I been wondering about this.. first off why would anyone use an nv4500 with its wide spacing vs one of these trans? Both are stronger and larger.. Just wondering? say for a cummins or big block application..
CK5
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NV5600 vs ZF6
- Thread starter sreidmx
- Start date
4500 is shorter. And smaller but the only reason I can think of.
4500 has the same issue as a 465 in my mind the split between 3rd and 4th
4500 has the same issue as a 465 in my mind the split between 3rd and 4th
I can only speak from my experience... because I didn't know any better.
I blew up my 465 10 years ago and the only "upgrade" I had heard of at the time was the NV4500. If I would have know the gear spacing was exactly the same I wouldn't have bothered. I HATED that gear spacing, which is why I finally said F it and went automatic last year.
When looking to swap into a square body, there is A LOT of work to get a 5600 or ZF into one of these (even the styles with the large trans hump). Both of these trans are huge and would require major floor modification to get them to fit (unless you have a very large body lift...but that's a no-no IMHO). The NV4500 is a direct swap from either a 465 or a TH400 as they are the same lengths and you can use the existing trans cross-member with both which means no shaft modifications. So if you look at the cost-benefit of swapping a 4500 vs a 5600/ZF, you start to see why the 4500 is more common. I looked at all these options when deciding what trans to put in my crew cab I'm building now, and overall decided on the 4500 cause of the direct bolt in, it is a trans that will meet the needs of my application, and the 8.1 has the low end torque but also the higher rpm ability to overcome the splits better than other diesel options
Yes the 4500 has a pretty large 3/4 split, but it depends on your application. Behind a diesel (6.5 or cummins) they complain about it cause they use the lower RPM's to get their torque range and it's hard to overcome the split with those lower RPM's...so they are hunting for the right gear sometimes (3rd is too high, 4th is too low or however you want to look at it), but behind say an 8.1 or LS based motor where they love the higher RPM's, you can overcome the split a lot easier.
It all depends what you use the vehicle for. If you are building a tow monster and want to have a huge trailer hooked up to it at all times, then looking at a ZF/5600 is a good option, but there will be A LOT more work/$ to get it in there. If you are ok dealing with the split sometimes, then the 4500 is still a really good tranny that is a heck of a lot easier to swap into a square than the other options
Alright, that is great information!
@Kay86K5
Hit pretty much everything. I have looked at a 5600 and it would take much mods to even fit in the tunnel.
Also if you think the 4500 is expensive. Price out a 5600 I imagine the zf6 is just as bad.
I just pulled a G56 and its about 11 ft tall.
Though if someone wants to donate to the cause I would Rock any of those and detail exactly how much hacking is required to put em in
Hit pretty much everything. I have looked at a 5600 and it would take much mods to even fit in the tunnel.
Also if you think the 4500 is expensive. Price out a 5600 I imagine the zf6 is just as bad.
I just pulled a G56 and its about 11 ft tall.
Though if someone wants to donate to the cause I would Rock any of those and detail exactly how much hacking is required to put em in
This probally be for my 6.2 once turbocharged.. Just looking at options is all.. I have a 700r4 that's toast here now that I could also build.. Hmmm
I've torn an NV5600 apart. It was HUGE.
Martin
Martin
wetoolowdingbangow
1/2 ton status
Ew automatic.
The old-timers around here will remember that for a period of time I owned a T56 (6-speed) and was working to get it adapted to a 4x4 application.... Had it mostly figured out, but when I ditched the 7.56:1 axle gears it didn't make sense anymore.
Still, it would have been fun to see the "snick-snick" shifts of a close-ratio gearbox in a Blazer.
-G
You know, my brother and I were talking about the NV4500 splits and were wondering why there hasn't been a company that has come out with a rebuild kit to change the gear ratios of the NV4500? It is such a popular tranny for both the GM and Dodge guys, and most (especially in the Dodge application) are having to do rebuilds with a new main shaft cause of the 5th gear nut problem, and GM guys are more popular with the syncro's going out, you would think that someone would make a kit with replacement gears with different ratios so the split could be changed to be a little more matched to the motor that it's behind.
Or is there a company out there doing this that I don't know about?
Or is there a company out there doing this that I don't know about?
Yeah....both 5th and 6th gears were overdrive gears. 6th was .50:1 IIRC..... That tamed the 7.56s of the axles WAAAAAY down and would have made it completely highway friendly.
It would have been fun to hear a big, portal-axle geared truck banging off 6 close-ratio shifts on a full-throttle pavement assault.
-G
Years ago when I worked in parts stores,we had a huge catalog of aftermarket accessories we could order from a large warehouse--among the many vendors they sold parts for was Advanced Adapters--I recall seeing a kit to swap in a Muncie 4 speed from a full sized car into a GM 4x4,it allowed it to bolt up to a NP205 transfer case..
I know those close ratio 4 speeds aren't as beefy as a SM465,but for the daily driving use I did mostly with my '72 K5,I was quite tempted to bite the bullet and buy the kit,as I had access to quite a few of those 4 speeds back in the day...the truck had a ailing TH350 when I got it..but I found a "deal" on a SM465 in a wreck and bought everything to convert it over to that instead..
I was never really happy with the SM465 I swapped into that truck--I hated the gear spacing,and with 3:08 gears it was especially irritating in hilly terrain,which was common where I lived..
...also less than a month after the swap,the "new" Borg-Warner 12" 3 lever pressure plate failed--and the replacement diaphram one I installed started chattering and dragging shortly after I installed that one..ended up replacing that setup with a 11" Centerforce used clutch that was much better and was 1/3 the pedal effort..
Shortly after I did all the clutch work,the coupler between the tranny and transfer case started getting "rattly",and I knew the output splines on the trans were worn and sloppy--the new coupling I put in with some RTV on the splines was silent for maybe a month,then started rattling again...
By then I was wishing I'd have just had the TH-350 rebuilt and drove the dang thing...also I bought a '71 K5 CST for 300 bucks with a factory 4 spd,3:73's and a tach dash,shortly after I did all that work on the '72 ,and that truck was much more satisfying to drive with the lower gearing...till you tried going 65+mph for long trips anyway..
Since my left leg has given me grief lately,I'm rather glad my trucks are automatics,if they were not I'd be having trouble driving them..
I think an Alison is the best overall transmission ,if you have to have an automatic..
I know those close ratio 4 speeds aren't as beefy as a SM465,but for the daily driving use I did mostly with my '72 K5,I was quite tempted to bite the bullet and buy the kit,as I had access to quite a few of those 4 speeds back in the day...the truck had a ailing TH350 when I got it..but I found a "deal" on a SM465 in a wreck and bought everything to convert it over to that instead..
I was never really happy with the SM465 I swapped into that truck--I hated the gear spacing,and with 3:08 gears it was especially irritating in hilly terrain,which was common where I lived..
...also less than a month after the swap,the "new" Borg-Warner 12" 3 lever pressure plate failed--and the replacement diaphram one I installed started chattering and dragging shortly after I installed that one..ended up replacing that setup with a 11" Centerforce used clutch that was much better and was 1/3 the pedal effort..
Shortly after I did all the clutch work,the coupler between the tranny and transfer case started getting "rattly",and I knew the output splines on the trans were worn and sloppy--the new coupling I put in with some RTV on the splines was silent for maybe a month,then started rattling again...
By then I was wishing I'd have just had the TH-350 rebuilt and drove the dang thing...also I bought a '71 K5 CST for 300 bucks with a factory 4 spd,3:73's and a tach dash,shortly after I did all that work on the '72 ,and that truck was much more satisfying to drive with the lower gearing...till you tried going 65+mph for long trips anyway..
Since my left leg has given me grief lately,I'm rather glad my trucks are automatics,if they were not I'd be having trouble driving them..
I think an Alison is the best overall transmission ,if you have to have an automatic..
I agree, I thought that there was someone making a first gear for the 4500 unless someone is just transplanting the 6x gear into the newer 5x cases just for the crawler guys.. but I really dont get why they decided a wide ratio was a wise idea with a motor that makes such a narrow torque curve.. I get it with the 350 or 400 but not the diesel..
I tossed the Muncie idea around for my k5 but have resolved the fact that flying through the whoops at 50-70mph and me running out of shifting talent isnt the best for my drive train.. although it might be fun.. M22 and these 5:14s sure would scoot this pig..
I tossed the Muncie idea around for my k5 but have resolved the fact that flying through the whoops at 50-70mph and me running out of shifting talent isnt the best for my drive train.. although it might be fun.. M22 and these 5:14s sure would scoot this pig..
I actually prefer automatics because of leg problems. About once a year it seems like I'm on crutches and its my clutch leg alot.
While I can drive a clutch with only one leg it sucks
While I can drive a clutch with only one leg it sucks
Rockland Standard Gear makes a T56 4x4 tranzilla. It costs somewhere around $5k but has a round pattern adapter to bolt nearly any tcase up to it. They custom build them for each application with a selection of gear ratios and torque rating. I'd flippin love to have on in my K10 but at that price you're right in range with the NV5600, G56, and ZF6.
You can do a 4x4 T56 cheaper though with one from a C5 Vette. You'd need to change the output shaft and make a custom machined adapter. There's a build on PerformanceTrucks.net where a guy did this for less than half the cost from RS Gear. He's building a GMT800 RCSB with a turbo LS and AWD, talk about a badass combo!
You can do a 4x4 T56 cheaper though with one from a C5 Vette. You'd need to change the output shaft and make a custom machined adapter. There's a build on PerformanceTrucks.net where a guy did this for less than half the cost from RS Gear. He's building a GMT800 RCSB with a turbo LS and AWD, talk about a badass combo!
I somewhat agree though that the 3-4 split on the NV4500 is big. But With my healthy small block and a light truck it doesn't effect me much.
If you need a closer ratio trans on a budget, look at the NV3500. It's not quite as strong but it's not like it has plastic gears that shatter the second you start the engine. I feel like the internet has given it a bad rep for little reason.
If you need a closer ratio trans on a budget, look at the NV3500. It's not quite as strong but it's not like it has plastic gears that shatter the second you start the engine. I feel like the internet has given it a bad rep for little reason.
I saw that thread! That truck is bad.. So jealous lol I want that truck for a DD..
I had a 03 s10 with the v6 std cab, 2wd shortbed that had the nv3500 and I clutch dropped that at 5k every chance I got.. Never put a clutch in or had any issue with it..
I had a 03 s10 with the v6 std cab, 2wd shortbed that had the nv3500 and I clutch dropped that at 5k every chance I got.. Never put a clutch in or had any issue with it..
bronc3buster842001
1/2 ton status
I ditched the NV4500 in my DD for an NV3500.. Lot more fun to drive
