come behind the Dodges too. There are basically two flavors of the GM '96 down, and '96 up. '96 up has the "square" top shifter and a numerically lower 1st gear (5.34:1 or something). The '96 down has the round top shifter like the one above and has a numerically higher 1st gear (6.34:1 or something). Crawlers usually prefer the '96 down for the lower first gear.

The Chevy uses a 32 spline output like the TH400 or 4L80E. Dodge has a different # of spline but I'm told you can mate it somehow to one of the older dodge NP205 passenger drop cases. Problem is neither Chevy or Dodge used the NV4500 with a passenger drop case. You could mate a pass drop Chevy NP241 to a Chevy NV4500 and be on your way (might need the NV4500 to NP241 adapter??). Other option is to mate a NP205. It is cheaper if you mate a "round style" NP205 to the NV4500 because then all you need is either a short input or the $150 AA kit. Without the AA kit you have to take a ton of material off the tail housing to clearance the shift rail. You can do a figure 8 205 but it's like a $500-700 kit from AA.

With either, the NV4500 has an integral mount and this renders the NP205 just hanging off the back. Some guys run cast iron tail housings on the NV4500 to alleviate this problem....I'd personally rather break the tail housing than the NV4500 case. I would strongly recommend running one of the GM t-case torque bars or frame style. Definitely make sure you use same material (rubber or poly in all mounts).

For mine, I'm running it behind a Cummins so I swapped the NV4500 clutch setup, bell housing, and front input (it's larger) from a Dodge NV4500. You can only do this with the '96 up GM NV4500 because of the difference in 1st gear. I have the round NP205 like the pics above. I also have the "diesel" GM NV4500 which has harmonic balancers in it to keep 5th gear from dropping out. You should probably read up on that before deciding to swap.

Mike
 
alright, thanks for the info....i happen to have 2-91 np241 passenger drops, but i like the gear drive over the chain, i busted a chain case all the way around it, b/c the chain stretched and started slapping the case...if 241 is kept in good condition i guess it would be on par w/other chain cases...i just prefer the gear drives...i'm currently hunting for a divorced pass drop 205 for a special project.
 
I hate bringing old threads back to life but I just picked up a 93 NV4500 4X4 (6.31 granny and 32 spline out) and wanted to share my plan with the group.
The problem I had was that the overall length with any AA kit was still over 1.5" longer than the original 465/205. This potentially meant new drive shafts, cross member location, and steeper drive shaft angle in the rear.
I'm hoping that the solution is to mate it directly to an NP 205 via a LoMax 205 kit.
http://www.jbconversions.com/pages/products/lomax205/index.html

The LoMax is kinda pricey but it has the round input that allows the NV4500 to bolt directly to it. It has the figure8 SM465 flange as well. This makes the overall length of the bell housing, transmission, and transfer case within something like 1/4 inch of the current 465/205 setup (from what I calculated). It also has the added advantage of the 3:1 extra low gear that is also thicker. I even think that the original cross member is pretty close to the same location and may be able to be re-used (with slight mods).

For a bell housing I was thinking of modifying the original one that came with the NV4500 or seeing if the 465 one fits. The early 4500 trans bolt pattern is different than the later ones and is rumored to bolt to a regular GM bell housing.

The NV4500 floor shifter is 5 or so inches back from where the 465 is located. Since I have a 4" body lift, I may be able to fab a linkage that relocates the 4500 shifter to the 465 hole in the floor (I don't want to replace my carpet because of another hole, or remove the console.

If anyone is interested, I'll post more after I take some measurements.
 
I've also heard of people modifying a 465 bellhousing to fit the 4500 but when I looked at doing it, the labor to bore the input shaft hole and drill a new pattern looked like it would cost more than a new bellhousing from AA so i just used a new one. It certainly would have eliminated some of my clutch fork problems.

I also would not just hang a steel 205 off the back using only the aluminum tailhousing to hold it. Those trans were only made to hold up much lighter aluminum transfer cases.
 
bp71k5 said:
I've also heard of people modifying a 465 bellhousing to fit the 4500 but when I looked at doing it, the labor to bore the input shaft hole and drill a new pattern looked like it would cost more than a new bellhousing from AA so i just used a new one. It certainly would have eliminated some of my clutch fork problems.

I also would not just hang a steel 205 off the back using only the aluminum tailhousing to hold it. Those trans were only made to hold up much lighter aluminum transfer cases.
Click to expand...

I understand what you mean, Sometimes it's cheaper over the long run to spend a little up front to get the parts that fit.

As I'm sure you're already aware, the 205 comes with the additional torque bracket that will give some more support. The LoMax also comes with a few more mounting flanges. The plan was to fabricate additional mounts for these. Unfortunately this means more brackets and junk down there which will get in the way of exhaust, wiring, cables, etc. The other thing I'm uncomfortable with is having to notch the tail housing to clear the transfer case shift rail, not to mention t-case shifter brackets, etc.

I read somewhere that there were 1 tons made with an NV4500/205 combo but they are rare. It would be interesting to see what these looked like from the factory.
 
I'm surprised the 2" adaptor from AA doesn't come with some mounting holes\bosses in it, or does it?
 
The cross member mount is cast in the tail section of the transmission.
Click to expand...

Yes, but I think it's only designed to support the weight of a much lighter transfer case bolted onto the output flange. What's a 241 weigh... 85 lbs?

Technically, mine is much heavier since I have two transfer cases hanging back there (200+ lbs), but even 140 lbs (np205) and 10lbs (adaptor) is a lot more weight hanging off the cast aluminum output flange of the nv4500 output housing. I'm thinking a more secure location to help support the extra weight would be under the transfer case or the 2" adaptor (assuming it's steel). I may be overly concerned though.
 
I did some quick measurements this morning measuring from the front of the bell housing to the front of the transfer case for both my old SM465 setup and the NV4500. This would include the bell housing, sm465, 205 adapter vs the bell housing, NV4500 main case, tail housing.

NV4500 26.5"
SM465 25.5"

I was hoping that they would be closer and based on the countless websites I've visited looking for dimensions of the components (bell housing, main case, transmission, adapters, tail housing) and adding them together, it appeared that they would be a lot closer.
It never seems to be that easy but I suppose 1 inch isn't all that bad either.
 
pseudomike said:
Well, decided to go the AA route and it showed up today. I think the quality is halfway decent for the money but you basically get no directions. From what I can tell so far

1.) You still need to mill the tailshaft housing (I knew this part ~ 3/8").

2.) The threads for the shift bolt are smaller than mine and I'm not sure there is enough material to drill and tap larger so I might have to weld it up, grind, and move the hole up.

3.) No linkages come with this thing and the factory s-linkage will not work. I'm going to run heim joints instead...it would be nice if they told you about this ahead of time.

4.) I'm going to make up a simple brace as well because I'm skeptical of the strength of this bracket.

Overall, there are more than a few hours of fab even after spending $175 to the door. I think it will work well but I thought I would post my findings because I had a hard time locating the info myself. I still think it is a better setup than slapping in a short input and cutting the web out of the tailhousing. I just don't like removing that much material...especially when you consider that the NP205 is just hanging off the back of that housing virtually unsupported! Yikes! Don't forget the support rod/frame brace....
Click to expand...
hi, i got the sm465 and a 205 behind a 350 small block. i have an old 12v out of a bus that i want to put into my 83 1-ton. i have been looking for an nv4500 to mate to my 205. i am not worried about mating it to the cummins because i will buy on from a cummins or the 96+ GM trans. the only thing i am worried about is mating the nv4500 to my 205. the only kit i found on AA is like 650 bucks. it is not the same one you used. do you have the part number from it?
 
The kit I believe you are refering to ($650ish) is for adapting a figure 8 pattern 205 (also called the racetrack pattern) to a nv4500. For whatever reason AA does not list the other adapter, for a round pattern 205, on their site.
 
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