Oh great--the pitman shaft seal(s) are leaking now..

[diesel4me]

Well,the lone fluid using device on my pickup that had never leaked,started too the other day...the steering box.....

I noticed a rusty looking puddle under the drivers side front a few days ago--dripping off the leaf spring....at first I thought it was coolant,but nope--either ATF or P/S fluid,and the tranny cooler lines looked OK,and the cooler mounted behind the grill I cannot access, due to the welded plow frame supports someone added,being too close to remove the grille,but those hoses on the cooler look grimy,but not wet or dripping,just old seepage (thankfully),but closer inspection reveals some fluid coming out of the pitman shaft and running down onto the leaf spring (soaking the bushing too,I suppose that will fail next)..

The front of the steering box where that big "plug" and snap ring are is all grimy & wet too,but I think the leak comes from the pitman shaft and oozes down that way and then drips on the leaf spring..

I only had to add a small amount of fluid to fill the P/S pump up,despite the puddles looking fairly large..but now I can't trust this truck even more,due to it having hydroboost--the brakes seemed to lose some power assist recently,I thought it had a caliper or wheel cylinder seizing up,but the brakes do not drag or pull,or heat up..one rear wheel cylinder had oozed some fluid out a few months ago,but has never leaked since,I keep checking the brake fluid and its staying full....
Without P/S you have barely any brakes,OR steering,you have to stand on the pedal and it'll barely slow down,and trying to steer it is so hard you'll likely not make a sharp corner by turning the wheel quickly enough..rather dangerous to drive that way,to say the least,when it might lose enough fluid to cause lack of assist for both steering and braking..

I have replaced pitman shaft seals before,its a sucky job,I'd rather have a root canal..
I used the "remove the snap ring and start it up and hold the wheel at full lock,to blow out the seals" method,and it usually blows fluid 20 feet everywhere-if the seals come out period..if they dont you'll lie in a puddle for an hour trying to use a screw and a puller to get the seals out....then the new seal often fails to work for long,if at all,due to bushing wear in the box letting the pitman shaft flop side to side..

I kept a "good used" steering box off my previous 4x4,but its spent time outside under partial cover,and I doubt it wont leak if I went to put it in now..

Seems to me I read here you can remove that 4 bolt cover,and lift out the pitman shaft and replace the bushing from above,without any parts like ball bearings spilling out--am I hallucinating or not?...

This may be the "end" of using the pickup for a daily driver--I want to be able to go places and do things this summer ,and not in this thing--I'm tired of a rough riding,rotted out heap with 100 things cobbed together and 50 more waiting to fail..truck needs to be taken apart to be fixed right--or be used as-is for a "yard truck" only..its tough to fix your only vehicle while its still registered and has to be able to be driven daily and you cant leave it "down" for long..

I am going to have to bring my van back from the dead I guess,and swap the plates to it..the sucky part is that has sat since 2003 and will need as much work or more than the pickup will before it can be half trusted very far--and I'm not in great health to be doing major repairs on anything,really..I've looked for something better to buy,but everything I can afford is worse off than what I own now...at least I know what is wrong with them..

 

[4X4HIGH]

There is a bearing not a bushing for the pitman shaft just behind that seal. It is rare to have a failed or worn bearing. Without removing the steering box the method you've used in the past is best to remove the dust seal and the oil seal.

 

[K5wrench]

Why not just get a reman steering box from NAPA?
Mine has them in stock.
If youv'e done that seal before, the rest of the box probably is old as well.

Mine leaks out of the steering input shaft.
Plan on putting a new box in when i add the weld in frame repair kit.
It is a rusty old 1976 Cheyenne Blazer.
Was going to sell it cheap when I got the m1009 up and running.
Well, i can't bear to sell the Cheyenne now since it is nice to have a 400 and a spare vehicle.
They are cheap to register and insure here.

I'd swap a reman box in.

 

[SpeedlabDan]

I used the "remove the snap ring and start it up" method on my 82 c70 Topkick... What a mess!

 

[imiceman44]

I used the "remove the snap ring and start it up" method on my 82 c70 Topkick... What a mess!

That's the method for my freightliner big rig.
You're supposed to bump the starter not run the engine.
Bump until the seal pops.
And you rap a rag on the area to contain any spraying

 

[diesel4me]

So,the pitman shaft has a bearing it rides on,not a bushing?..huh..must be a needle type bearing ?..


I didn't try moving the pitman arm to see if it had any side play--if its a bearing there,maybe it'll live if I replace just the seals..(or have someone else do it,I'm not looking forward to doing ANY work on this truck or anything else I own..feel like a useless cripple lately as far as doing any repairs successfully alone--just sitting here my spine is killing me today,and both my arms feel bruised,and I haven't even done anything to make them ache)..

This is the first time the steering gear has leaked on this truck since I got it in 2003...with the millions of lock to lock turns I have had to do while plowing with it all these years, its amazing this hasn't happened sooner..when I got the truck the steering colum and shifter were tight as new,now they are loose and sloppy from all the manuvering over the years ..

The input shaft on the steering gear is bone dry,despite being all rusty in that area..
I suppose that end will leak next if I replace the pitman shaft seals..


I tried messing with that end of the gear once on another truck I had and that resulted in dismal failure,I had to go buy a used one at a salvage yard..

(I'd rather swap the whole steering box off another vehicle that looks leak free,than ever try "rebuilding" one--ditto for an automatic tranny,anything beyond a filter & fluid change and a govenor or modulator,I wont attempt to repair one)..I had good luck with salvage yard steering boxes in the past on my 4x4's that needed one..but back then they were plentiful and $50 got you a good low mile one that didn't leak..

Its been probably 20+ years since I did the last pitman shaft seal on a Saginaw GM steering gear ..driveway still has stains from the "extraction" too!..that one was on my '69 GTO,I had converted it to power steering and lucky me picked the P/S gear off a Buick Skylark that fit it, that leaked a few days after it was installed..looked bone dry on the other car..

I've never taken a power steering box apart before,I know there are dozens of ball bearings and seals and what not inside-- I'd be unlikely to be able to assemble properly..

Why don't I just buy a rebuilt from NAPA ?...

That's easy to answer--I don't have $200 to toss at this truck,when I'm already broke from paying $1500 in property taxes a week ago,and still need another $355 to pay the house insurance bill due in a week,and the usual utility bills..
---plus my house needs a roof badly,the chimney is coming apart at the top (got a $900 "estimate" to repair that!),and a large tree is now dangling over my quonset garage,threatening to cave it in,only thing holding it up is a chain I draped across 2 other trees in front of it..and so far no tree guy with a bucket truck will even think about doing it for less than $500...so I don't really want to put my truck in there in case it does fall on it and have it get squashed or trapped in there..

I get about $860 a month to live on,so even buying a seal kit and paying someone else to do it is not even an option at the moment..

If I felt up to it,I'd just swap on my used steering box and hope it wont leak,but after sitting 10 years I'm sure it will,and I'm not up to doing that job once,never mind twice..

I'm going to try some LUCAS P/S stop leak goop first...if that slows it down enough so I can drive it locally and just top it off every few days,it may just stay that way...everything else on it leaks except the fuel tank (that will be next probably,its looking ripe)--fluids are starting to cost me as much as diesel to fill the tank each month lately..none of them are cheap!..

I've about had it using this truck as my only daily driver,its time to put another vehicle on the road and retire this thing until I can accumulate all the parts it needs,and take my time picking at it --maybe I'll just sell both plow trucks,I dont know..getting highly discouraged paying insurance on a truck I cant trust to drive anywhere,and being stuck at home....

 

[K5wrench]

S

So,the pitman shaft has a bearing it rides on,not a bushing?..huh..must be a needle type bearing ?..


I didn't try moving the pitman arm to see if it had any side play--if its a bearing there,maybe it'll live if I replace just the seals..(or have someone else do it,I'm not looking forward to doing ANY work on this truck or anything else I own..feel like a useless cripple lately as far as doing any repairs successfully alone--just sitting here my spine is killing me today,and both my arms feel bruised,and I haven't even done anything to make them ache)..

This is the first time the steering gear has leaked on this truck since I got it in 2003...with the millions of lock to lock turns I have had to do while plowing with it all these years, its amazing this hasn't happened sooner..when I got the truck the steering colum and shifter were tight as new,now they are loose and sloppy from all the manuvering over the years ..

The input shaft on the steering gear is bone dry,despite being all rusty in that area..
I suppose that end will leak next if I replace the pitman shaft seals..


I tried messing with that end of the gear once on another truck I had and that resulted in dismal failure,I had to go buy a used one at a salvage yard..

(I'd rather swap the whole steering box off another vehicle that looks leak free,than ever try "rebuilding" one--ditto for an automatic tranny,anything beyond a filter & fluid change and a govenor or modulator,I wont attempt to repair one)..I had good luck with salvage yard steering boxes in the past on my 4x4's that needed one..but back then they were plentiful and $50 got you a good low mile one that didn't leak..

Its been probably 20+ years since I did the last pitman shaft seal on a Saginaw GM steering gear ..driveway still has stains from the "extraction" too!..that one was on my '69 GTO,I had converted it to power steering and lucky me picked the P/S gear off a Buick Skylark that fit it, that leaked a few days after it was installed..looked bone dry on the other car..

I've never taken a power steering box apart before,I know there are dozens of ball bearings and seals and what not inside-- I'd be unlikely to be able to assemble properly..

Why don't I just buy a rebuilt from NAPA ?...

That's easy to answer--I don't have $200 to toss at this truck,when I'm already broke from paying $1500 in property taxes a week ago,and still need another $355 to pay the house insurance bill due in a week,and the usual utility bills..
---plus my house needs a roof badly,the chimney is coming apart at the top (got a $900 "estimate" to repair that!),and a large tree is now dangling over my quonset garage,threatening to cave it in,only thing holding it up is a chain I draped across 2 other trees in front of it..and so far no tree guy with a bucket truck will even think about doing it for less than $500...so I don't really want to put my truck in there in case it does fall on it and have it get squashed or trapped in there..

I get about $860 a month to live on,so even buying a seal kit and paying someone else to do it is not even an option at the moment..

If I felt up to it,I'd just swap on my used steering box and hope it wont leak,but after sitting 10 years I'm sure it will,and I'm not up to doing that job once,never mind twice..

I'm going to try some LUCAS P/S stop leak goop first...if that slows it down enough so I can drive it locally and just top it off every few days,it may just stay that way...everything else on it leaks except the fuel tank (that will be next probably,its looking ripe)--fluids are starting to cost me as much as diesel to fill the tank each month lately..none of them are cheap!..

I've about had it using this truck as my only daily driver,its time to put another vehicle on the road and retire this thing until I can accumulate all the parts it needs,and take my time picking at it --maybe I'll just sell both plow trucks,I dont know..getting highly discouraged paying insurance on a truck I cant trust to drive anywhere,and being stuck at home....

Sorry to hear that you are in ill health.
If i lived closer, i'd help you.
Maybe someone here on this site lives nearby?
Can anybody help him fix the seal?

 

[diesel4me]

Well,today was the last ride for the old K2500..till I decide whether to fix it,or part it out,or sell it..

I'll say this--I'll never try driving anything with hydroboost when any part of the P/S system has a problem again..

I now feel very vulnerable ,now that I know how "un-driveable" a vehicle is if you lose a P/S belt,hose,or fluid,with hydroboost..

I've had other GM vehicles that lost a P/S belt or hose and do not recall it being near impossible to steer...(and they still had power brakes too!)...

Went to a swap meet nearby--only 12 miles away,one of the largest in New England..hate to miss it,its a two day affair--but yesterday it was cloudy and foggy,and after 11 am it started raining--so I held off going until today,they had predicted it "might rain after noon,but just be cloudy until then"...

Cost $10 just to get in..the swap meet almost always gets rained on ,more often than not..as a result,there was not that many selling there,plus the people running the event retired and there was a 3 month "limbo" period where they were unsure it would even go on there again period..

I only bought a few small items totaling 24 bucks--some chain hooks,a Husky ratcheting bone wrench,and the score of the day was a Fisher plow joystick with good cables,plus two more shorter new cables,for $15...these are getting harder to find cheap,if at all any more..

I had only driven the truck 8 miles yesterday--the P/S pump was full when I checked it before I left to go to the swap meet--it acted normal all the way there..

But when I returned to where I parked it,there was a large stain on the asphalt--I opened the hood,and filled the pump back up--it only took maybe a pint or so..

I didn't make it very far before the pump started groaning ,and I had to pull over about halfway home and fill it back up..

I got maybe 3 more miles ,and the groaning started again,now I had no power assist to the brakes OR steering,and the brake pedal was shuddering wildly when I applied the brakes,and the truck darted all over the road.....had to pull into a McDonalds and fill it back up again...now I see a steady stream pouring out of the pitman shaft..like as fast as I could pour more ATF in!..

I ran the pump almost empty in less than 2 miles--by now I was only a mile from my house ,so I just kept going--and dam near totaled a VW bus pulling out of my street,as I took the corner--the steering effort was incredibly hard and lumpy,and I went off the road into a soft shoulder--didn't lose control though,but came as close to crashing as you could !--good thing that telephone pole wasn't right at the corner or I'd have whacked it good..(might have been better off if I had)..

So,now the truck sits...cant drive it anywhere,and I had plans to go get groceries tomorrow,I'm about out of food--go pay my house insurance that is due by friday (has to be mailed to PA),and pay all my other utility bills..and I wanted to take back the cable boxes to Comcast and tell them to CANCEL my cable before Tuesday,otherwise I'll have to pay for another month's worth--to watch channels they decided to pull off my cable package without warning or any offer of a refund..

Had to happen now,at the worst time...

I called my next door neighbor and told her whats gone down--she's always helpful and offered to take me shopping or do the other chores tomorrow,but she has to work the graveyard shift tonight,and I know she probably feels irritated having to haul my a$$ all over town..I have no one else I can call,or borrow a vehicle from that doesn't live 70 miles away either though..

Hate to make my neighbor go out of her way to help--it sucks not having a second "back up" vehicle,I always had at least 2 on the road in the past..now I cant even go get parts,unless I beg a ride,or shell out $25 for a 4 mile taxi ride,that I cant afford..

I do not know what to do at this point..

I have a steering box off the '77 GMC I parted out many years ago that didn't leak THEN,but I thought of something--they changed to metric threads on the hoses after '79 ,so that box may not work for my '82 truck..and it could well leak after sitting so long too..
They never had hydroboost on the older square bodies as far as I know,so its unlikely power steering hoses with SAE threads are available for hydroboost ....(glad I thought of this now,instead of after installing the steering box...)

One possibility though--that '77 K2500 I parted had many parts from an '85 swapped onto its chassis--cab,doors,bed,etc--possibly the steering box too,so I'll have to take off the hoses and see if they are SAE or metric o-ring type..maybe I'll get lucky..

Might end up using that box as a core to avoid paying the core charge,if it ends up being SAE thread..
Hate to chance it might leak, if it ends up being the right threads --but I would rather not blow $200 on a rebuilt box for a truck I wont be driving far or much,when it has a few dozen other issues making it equally un-roadworthy still..it'll need a lot more than just a steering box..

I am going to get my van started tomorrow and see if I can move it from where it has sat,get it up on jack stands and see how things under it look--if it doesn't look like any suspension parts are rotted like the a-frames or rails,or cross members,I'd rather swap the plates to that and start driving that again,at least during the warmer weather..(my truck is due for a sticker next month too,and probably will not pass,so I just assume get the van going again,that will need tires,etc too though)..

The transmission in the van worries me though,it has needed a few quarts added every time I have started it before it would move,and I see no leaks anywhere under it..and the spare "good" transmission I have for it has sat at least 10 years too,it may have gotten water in it from condensation,and it had no dipstick tube--it was covered up,but that may not mean anything either..

Just feeling so frustrated--the '85 K-10 Suburban is a useless P-O-S in its present condition also,it has a dying 700R4,blown brake lines,rotted rockers,will likely need calipers,etc too..

My mom's '93 Caravan has sat since 2014 and had several "issues" when it was parked too,so that's probably worse off than my vehicles are..most likely going to scrap it, to get the cash to buy parts for my pickup or the van..

Even if I saw a potential "good" vehicle for sale online, I cant even go look at it now......

I need to go smash a chair into splinters or something...

...

 

[K5wrench]

Well,today was the last ride for the old K2500..till I decide whether to fix it,or part it out,or sell it..

I'll say this--I'll never try driving anything with hydroboost when any part of the P/S system has a problem again..

I now feel very vulnerable ,now that I know how "un-driveable" a vehicle is if you lose a P/S belt,hose,or fluid,with hydroboost..

I've had other GM vehicles that lost a P/S belt or hose and do not recall it being near impossible to steer...(and they still had power brakes too!)...

Went to a swap meet nearby--only 12 miles away,one of the largest in New England..hate to miss it,its a two day affair--but yesterday it was cloudy and foggy,and after 11 am it started raining--so I held off going until today,they had predicted it "might rain after noon,but just be cloudy until then"...

Cost $10 just to get in..the swap meet almost always gets rained on ,more often than not..as a result,there was not that many selling there,plus the people running the event retired and there was a 3 month "limbo" period where they were unsure it would even go on there again period..

I only bought a few small items totaling 24 bucks--some chain hooks,a Husky ratcheting bone wrench,and the score of the day was a Fisher plow joystick with good cables,plus two more shorter new cables,for $15...these are getting harder to find cheap,if at all any more..

I had only driven the truck 8 miles yesterday--the P/S pump was full when I checked it before I left to go to the swap meet--it acted normal all the way there..

But when I returned to where I parked it,there was a large stain on the asphalt--I opened the hood,and filled the pump back up--it only took maybe a pint or so..

I didn't make it very far before the pump started groaning ,and I had to pull over about halfway home and fill it back up..

I got maybe 3 more miles ,and the groaning started again,now I had no power assist to the brakes OR steering,and the brake pedal was shuddering wildly when I applied the brakes,and the truck darted all over the road.....had to pull into a McDonalds and fill it back up again...now I see a steady stream pouring out of the pitman shaft..like as fast as I could pour more ATF in!..

I ran the pump almost empty in less than 2 miles--by now I was only a mile from my house ,so I just kept going--and dam near totaled a VW bus pulling out of my street,as I took the corner--the steering effort was incredibly hard and lumpy,and I went off the road into a soft shoulder--didn't lose control though,but came as close to crashing as you could !--good thing that telephone pole wasn't right at the corner or I'd have whacked it good..(might have been better off if I had)..

So,now the truck sits...cant drive it anywhere,and I had plans to go get groceries tomorrow,I'm about out of food--go pay my house insurance that is due by friday (has to be mailed to PA),and pay all my other utility bills..and I wanted to take back the cable boxes to Comcast and tell them to CANCEL my cable before Tuesday,otherwise I'll have to pay for another month's worth--to watch channels they decided to pull off my cable package without warning or any offer of a refund..

Had to happen now,at the worst time...

I called my next door neighbor and told her whats gone down--she's always helpful and offered to take me shopping or do the other chores tomorrow,but she has to work the graveyard shift tonight,and I know she probably feels irritated having to haul my a$$ all over town..I have no one else I can call,or borrow a vehicle from that doesn't live 70 miles away either though..

Hate to make my neighbor go out of her way to help--it sucks not having a second "back up" vehicle,I always had at least 2 on the road in the past..now I cant even go get parts,unless I beg a ride,or shell out $25 for a 4 mile taxi ride,that I cant afford..

I do not know what to do at this point..

I have a steering box off the '77 GMC I parted out many years ago that didn't leak THEN,but I thought of something--they changed to metric threads on the hoses after '79 ,so that box may not work for my '82 truck..and it could well leak after sitting so long too..
They never had hydroboost on the older square bodies as far as I know,so its unlikely power steering hoses with SAE threads are available for hydroboost ....(glad I thought of this now,instead of after installing the steering box...)

One possibility though--that '77 K2500 I parted had many parts from an '85 swapped onto its chassis--cab,doors,bed,etc--possibly the steering box too,so I'll have to take off the hoses and see if they are SAE or metric o-ring type..maybe I'll get lucky..

Might end up using that box as a core to avoid paying the core charge,if it ends up being SAE thread..
Hate to chance it might leak, if it ends up being the right threads --but I would rather not blow $200 on a rebuilt box for a truck I wont be driving far or much,when it has a few dozen other issues making it equally un-roadworthy still..it'll need a lot more than just a steering box..

I am going to get my van started tomorrow and see if I can move it from where it has sat,get it up on jack stands and see how things under it look--if it doesn't look like any suspension parts are rotted like the a-frames or rails,or cross members,I'd rather swap the plates to that and start driving that again,at least during the warmer weather..(my truck is due for a sticker next month too,and probably will not pass,so I just assume get the van going again,that will need tires,etc too though)..

The transmission in the van worries me though,it has needed a few quarts added every time I have started it before it would move,and I see no leaks anywhere under it..and the spare "good" transmission I have for it has sat at least 10 years too,it may have gotten water in it from condensation,and it had no dipstick tube--it was covered up,but that may not mean anything either..

Just feeling so frustrated--the '85 K-10 Suburban is a useless P-O-S in its present condition also,it has a dying 700R4,blown brake lines,rotted rockers,will likely need calipers,etc too..

My mom's '93 Caravan has sat since 2014 and had several "issues" when it was parked too,so that's probably worse off than my vehicles are..most likely going to scrap it, to get the cash to buy parts for my pickup or the van..

Even if I saw a potential "good" vehicle for sale online, I cant even go look at it now......

I need to go smash a chair into splinters or something...

...

Is there a community college nearby?
I know at DeAnza in the automotive program, we would take hard luck cases.
The owner bought the parts and fluid, we supplied the tools and labor.
I dunno.
Wish I could help
I've got a good running 76 K5 with a 400 That is just rusty so I couldn't sell it if I tried.
But looks like you are 3,000 miles away.
Try the automotive school thing.
Sounds like all you need is a Pitman seal.

 

[Fordum]

About the transmission on the van, I know you know this, and you certainly don't need to be crawling under stuff, but consider the vacuum modulator. If it has one. Don't know which one is in there. Just about every time I have seen a GM tranny lose fluid with no sign of a leak, its been a pinhole in the modulator.

 

[diesel4me]

Fordum :
I have suspected the modulator but I found no ATF in the vacuum hose to it,nor does the engine blow any white smoke that would indicate ATF was being burned...I'm hoping it's the pan gasket weeps over time,it sits at least a few months between the times I get around to starting it up...long enough for 2 qts to ooze out,and not leave a stain in the dirt ..

K5wrench :

I appreciate the idea,but there isn't any places like that local to me--only the vocational school I went too,and they do not accept many requests to fix cars,or do things like put a roof on someones home any more,due to liability..
When I was a student there it was practically required,part of our learning for students like the ones in Carpentry shop class to go "in the field" and do home repairs for the elderly & low income..or take on jobs for small projects in Machine Shop,Metal Fab,etc..
I was in Industrial Maintenence where they teach you some of "everything",and I was put to work buffing floors in the cafeteria and did some wiring on an addition to the school,and repaired small engines for "customers"..
I asked a month ago if they still had students do house repairs ,since I need roof work on mine,and I told them I attended school there,but the woman said "Oh,we rarely accept any requests like those now,due to insurance regulations"...
I wonder if they still let them drive nails....

I will have to do my best to fix whatever vehicle I decide to use,whether it be my van or just fix the pickup..my back is junk from walking today so it'll be a few days before I'll be able to crawl under a vehicle and do anything--and be able to get back up..
I know how to fix just about anything they'll need--its the ability to physically do it that is the problem..

As I said earlier,the several attempts to replace only the pitman shaft seal(s) was a dismal failure in all but one or two cases when I tried doing it myself--my friend who owns an auto repair garage said he won't do them any more either for the same reason--too often it fails to stop the leaks.."Get a rebuilt steering box" ,is his advice,and some other pro mechanics I asked said the same thing--one said "even rebuilt boxes don't always pan out well either!"..

I've been looking online and rebuilt boxes run between $110 - $175 at places like NAPA,Advanced Auto,Autozone,etc--and the core charges are an additional $65 to $127,and if I go with an online supplier like Rock Auto or Summit,I must pay the shipping to send the core back too...
Believe me,if I could get away with just the pitman shaft seals,I'd be thrilled..not about installing them,just getting away with a $10 fix instead of hundreds..but the steering box is likely worn out,it is 35 years old and seen many plowing jobs,though it did seem to work ok until the leaks started..

I also just realized my plates expire in July..that's another $60..
Inspection sticker--$35.....mot to mention whatever parts the vehicle will need to be roadworthy and pass inspection..
And I need a dump permit,which I've put off getting since January,so I could get away with paying half the full amount for a half year--I didn't have $75 to blow for the full year,I've been burning anything that will in my garage wood stove and my friend let me dump whatever else I had in his dumpster at work..