Oh-OH...BAD noises from my 6.2 in my pickup..:(

[diesel4me]

Was going to the landfill yesterday and had to do a few errands on the way..my truck started OK,the temp was about 35 degrees,while it didn't fire up instantly,I was able to get it going after a few cycles of the glow plugs--didn't have the block heater plugged in..

Well,it sounded normal for the first 5 minutes,and I stopped at the bank to make a deposit,then after I got back in and headed for another store about 3/4 of a mile away,I feel the truck start lurching,then a horrible clattering starts ,intermittant at first,then it became a steady rythmic clatter..my heart sank,it sounded like something BAD just let go--thoughts raced in my head,now what??..
--did the rusty oil cooler lines let go,or the J-B weld fall off the rotted oil pan and let it run dry??..busted flexplate??..ROD BEARINGS??..Busted CRANK??....I was quickly becoming suicidal,at the thoughts of having to pull a motor NOW ,right at the beginning of plow season,I had just put the dam plow on a few days ago too,naturally!..

I drove it to the store,got my trash bag stickers for the dump,and checked the oil..still full!..hmmm...start it up and its still clattering like the hammers of hell,and it sounded like it was coming from the drivers side valve cover...oil pressure was the same as its always been,and it wasn't skipping,so I decided the trash HAD to get dumped,so I went on to the landfill about a mile away,clattered all the way there,and got louder at times,then it would quiet down some..I had the same symptoms all the way home,about 3 miles ..

When I made it about a half mile from my house,(close enough to WALK if need be!) ,I decided to put the boots to it and floored it .wound it up in first to about 25 mph,and I felt the govenor kick in,and almost immediately it got quieter,much to my surprice,I figured it would toss a rod out the ride..after I got home I ran it 20 minutes and I couldn't hear it any more!..

The only thing I can think of is maybe a lifter collapsed or some crap went through the oil passages and starved a bearing or something..also,last week I added about 6 ounces of "Power Kleen" anti-gel and conditioner stuff,the thought crossed my mind that perhaps it loosened some carbon up or an injector got stuck and flooded one cylinder,but like I said,it didn't skip,it was just noisy..I also wondered about a glow plug tip letting go,since I did swap in an autolite one (or two) awhile back in a pinch when two of the AC 60G's died on me,maybe one of them burnt up being manually switched.I dont know..

Thing has me baffled now..I know it does need an oil change and the oil does smell like diesel some,but is still slippery and not real thin--the fuel filter has been on it since I got the truck,but I only drove it 2500 miles in 6 years and I drain it often,and never see any water come out of it..

Any ideas what it was you guys???...I'm praying it was just a fluke I am in no shape to be yanking a motor out NOW,and I do not look forward to plowing my 150' driveway with garden tractors!..this motor always ran good and had no noises till yesterday..

 

[85-m1028]

I'd change out any rubber fuel lines and change the fuel filter..

The lift pump on the side of the engine block supplies pressure to the fuel injection pump. Check to make sure you're geting fuel squirting out at a good rate.

Sounds to me like you just to do the PIA routine maintainence diesels require.

If you get low suppy pressure, restricted filter or air on the system it will throw off timing in the injection pump and cause what you're describing.

DO NOT AUTOMATICALY RULE OUT FUEL FILTER DUE TO LOW MILAGE!!

 

[diesel4me]

Yeah,I know I haven't given it the best of maintenence,it mostly sits until I need to dump the trash or plow my driveway..I should change the oil but I hate taking out the drain plug ,the pan is so rotted,and doing so will probably flex it enough to pop off the J-B waterweld putty...with my luck thats just what'll happen ,or the oil lines will pop as soon as I put 20 bucks worth of oil and filter in it..

I dont doubt the fuel filter is pretty dirty,seeing its been there a long time and I never have kept the tank full,more like 5 gallons in it most of the time..I have an electric fuel pump boosting the stock lift pump,so that should make filling the new filter up easier before starting it,hopefully it wont get airbound ,because I dont dare loosen the injector lines,being crusty and fragile..

Worst part of all is the fact we are in for a foot of snow tommorrow night into sunday..I'm going to put the snowblower on my Sears Suburban tractor and bring the one with a plow blade inside the garage too,seeing I might have to use those if my truck refuses to start...its only 8 degrees out here right now,and my tank type block heater most likely wont heat it up enough to get the dam truck to even start,unless it warms up to near freezing tomorrow..the noises I heard sounded like a couple of valves suddenly got a LOT of excess clearance,maybe lifters collapsed, I dont know..if I can scrape up some cash I will change the fuel filter at the least..Lord knows its overdue for replacement..

 

[85-m1028]

If you have an electric lift pump then I would bypass the one on the engine block. Diesel is prob getting into the oil from the mechanical lift pump.

 

[diesel4me]

The mechanical one was replaced just before I got the truck,has about 5K on it--I know that might mean nothing,but I'd think it would last longer than that!..my Suburban has a 6.2 and only has the same aftermarket electric pump on it (whoever put it in bypassed the mechanical one) and it seems very doggy,but is also a lot quieter than the pickup's engine is too..
I think if my oil is diluted any,its not much,and its more from short trips and little actual "road use" thats to blame..

 

[85-m1028]

one more thing check the harmonic balancer, front of the engine. look for the rubber ring and check to see of its cracked or sqeezing out..

 

[diesel4me]

Balancer looks OK,same as it always did..the engine proved very hard to start afyter 20" of snow fell here a week ago,and I had to resort to using starting fluid as a last ditch effort to start it,and I did get it going finally--it sounded like a few lifters were stuck for a minute or two,then they quieted down,and it sounded OK the whole time I beat the snot out of it moving the 3-4' drifts from my driveway..all I can think is the Power-Kleener stuff broke loose some carbon under a valve,or lifters collapsed or something..hope I never hear it again,but I am betting I haven't heard the last of it yet!..

Now its 50 degrees out,raining,and the snow is dissapearing FAST!..but more might come tomorrow,and later this week it will be only 20 for a HIGH temp,with plenty of fgusty winds..UGHHH!..bad weather to own 2 diesels in!...beginning to wish I had a gas engine instead,at least they START in cold weather,and you can usually get the spark plugs out of them with no issues!.

 

[85-m1028]

if all the glow plugs are in working order, I check mine with an OHM meter if there is resistance then it's still good. that way you can check em without removing em.

and batteries are strong? You may very well have an injection pump on its way out.

Do you know how many miles on that pump? You would be amazed at how many horrible sounds these engines can make simply because the fuel system is not up to snuff.

a ticking lifter sound can mean an injector not popping right due to low injector pump pressure causing the fuel not atomize and/or to discharge out of time.

 

[MaxPF]

Balancer looks OK,same as it always did..the engine proved very hard to start afyter 20" of snow fell here a week ago,and I had to resort to using starting fluid as a last ditch effort to start it,and I did get it going finally--it sounded like a few lifters were stuck for a minute or two,then they quieted down,and it sounded OK the whole time I beat the snot out of it moving the 3-4' drifts from my driveway..all I can think is the Power-Kleener stuff broke loose some carbon under a valve,or lifters collapsed or something..hope I never hear it again,but I am betting I haven't heard the last of it yet!..

Now its 50 degrees out,raining,and the snow is dissapearing FAST!..but more might come tomorrow,and later this week it will be only 20 for a HIGH temp,with plenty of fgusty winds..UGHHH!..bad weather to own 2 diesels in!...beginning to wish I had a gas engine instead,at least they START in cold weather,and you can usually get the spark plugs out of them with no issues!.

6.2's in good mechanical condition with good working glows and cold weather additive in the fuel (to prevent waxing) should start even at 0 degrees F. It will be noisier than a busted chainsaw until it warms up, but it will start.

 

[tRustyK5]

6.2's in good mechanical condition with good working glows and cold weather additive in the fuel (to prevent waxing) should start even at 0 degrees F. It will be noisier than a busted chainsaw until it warms up, but it will start.

Don't forget a functiong HPCA...it's a pretty important 'aid' for cold weather starting. My pick-up doesn't start worth a sh!t without it, and when it does end up firing it's pretty smoky. With the HPCA energized it fires much easier, hits on all 8 right away and not much smoke.

Rene

 

[Duntz00]

Don't forget a functiong HPCA...it's a pretty important 'aid' for cold weather starting. My pick-up doesn't start worth a sh!t without it, and when it does end up firing it's pretty smoky. With the HPCA energized it fires much easier, hits on all 8 right away and not much smoke.

Rene

Whats a HPCA, Im a diesel noob.

 

[MaxPF]

Whats a HPCA, Im a diesel noob.

Housing Pressure Cold Advance. It is a solenoid that, when energized, bleeds off the fuel pressure in the IP's housing. Since that pressure is applied to a piston opposite of the RPM-modulated pressure, releasing it forces the piston to full advance. The extra advance during cranking when cold helps to get the engine lit off.

 

[diesel4me]

I'm not sure if my HPCA is working,probably it isn't because I never hear any difference in idle speed cold VS hot..I tried hunting down the switch thats supposed to be in the head or intake that controls it but couldn't see it..(admittedly I didn't look that hard!)..since my truck started pretty well with 7 new glow plugs since 2003 when I got it,I never bothered seeing if that HPCA was working..

I think that solenoid is mounted right on the injector pump,and shares a green wire with another device in it,correct??..if anyone here can school me on how to hotwire it with a toggle switch to see if that helps it start better,I'd be gratefull..

 

[tRustyK5]

Here are a couple of pic's to illustrate what I did to have my HPCA work off a toggle switch.

First pic shows the green wires at the IP, these need 12 volts to energize the HPCA.

You don't need to do anything at this end of things, you need to look farther back in the wiring harness on the passenger side near the rear of the engine. You should find a grey two pole plug with one green wire, and one pinkish/red wire.

Use a test light and confirm when the key is on you have 12 volts at the pinkish wire. As you can see I ran two wires from this plug to under my dash and into a two pole toggle switch. You can also see how temporary my set-up is/was. For whatever reason there is no temp switch on this 6.2, yet the plug and wiring are present. I have a temp switch in my other 6.2 that I need to swap over...then I can get rid of the stupid switch.

Generally I'd flip the switch when the motor was cold, blip the gas pedal about a 1/4 throttle to allow it to set high idle etc with the HPCA energized and fire it up when the glow light went out. I'd leave the HPCA on for the first minute or two, then turn it off and it worked great that way.

Rene

 

[diesel4me]

I think my engine is like the one you described without a sensor too--I have had two wires that were dangling since I got the truck on the passenger side that might be the grey & pink ones with a plug on them,I'll have to look closer at it tomorrow..

Edit :..I pulled the green wire off at the solenoid on the injector pump after a cold start,and it DID drop the idle speed some!..so maybe its working ??..and those other wires went to something else like a cruise control module,I recall taking off a bracket for one that my Suburban's 6.2 has with cruise!..

Also,I did some work on the glow plugs..my brother gave me some "good used" ones with low miles from a 6.5 he had at work ,a fleet truck that had staring troubles,but it turned out it was the injector pump..

Ayway,the "fun" began when I went to remove 4 of the five year old
AC 60g's that were so rotted they looked like 30 year old bleeder screws,and the wires and tabs they connected to had rotted right off,(gee,I wonder why it wouldn't start?? :rolleyes)...these had maybe 2000 miles use too,some were dead,others worked fine but now had no tab to plug the wire onto any more,and were too rusted to leave in much longer ,or I'd never get them out..

I think I found the cause of the "horrible noise"..in the second cylinder froim the drivers side front (#3 if it were a 350!) ,I had put an Autolite glow plug in after I found a dead AC 60G about 6 months ago,and maybe used the truck 5 times to go to the dump since..today when I removed it--it was only HALF as long as the others were..so evidently it broke somehow,and was inhaled into the cylinder!..
I still hear tappet noises or similar after a cold start,but it diminishes after it warms up..runs OK,it dont skip--but I fear internal damage was done,that may not show up right away..

I couldn't get the rearmost passenger side glow plug out due to the heex being so rotted away and I was running out of daylight--it still tests "good" with a test lamp,so when the wire and plug in it refused to come off ,being fused together with rust,I ended up snapping the tab off it..(GRRRR!)..So ,for now that one has an alligator clip on it..

Between the starting problems,and all the other rotted things on this engine that will be nightmares to replace like the oil cooler lines,exhaust manifolds,etc,and the fact I had a hard time getting the truck to MOVE forward yesterday,like something was jammed up in the rear diff (brakes were not stuck,I took the drums off for nothing)--I am about ready to sell it AND the 85 diesel Burb as a package deal--if I didn't need a plow truck desparately I would ..I am SO sick of seeing good vehicles dissolve into unrepairable rust nuggets in 5 years time here..but anything newer is no better and is built from junk too..

I guess I had better get the plow frame and pump on the Suburban and start looking for a good 700r4 or whatever to replace it..pickup might not be on the road for long,needing all this work on the brakes and possibley a rear end now..weird things is,once I got it to go forward without dragging or banging it drove normally and no unusual noises..

After I installed the used glow plugs,I looked one of the ones left over and discovered they were AC "9G"'s!...F*******!..I suppose those will melt using them with a manual button ???..probably have to yank them back out,dammit!..my back is fubared from plowing with a garden tractor and bending over for hours under the hood today..I'm getting discouraged enough to get rid of all my vehicles and just pay someone else to plow now..getting too old,blind,and crippled with arthritis to be playing with all this stuff anymore..

 

[MaxPF]

I am SO sick of seeing good vehicles dissolve into unrepairable rust nuggets in 5 years time here..

I still haven't figured out why people who live in these cold, snowy places haven't long since lobbied their state and local gummints to get the use of salt and other corrosive road treatments banned? Until recently the only thing used on the roads in northern AZ during the snow season was volcanic cinders. The worst they would do is erode the paint on your rockers and wheel wells. In the past couple years they started using magnesium chloride though. It's not as bad as salt at causing corrosion, but it is far from benign like cinders It is better than salt though, since they spray it on as a liquid solution before it snows. It then (supposedly) prevents the snow from freezing onto the road surface.

 

[Mikey von]

We use cinders here in northern cali. It gives really good traction on ice and minus paint chips on the rockers it is easy on vehicles and just gets swept up in spring. We are fortunate though and have cinder mines local to us.