NP205 to NV4500 Questions

[Lawrence0485]

If you are going to run a Chevy t-case you are best off running a GM version of the NV4500 though they did come behind the Dodges too. There are basically two flavors of the GM '96 down, and '96 up. '96 up has the "square" top shifter and a numerically lower 1st gear (5.34:1 or something). The '96 down has the round top shifter like the one above and has a numerically higher 1st gear (6.34:1 or something). Crawlers usually prefer the '96 down for the lower first gear.

The Chevy uses a 32 spline output like the TH400 or 4L80E. Dodge has a different # of spline but I'm told you can mate it somehow to one of the older dodge NP205 passenger drop cases. Problem is neither Chevy or Dodge used the NV4500 with a passenger drop case. You could mate a pass drop Chevy NP241 to a Chevy NV4500 and be on your way (might need the NV4500 to NP241 adapter??). Other option is to mate a NP205. It is cheaper if you mate a "round style" NP205 to the NV4500 because then all you need is either a short input or the $150 AA kit. Without the AA kit you have to take a ton of material off the tail housing to clearance the shift rail. You can do a figure 8 205 but it's like a $500-700 kit from AA.

With either, the NV4500 has an integral mount and this renders the NP205 just hanging off the back. Some guys run cast iron tail housings on the NV4500 to alleviate this problem....I'd personally rather break the tail housing than the NV4500 case. I would strongly recommend running one of the GM t-case torque bars or frame style. Definitely make sure you use same material (rubber or poly in all mounts).

For mine, I'm running it behind a Cummins so I swapped the NV4500 clutch setup, bell housing, and front input (it's larger) from a Dodge NV4500. You can only do this with the '96 up GM NV4500 because of the difference in 1st gear. I have the round NP205 like the pics above. I also have the "diesel" GM NV4500 which has harmonic balancers in it to keep 5th gear from dropping out. You should probably read up on that before deciding to swap.

Mike

Bringing this one back from the dead lol..

So I'm thinking of doing the 12v swap. I've got an 86' k10 with the sm465/np205 and the 3.42 gears in the axles.

Since the 465 is gonna be geared too low and only has 3 usable gears, I'm gonna switch out to the nv4500. Now i don't know which np205 I have other than its the original to the truck. But it sounds like it will pretty much bolt up with the aa adapter if its the round style 205? Now can you tell me if my 205 in my '86 k10 is the round one?

I know I want the 96' down nv4500 for the lower 1st gear.

Also were can I find a list of trucks that came with the nv4500 diesal version?

It looks like with nv4500/np205/3.42/33" tires I can run [email protected] a little low but that should be right up in the max tq area right?

 

[sweetk30]

465 with 205 in your 86 if all original will be round pattern 6 bolt style with 32 spline input. .

 

[Lawrence0485]

Sweet thx. Maybe I can get by with the 200 dollar adapter..

 

[Lawrence0485]

So this is all I would need to mate the gm np205 to a gm nv4500?? If so that's Freekin awesome.

 

[dyeager535]

If you have a 205 in a K10, it's not original.

Just crawl under it and look before getting excited. The round pattern 205's are a lot more rare than the previous figure 8 pattern.

 

[Larry]

If you have a 205 in a K10, it's not original.

Just crawl under it and look before getting excited. The round pattern 205's are a lot more rare than the previous figure 8 pattern.

X2.... I was just writing the same thing. Most likely an aluminum 208 or like you say, not original. 1980 was the last year for 205's in 1/2 and 3/4 tons after that they were 208's until the 241 came on the scene. The 205 was a K30 exclusive after 1980 and even at that, not all had them.

 

[Lawrence0485]

Oh well crap OK I'll try to get some pics cause I have no clue what each looks like.

 

[dyeager535]

Aluminum case it's not a 205, at all. 208 if original to that truck.

Aluminum is pretty much all you need to know.

You don't even have to climb under the truck to check...if the shifter doesn't go STRAIGHT forward and back, and you have a large plastic bezel with a shift indicator in it for the transfercase, you've got a 208 (if stock, if not stock, only other thing that would work is a 241)

 

[Lawrence0485]

Sweet... Its 22deg outside lol. Its definitely a 208 then. Looks like since its attached to a sm465, it is a 32 spline. Which after a little reading looks like a gm 4x4 nv4500 will bolt right up to the np208? Is that correct?

 

[Larry]

Sweet... Its 22deg outside lol. Its definitely a 208 then. Looks like since its attached to a sm465, it is a 32 spline. Which after a little reading looks like a gm 4x4 nv4500 will bolt right up to the np208? Is that correct?

Yes, as long as the SM465 rear adapter is the round pattern it will be the 32 spline which means your 208 will bolt on to the back of a NV4500 just like the 241 bolted to the NV4500 in my Burb. There is nothing wrong with a 208 tcase as long as you’re not doing crazy rock crawling or KOH kind of stuff. 208 has a better low range than a 205 anyway.

Round pattern 465 next to a NV4500

241 on a NV4500

 

[dyeager535]

With the adapters on them in that photo, are the 465 and 4500's essentially the same length?

In the photo, it sure looks like it.

I wouldn't mind doing a 4500 swap, but shortening driveshaft, cutting floor, and all the expensive parts required aren't making it easy to justify.

 

[Larry]

With the adapters on them in that photo, are the 465 and 4500's essentially the same length?

In the photo, it sure looks like it.

I wouldn't mind doing a 4500 swap, but shortening driveshaft, cutting floor, and all the expensive parts required aren't making it easy to justify.

Actually, that is the nice thing about going from a factory SM465/NP208 or NP241 to a NV4500/NP208 or NP241 is everything is bolt for bolt. The crossmember and shafts go right back into their original spot. The only real modification that needs to be done is to the trans tunnel to relocate the shifter tower hole.

I would recommend using the Advance Adapter bell housing along with their hydraulic clutch bracket so you can retain your original hydro slave, hose, etc. If you use a factory GM bell you will need to come up with a bastardized hydraulic hose contraption because the slave moves to the passenger’s side. Yours is on the driver’s side now. A bell and bracket will set you back a little over $300 through Summit Racing plus while you are there is it always a good idea to refresh the clutch, pressure plate, release bearing so really…you could be looking at a $600 to $700 swap in the end to do it right.

The NV4500 into my Suburban is basically the same thing you would be looking at. Thread here.....


But, yes...the round SM465 and NV4500 assemblies are very close. Within a 1/4 or less if I recall correctly. Definitely close enough where you don't need to change shafts or crossmember location...or at least I didn't on my Burb. I was shocked how easy the Burb swap was compared to doing a NV4500 in my '78 K10 with a 205.

 

[dyeager535]

Those are great pictures, thanks.

205 makes it a bit more difficult, I have to look at adapter prices again, but I almost think you could make a bar to fit between the trans/t-case adapter bolts that could hold the pivot for the shifter.

Somewhat regretting the 205 swap honestly, but it's got it's advantages.

 

[82355]

Has anyone made the OEM 465 bellhousing work with an NV4500?

Martin

 

[Larry]

Has anyone made the OEM 465 bellhousing work with an NV4500?

Martin

This guy did. Not sure I would do it do his procedure to my own truck but it looks like it worked for him. Only time will tell if there is any negative side affects by doing his procedure. Might just be the next big idea to save a few hundred bucks on this type swap

 

[Lawrence0485]

Yes, as long as the SM465 rear adapter is the round pattern it will be the 32 spline which means your 208 will bolt on to the back of a NV4500 just like the 241 bolted to the NV4500 in my Burb. There is nothing wrong with a 208 tcase as long as you’re not doing crazy rock crawling or KOH kind of stuff. 208 has a better low range than a 205 anyway.

Round pattern 465 next to a NV4500

241 on a NV4500

No my truck is just a Scottsdale work truck. Only goes off road a few times a yr, so I'm not worried about the 208 or even my 10bolts. I'm just really wanting to do a 12v Cummins swap. Can pull/haul anything I'll ever need (within reason) and get good mpg doing it.. Plus its just cool lol. If I find a crew cab before I get all the parts rounded up I'd rather do the swap on that. Do a 4" lift with 33's and flat bed it.

 

[82355]

This guy did. Not sure I would do it do his procedure to my own truck but it looks like it worked for him. Only time will tell if there is any negative side affects by doing his procedure. Might just be the next big idea to save a few hundred bucks on this type swap

Where did he get the cast iron tail housing?

Martin

 

[dyeager535]

I'm no engineer, but the cast iron is thicker where he bolted it and closer to the center of the case, so I would think that stronger than even the stock NV4500 bellhousing setup.

Dunno for sure, but that would save a fair bit of money and hassle.

 

[sweetk30]

my buddy did a 465 to 4500 swap with his 205 off the 465 . it was a round style 6 bolt 205 .

he did the aa spacer . also had me do the twin stick mod on his case and freshin it up . then he got the twin stick kit for this combo from off road design .

I had to talk him in to the twin stick mod and shifter kit . but once he played with it he LOVED it as he is locked front and rear . he said even if he wasn't he is still glad he has it now.

he twin stick mod makes the piviot point for the oem shifter a moot subject then .

 

[Larry]

No my truck is just a Scottsdale work truck. Only goes off road a few times a yr, so I'm not worried about the 208 or even my 10bolts. I'm just really wanting to do a 12v Cummins swap. Can pull/haul anything I'll ever need (within reason) and get good mpg doing it.. Plus its just cool lol. If I find a crew cab before I get all the parts rounded up I'd rather do the swap on that. Do a 4" lift with 33's and flat bed it.

Dude, re-read that to yourself out loud and listen how unwise that sounds. You’re not worried about a 208 or little 10 bolt axles but yet you want to swap in a Cummins? If you want a Cummins, be prepared to be swapping in many heavy duty drivetrain components.

Where did he get the cast iron tail housing?

Martin

Ah, that is a good one. In my ongoing ’78 K10 NV4500 swap thread the topic of supporting the 205 keeps popping up and just won’t go away. Then there are those that seem to think the 205 will crack the aluminum NV4500 rear adapter housing leaving the 205 barrel rolling down the highway . I could see that as a possibility with a 203/205 doubler contraption but I have my doubts just a 205 itself is going to break the aluminum adapter. I personally had never saw a cast iron rear adapter for a GM NV4500 but you can find them for the Dodge version all day long until that guy provided the name of risingvoffroad (Ryan) 217-304-4663 as a source of a GM cast iron NV4500 rear adapter. Later he also posted this link to another source of a cast adapter. I guess when my 205 falls off the aluminum NV4500 rear adapter I’ll go shopping for a cast iron one

my buddy did a 465 to 4500 swap with his 205 off the 465 . it was a round style 6 bolt 205 .

he did the aa spacer . also had me do the twin stick mod on his case and freshin it up . then he got the twin stick kit for this combo from off road design .

I had to talk him in to the twin stick mod and shifter kit . but once he played with it he LOVED it as he is locked front and rear . he said even if he wasn't he is still glad he has it now.

he twin stick mod makes the piviot point for the oem shifter a moot subject then .

Yeppers! The ORD modded shift rails for FWD combined with their twin stick shifter for the 205 is the bomb! I love it! I must admit, I was not really wanting a twin stick when I first did my NV4500 swap in the K10 back in 2010 and I may have even cussed at it a few times because it wouldn’t shift worth the crap but once I got the rods adjusted properly and now with the new modded shift rails I really love it! Not only that but the 205 shifts buttery smooth now too. Hell, it shifts easier than the 241HD in my Silverado. I would have never guessed a 205 could shift so easy!


This is the latest 205 I built for my K10 to hang on the back of the refreshed NV4500 in it. This one got a short 32 spline front input and the ORD modded shift rails, new seals and a few bearings.

After modding the NV4500 aluminum rear adapter for shift rail and idler shaft nut clearance.

The ORD twin sticks are cool! The only thing ORD could do better is come up with better knobs. The tops of the ORD knobs broke off when I screwed them on too far so I ordered up a set of JB Fab knobs. These are really cool too! I would proudly display ORD shift knobs if they ever come up with some nice ones until then, JB Fab knobs it will be.

BTW..... if anybody is interested in my old Advance Adapters pieces along with a clean 205 attached plus front driveshaft it is all available HERE. Don't get too distracted by the price. I am open to negotiations and possible trades. Just not interested in shipping it long distance. I wouldn't mind a 292 I6 engine for a different project....anybody got one of those they want to do some trading for a AA kit?