Overland rigs, expedition rigs, whatever else you call it

[kellyjohn]

Well Put Natemc!!

I guess for me I consider the difference between adventure and overland being the night life.
Backcountry Adventure being a trip in where we set up a camp.
Overland Expedition being an extended multi-day trip where camp is set up and broke down everyday.

An adventure has a loose plan. A location in mind to do whatever when we get there.
An expedition has a daily plan and schedule. The in between of the schedule can be modified as needed but ultimately needs to stay fairly on track.

Either one is still considered vehicle reliant to me.

Love your interpretation of the variable terminology....

The Wife and I were on a 1 week, totally self dependent off road trip, in Moab with a guide, back in May, requiring us to have everything --shelter, food, water, booze, fuel, spare parts, tools etc., etc., .
He drives a Rover (former Camel Trophy Participant) and looks at 33" tires as big.
His description of what many of us do, is not much different than what he calls "over-landing"

The ultimate style or design of rig depends on the preference of the participants.
Some want camper style comfort for meals and sleeping.
Others enjoy being able to drive over 36" boulders as a preferred line of travel.
While there may be many of us that fall somewhere in between.

The main similarities are:
Self sufficient
Off road, with some variation in terrain.
More than 1 day duration.
Get back to civilization in one piece, having left minimal impact to our surroundings.

We did it in a short box pickup and a Bobbed Sub, both on 42's, with our kids, and tented for the full 7 days.

Not sure if there is an exact term for our "hobby", "passion" or "obsession", but regardless what it's technically called ---I Love it!!!

Just my 2 cents...

 

[super k]

Don't get hung upon descriptions and definitions. Whether you are out for 6 months,6 days,or 6 hours if you are going out to cover ground rarely traveled it's all the same. You don't have to be rich. To go for a week ir two just takes a vacation and preparedness. You can put your money into your rig all year long for those special times,just like a fishing boat or a Harley. These are middle class hobbies. You put your money into something if you love it enough. Your time out doesn't have to cost as much a cruise ship or vacation at tourist trap. A lot depends on where you live. If back country adventure is withing reach then it's something for about any local. I'm a carpenter,and when I lived outside of Flagstaff I owned the economy version of what Larry has. It was a '71 shortbed with a topper,winch,an extra fuel tank,and a bunch of camping gear. Here it is in Page,AZ. on stop for groceries after being out for a few days:

 

[kellyjohn]

Cool Rig!
Great statement too!

 

[COCHEV]

Don't get hung upon descriptions and definitions. Whether you are out for 6 months,6 days,or 6 hours if you are going out to cover ground rarely traveled it's all the same. You don't have to be rich. To go for a week ir two just takes a vacation and preparedness. You can put your money into your rig all year long for those special times,just like a fishing boat or a Harley. These are middle class hobbies. You put your money into something if you love it enough. Your time out doesn't have to cost as much a cruise ship or vacation at tourist trap. A lot depends on where you live. If back country adventure is withing reach then it's something for about any local. I'm a carpenter,and when I lived outside of Flagstaff I owned the economy version of what Larry has. It was a '71 shortbed with a topper,winch,an extra fuel tank,and a bunch of camping gear. Here it is in Page,AZ. on stop for groceries after being out for a few days:

Thats pretty awesome, and well said. Love the slotted mags BTW

I'll plug the Expedition Portal again. There is a wide range of people with the same differing views and ideas of what overlanding is. Check out the "In progress adventures" forum for some cool trips some have made with amazing picture. Plenty of CK5ers over there on the full size forum as well.

You pretty much have to have a do-it-all rig that fits your style. That leaves it pretty wide open right there

 

[Cucv_M1008]

I cant DED in the bay area

 

[magik235]

I met these people in Sedona. They have traveled the world in their expedition vehicle. They were extremely nice and interesting people. They were headed to Alaska after he made a guest speaker appearance at the Expedition Expo in Flagstaff. Information about their travels and vehicle are on various pages of the link below.

http://www.guidebooks.com.au/about.htm

 

[mosesburb]

Meh, call it what you want. Back country exploration, overlanding, et al. Hell, before Algore invented the internet I only knew it as truck camping. I think the people who argue the loudest over the terminology are typically the ones who have a truck outfitted with all the cool goodies and then drive it around town. Their large tyres have no chunks of rubber missing from the lugs from actual trail usage. When telling someone what I do or where I went etc, I will usually call it overland travel. Right or wrong it gets the point across.

I think as far as an adaptable rig goes, you'd be hard pressed to beat your Suburban. They have their drawbacks and their limitations, but as far as usable space and possible seating for six, you can't beat it. I have a Suburban but have longed for something that will accept a camper something like what Larry has, but I learned long ago that I would have to custom build something to do what I want and that what I have is about as good as it gets.

Here is how I look at the platform; You get seating for up to six adults (eight with a third row, but no gear storage). If you want that capacity in a pre GMT400 platform pickup you are looking at a crew cab. Way too much wheelbase for places I go. Switchbacks on shelf-roads would be a eight to ten point turn. Navigating past a washout on a shelf-road with that much wheelbase would often be terrifying. With a Suburban you get your seating for six with an attached, all weather storage area on (effectively) a long wheelbase truck frame. While still a bit long on the wheelbase, it can be dealt with without much fanfare. The Suburban has the same drawback of a pickup with a camper shell/topper in that when you switch from travel mode to camp mode you have to bag-drag your stuff from the back to somewhere else (usually the front) in order to have room to sleep in back (tent camping skips this process). The nice thing about a Suburban is this *can* be accomplished from inside the vehicle if you have to do the switch in rain etc. For a family of three/four a Suburban is the perfect size. If you can't fit your gear in a Suburban you seriously need to re-inventory your equipment/supplies. I have an overbuilt prototype sleep platform in mine and I use the basement for spare parts/fluids/tools etc (heavy items) and I keep the bedding, food and clothes on top of the platform. It keeps the center of gravity lower and reduces the amount of time/energy needed to do the flip from travel to camp mode.

As far as tires go, it is whatever suits your travel plans best. I have run 33" tires on mine and have not had an issue with them that has made me want something bigger. Now your intended destination may require something larger. I run BFG A/Ts now, but then again I avoid mud at all costs (usually pretty easy to do in the desert). I have run mud tires in the past. They were the same 33" height, but narrower than my A/Ts. I liked them better as they were narrower and seemed to drive nicer because of it. Once again, it comes back to what your intended usage is. Muds are better in snow, but suuuuuck on ice. A/Ts are better on ice, but don't self-clean in snow for squat and the same goes for mud. Whatever works best for you. Need big?? Then go big. The best thing you can do is research what people in your area or intended target are needing/running and base your decisions on that. What works for us in the four corners area probably won't be of much value to you where it actually rains etc. There are some great builds on here and other sites that can be invaluable when it comes to outfitting your rig both inside and out. Keep in mind these trucks are not light to start with and adding all of the goodies "needed" for camping travel etc can get them pretty heavy really quick. Outfit accordingly.

 

[super k]

Cool Rig!
Great statement too!

Thats pretty awesome, and well said. Love the slotted mags BTW

Thanks guys. That was circa 1980-81,which explains the slots (and other vehicles in the pic). Not that I don't have a set for my '72 GMC now'too

I cant DED in the bay area

There's no place to go that deep into wild country,either,where I live. You do what you can where you can and for some of us it requires traveling far to travel far off road. Or,settle for the abbreviated version. Going out in the winter is the best way for me to feel more away from it all because at least there's a good chance you won't see anyone else.

Meh, call it what you want. Back country exploration, overlanding, et al. Hell, before Algore invented the internet I only knew it as truck camping. I think the people who argue the loudest over the terminology.......

Many good points made there Mosesburb. And I agree how ideal 4wd Suburbans are,off the shelf. They aren't called "carryalls" for nothing. Back before the SUV explosion a Suburban was the only full-size unit available (after IH died out and we lost the Travelall). Who made the maps? Surveyors,and they did it driving Suburbans years before satellites sailed the heavens.
Truck camping,yeah. One mile,10,100,1000 miles,whatever. One thing I was kinda wanting to say in my last post is it's more getting out there than about the vehicle. Sure,you need a 4wd and a winch sure allows more capability and draws the line between turn back and keep on. But,this whole overland rig thing makes it all about the rig,and yeah,you end up with more of those folks like Mosesburb mentioned.I love the design and functional aspects of a well-built rig. I love all purpose-built 4wds. But,the other end of it is the bare bones minimalistic approach. You do what you can,but when it comes down to it,if you live where you can get back far and away the main thing is "do it" not "have it".

 

[kellyjohn]

One of the simple truth statements of this thread!!!

super k I think you nailed it!


"do it" not just "have it". you said it all...

 

[natemc]

Agreed with all of you guys. I started this thread to spark the conversation. Recently here(home) the conversations have been about the intent of vehicles. Some friends say big tires and hardcore trails. Some say let's just drive somewhere in what we got. Seeing a compact car roll up to a locked gate during hunting season. Don't take my questions as me wanting to know what the cookie cutter looks like. I like to know what everyone's ideas are. The wagons of the old west got our ancestors over here. Why can't any rig get you over there.
The other part of our conversations have been the camping gear. Camper or tent. Pros and cons. Moseburb mentioned it earlier. Most campers can't go to far off the beaten path. Larry and some others have a good offroad setup. What it took to put those together, build a suburban. I plan to modify my interior and it will be pretty gadgetry. Ideas flow from various build threads.
Lets keep this conversation rolling. I think most of us are interested in the same thing. Getting our custom/home built masterpieces into the unknown. Whether it be someplace we visit regularly or a new location altogether. It's always unknown what is around the next corner. That brings me to a story for you all.
My parents never had extra money for nice vehicles. My dad was a long haul trucker so he didn't need the fancy pickup sitting in the driveway. He had beaters sitting in wait back home. As a 13 year old boy who couldn't wait to get into the woods. I just needed a ride out of town. When he was home for a couple extra days, we would explore. I started shifting gears in a Datsun B210. That's right a 4 door hot rod if I recall, . Mom always knew when I was driving as we left the driveway. I always killed it once as we left. He and I had the trunk loaded with everything we could think of to get us out and back. With some heavy lug retreads on the back we didn't have to shy away from the sloppy roads. As years past, vehicles changed. We had a 2wd Nissan with 33" stuffed in the wheel wells. We fished and hunted all over the mountains with that one. A bed box stuffed with all we could fit in it. My little brother started heading into the brush with us and we had someone else to care for. I remember a weekend in general after a bad storm. The three of us headed out exploring. Towards the end of the day we came across a washed out section of road. I told my dad we could make it. We had the gear do deal with it. He just responded by reminding me that it wasn't just him and I anymore. We chose to turn around and leave that road for another day. My brother never really got into the outdoor lifestyle but he and I were given the opportunity. I haven't stopped traveling into the unknown. I also haven't stopped taking those who think they want to explore and play off the beaten path. Many still go with me and many stay at home. The deal is though, you just have to get out there.

 

[Blue85]

Is it Pewe from one of the mags that does the DED: dirt every day. The whole idea is not taking the highway/ most direct path but to go out of the way to take dirt roads where ever you go to get to your destination. That's pretty cool.

I've started doing that on return trips from the UP when time allows. With a GPS and Gazeteer you can hit some decent trails without wandering lost for hours. There are logging roads and trails everywhere - I won't cover them all in my lifetime.

Unfortunately due to fuel costs, many longer trips are by boring FWD transport. This limits where you can explore, but honestly even a little car or minivan can travel some 2-tracks. My new family car has a 2-speed transfer case and 31's (Yukon XL), so maybe more opportunities will arise.

 

[Stephen]

Rover guys go overlanding
Toyota guys go on expeditions
Chevy guys go camping.

Small tires are nice when you have to drive a long way on the road to get somewhere interesting. We took a little trip down to the Baja a month back to watch the race and drive some beaches and put 1000 miles on the truck each way to the border. I ended up driving down on some 40" MTRs and back on some 37" Mickey ATZs and even though the gearing was off with the little tires the milage was a little better and it's way easier on the head thinking that you're wearing out tires that are way more available and affordable. The 37's were nice just because we drove a good bit of rough road and the bigger tires help soak up more. "Bigger" being bigger than the other guys I was with with 33's and 35's.

The whole idea with this trip fits in here too. Just get your truck together and go! We were supposed to take our cheap truck and ended up with the UAK2500, Fred Williams had his cheap truck suburban and Ned Bacon was in his new to him '84 K5. All pretty basic trucks that did pretty good on the trip and we had a great time.
I could see someone on the east coast building around a 35" tire to make the road trip work better and I could also see finding somewhere to store a truck out here for a while and flying out a couple times a year for a while.

 

[natemc]

Kellyjohn
Did you drive to moab or trailer there?

 

[cybrfire]

I've often considered a short box pickup with a pass though cab/box. One of those flexible seals between the two.

Pickup topper of some kind of course. Maybe a handcrafted one to make it exactly the way I want it.

Would have to be simple and dead reliable. Anything other than that is scenery really.

 

[kellyjohn]

Moab trip

Kellyjohn
Did you drive to moab or trailer there?

We drove both trucks down.

Only casualty was the clutch disk in the Power Wagon failed, just before Elephant Hill, so Kelly made the climb and decent with no clutch and afterwords I had an all night wrench session on the side of the highway to remove it, repair it and re-install it.
Blasted NV4500 trani is HEAVY!!!

My 2 boys are in their 20's so 1 rode shotgun with Kelly and 1 with me.
Planning on trailering 1 for BB13 partly because it's just the Wife and I commimg.
No point in either one driving alone.

 

[natemc]

If I make it to BB13 we'll be driving the distance. We'll be looking forward to meeting you and your wife.

 

[Larry]

I've often considered a short box pickup with a pass though cab/box. One of those flexible seals between the two.

Pickup topper of some kind of course. Maybe a handcrafted one to make it exactly the way I want it.

Would have to be simple and dead reliable. Anything other than that is scenery really.

A topper works great for this kind of stuff. The only problem is if you do this often you will quickly outgrow the topper and wish you had gone to a camper of sorts straight out of the shoot. I recommend trying to find a good used Four Wheel Camper that you can take on and off the truck as you need it. I ran a topper for 4 years but longed for more room and amenities, which is why I finally just had a Phoenix camper custom built. It gets old packing and unpacking the topper in order to set up camp every day. Having running water makes showering on several day excursions so much nicer and having heat for winter trips is a major bonus.

As much as we all like to get off the grid for a few days, the people at home that we leave behind don’t always like that…..such as your wife. I highly recommend a SPOT GPS messenger as the people at home can see where your location within a 10 minute window on Google earth. My wife doesn’t need to speak with my every day, she just needs the peace of mind knowing I have driven off a cliff somewhere. The SPOT does not allow for two way communication (not the SPOT that I have anyway) but you can notify people that all is okay, you need help or contact 911. It is a great tool to have. Here is a SPOT summary page of a trip we did in 2009 to Canyonlands Glen Canyon National Recreation Area. Zoom in and flip the screen view over to Satellite view. Pretty remote area that is for sure. Not a place you want to break down or even break an ankle.

Toppers work great but you will quickly run out of room. Also hard to hold ice for several days in the desert. A man has to have nightly dose of cold beer you know!

Sleeping on a cliff overlooking something like this is just flat out cool. Not a sole in sight or even a noise. This spot is 6 hours North of Hite Marina up the off-road trails. Hite Marina is 140 away from Moab. If you end up with a breakdown out here you are in major trouble. No cell service…nothing. As the crow flies Moab is about 50 miles away but you can’t get there from here because the Grand Canyon is in between. Walking out of a place like this might just be impossible. This night we saw the International Space Station flyover. That was cool. Watching satellites fly over is the normal nightly entertainment out there. We didn't see a sole for a few days out here

The geneses of this tread started with tires size and back country adventure stuff. The ’01 Dodge Ram that came along on this trip was stock outside of front coil spacers and 295 tires. It did outstanding and only had to winch him up one slick rock hill earlier in the week on the Hole in the Rock Mormon trail. He probably would have been fine if had even a rear limited slip. Dodge diesels are heavy to winch uphill!

For the first two years we drug this trailer all over Arizona and Utah. My buddy and I put a lot of time and energy into building this trailer but what a pain in the ass it was dragging it along! Trailers are extremely overrated. We ran into a few occasions where the trailer had to be dropped and winched as the trails were too rough or too tight. It was nice having the extra space to bring more crap along through. The top of the trailer was also a nice perch to sit and drink at night without snakes and other creepy crawlers sneaking up your leg, although certainly no safe haven from bats. We wised up and took the position that if we can’t fit all of our crap in the trucks we don’t need it then sold the trailer. The trailer lives in Salt Lake City now and follows an Avalanche around these days.

Couple cool videos of that area. This is why taking a trailer is a flat out hassle
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLA966B54CA0B63794&feature=player_detailpage&v=rEiQhOoXUK0[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rEiQhOoXUK0&list=PLA966B54CA0B63794

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2MTHed-WT0&list=PLA966B54CA0B63794&index=15

Here is one from summer 2011. This is my idea of back country adventure. Away from civilization where the trails are not crazy enough to need a rock crawler rig but yet difficult enough to keep most idiots in rental jeeps and Subaru's away. This is another spot that is about 5 hours to nearest highway then another few hours to the nearest town.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMwIeDaWpJY&list=PL58161C0471F25102&index=4

Another SPOT summary from this year attending the Overland Expo then hitting some of the AZ strip (Toroweep Overlook). Toroweep is 60 some miles of dirt road leading straight to the Grand Canyon. There were a few other campers there this day as the entire Southwest was crawling with people from all over the world that attended the Overland Expo.

How do you post Youtubes here?

 

[magik235]

Here is an interesting link and a couple of pictures from it.

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/26568424/page/1.cfm

 

[warrpath4x4]

i use a 91 suburban and am still slowly building it, if i had my choice it would be a crew cab pickup with a short box aluminum utility bed on it and a RTT.

and i "dont know" that i got a yeti cooler for christmas

 

[COCHEV]

Larry, that is some beautiful but harsh desolate unforgiving territory out there. Ive camped out of Hite. Love Lake Powell. Also used to ride dirt bikes out by goblin valley. Great pics, man!