What's new
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.

paint question

ryoken said:
ok, looks like you wanna argue about this..

First off, never said you said, no sanding.. I said, "heck, it's not even sandable from what I read", refering to what it says on their website... Which means sanding the primer itself, not the substrate..

Second, anyone leaving any kind of surface rust on exterior panels to be painted is stupid... there's never an excuse to leave surface rust on a panel.. frame rail or undercarriage? sure.. Converting it on a hood is being lazy.. not to mention hack...

but anyway, you'll never convince me this product is better for bare steel than a quick metal condition, some zinc and epoxy primer... I'm certain that'd do a better job of rust prevention than any other method... I've looked at jobs I did over 20 yrs ago with that method and they still look good..

I'm really sick of all this hooplah for "miracles in a can".. I blame POR15... Most of these products work pretty well for their intended use, but in no way are they the best way to refinish... Great for lazy people... But wtf do I know, I've only painted 2000 cars....

If the person had asked about painting a frame or the like I would not be giving you an ounce of grief, but when I see this kinda stuff being pushed as a good bodywork primer it bugs me...
Click to expand...

OK!! please see post #17 I think you giving me grief past this is what I'm not getting, people are painting their rigs with bedliners now days!! are you gonna tell them its wrong?? zero rust was a product recomended to me by an old timer who has just as much experience as you do with this subject and he felt it would work good for my application, I would honestly consider it a "miracle in a can" but then again I've actualy used it!!! once more again I'm open to try new products if not for any other reason than to validate claims of said product!!! flat head 8's and leaded gasoline were great in there day, but we have since moved on to better things!!! I will say that zero rust is a product marketed as a commercial, industrial application. To me commercial, industrial is a good thing for what I do!! What I do is wheel in moderate to hardcore trails "outdoors", where metal flake, air brushed, clearcoated super snazy paint jobers just aint my thing!!!!!:haha:
PS. chrome aint either
 
fine, it worked for you... The point I was making is it is not the ideal material for a standard, good paint job...

As far as trying new products, I try everything.. I'd bet the farm I was using POR15 before anyone on this forum in the marine biz... First tried that in the early 90's... But I certainly wont use it as a bodywork primer.. Heck, I've been promoting zinc chromate and self-etching primers since it came out in the 70's..

I can see by your comments that this is gonna get dragged into a "trail rig vs show rig" thing.... The original poster posted a pic of a quality paint job, not a rattlecan camo (not that they aren't cool), therefore recommendations should be geared to that... If he was looking for an "industrial" finish, different story... Herculine that sucka if ya want, I got no prob with it and it has it's place, but thats not what he asked...

Everytime proper paint procedure comes up, people get all, but mines a trail rig, herculiner, blah, blah, blah.... Don't change the subject, thats not what was asked...
 
im just going for a decent looking paint job not some flashy show car lookin one, dont want to spend a arm and a leg getting it painted, i used the picture for a color refference
 
well, you better plan your budget on basecoat/clearcoat for that metallic... And primer really has nothing to do with "show", just durabilty..

heck, spraycan it for all I care... If it's not a redneck, rattlecan job this place has no respect for it anyway....

This'll be the last advice I dole out on bodywork in this place.. Sooo sick of being labeled as bling or something cuz I actually know about bodywork... F*ck this BS..... :mad:
 
You talk about sillybilly! He spray painted the rear seat.:haha: BTW it is a 1979. I saw this on eBay and was like nice color then saw the seat!
6a_12.JPG
c8_12.JPG

0f_12.JPG
 
Metrodps said:
You talk about sillybilly! He spray painted the rear seat.:haha: BTW it is a 1979. I saw this on eBay and was like nice color then saw the seat!
6a_12.JPG
c8_12.JPG

0f_12.JPG
Click to expand...
that's sweet!!
I thought the 79's were half cabs not full convertable?? I haven't read the E-bay article but if so I want a full convertible!!
 
ryoken said:
well, you better plan your budget on basecoat/clearcoat for that metallic... And primer really has nothing to do with "show", just durabilty..

heck, spraycan it for all I care... If it's not a redneck, rattlecan job this place has no respect for it anyway....

This'll be the last advice I dole out on bodywork in this place.. Sooo sick of being labeled as bling or something cuz I actually know about bodywork... F*ck this BS..... :mad:
Click to expand...

Ryoken I got your back, you know your $h!t when it comes to painting. I dont know why people ask for help then tell you that there way is better,why ask in the first place. if your going to rattle can then rattle can it dont bother asking your going to rattle can it anyways.
 
NoReGrEtS said:
Ryoken I got your back, you know your $h!t when it comes to painting. I dont know why people ask for help then tell you that there way is better,why ask in the first place. if your going to rattle can then rattle can it dont bother asking your going to rattle can it anyways.
Click to expand...
did i go abouts this way? if i did im sorry just wanted to throw some options and suggestions out before i waste time :doah:

and i just noticed there is a section for this type of question :noob:
 
Thanks man... :D

I'm just getting tired of the same bs on this subject all the time.. I don't care if someone wants cheap, quick, or a 50/50 job, I just want people to know the proper procedures and be able to guage how far off that they are..

Mainly because I'm all about the durabilty... I love when things last a long time and are done right... Seen way too many people come in the bodyshop with vehicles they bought a year ago with fresh paint and now look like cr*p..
 
1BadK-30 said:
did i go abouts this way? if i did im sorry just wanted to throw some options and suggestions out before i waste time :doah:

and i just noticed there is a section for this type of question :noob:
Click to expand...

Don't sweat it.... My fault again for being anal about proper bodywork... It's not new to this place...

pm me again when you get your stuff and are ready to start, I'll be glad to help you thru it...
 
ryoken said:
Thanks man... :D

I'm just getting tired of the same bs on this subject all the time.. I don't care if someone wants cheap, quick, or a 50/50 job, I just want people to know the proper procedures and be able to guage how far off that they are..

Mainly because I'm all about the durabilty... I love when things last a long time and are done right... Seen way too many people come in the bodyshop with vehicles they bought a year ago with fresh paint and now look like cr*p..
Click to expand...

Well I'm gonna stir the piss pot one more time!! I have a 98 jeep wrangler with what once was a perfect pristine paint job "emerald green with factory clearcoat" I was on a moderate trail with an off camber section, my sidewall had been slightly punctured letting air slowly escape. by the time I hit this offcamber section my rear bead blew out dumping me gently on my side. in the prosses of getting it righted and out to level ground the rear quarter panel, front fender, top of door and windsheild frame were ground down mostlly to the metal. I took it to a couple of body shops and got a best qoute of $900:eek1: why so much?? I was told because of a custom color match and clearcoat!!!! so now I'm jaded on the whole having a nice paint job for a rig that gets out on the trails. I now roll a chevy army truck with flat durable paint that can easily be touched up and fixed should I need to!!!!
 
You don't have to shout....

And if you took out a whole side of a vehicle, needing it refinished, I'm not surprised at $900... Other people have to live too man... Don't wanna pay? Learn to do it yourself.. Bodywork is time comsuming, what'd you expect $200?

Like I said, before, your dragging this way off topic into a trail rig vs show rig type debate... That's got nothing to do with proper bodywork procedure... You can roll housepaint on your rig for all I care...

Oh, and btw, a paint formula should have been readily available for your green, if it had factory clear... Heck, 90% of factory paint jobs for 20 yrs have been cleared... Some colors have many variations depending on the plant it was built in, but thats available in the VIN code...
 
85-m1028 said:
Well I'm gonna stir the piss pot one more time!! I have a 98 jeep wrangler with what once was a perfect pristine paint job "emerald green with factory clearcoat" I was on a moderate trail with an off camber section, my sidewall had been slightly punctured letting air slowly escape. by the time I hit this offcamber section my rear bead blew out dumping me gently on my side. in the prosses of getting it righted and out to level ground the rear quarter panel, front fender, top of door and windsheild frame were ground down mostlly to the metal. I took it to a couple of body shops and got a best qoute of $900:eek1: why so much?? I was told because of a custom color match and clearcoat!!!! so now I'm jaded on the whole having a nice paint job for a rig that gets out on the trails. I now roll a chevy army truck with flat durable paint that can easily be touched up and fixed should I need to!!!!
Click to expand...

honestly its that price because it should be, you cant just panel paint most new paint jobs, they have to be blended, otherwise it will look like you painted just the door, or just the fender, even though paint systems such as the one i have access to are computer based they still cant get it that close sometimes..

then you have the prep, dent removal, warped panels, edges to rework, maybe a door to shrink..


its not nice or plesent to dig into your pocket, but you get what you pau for.
 
I'm not arguing the price, I think its fair, why?? because I did fix it myself and I must say clearcoat is a pain in the arse!! I'm just saying I would rather not shell out tons of $$ or have to spend 3 days fixing a paint job every time I ding the paint job.. this is off topic, and is a show vs trail debate I agree!! my point is that spending buku$$ on 1 ton drivetrain, lockers, gearing, safety gear, bead locks, and big tires followed up with a $4000 paint job thats gonna get hammered out on the trail seems to me like a contradiction or waste of money. Offroad vehicles ought to be held to a different standard, that standard being more industrial. The most mild of off road terrain still can do damage to nice paint, that's all. I will still wheel the jeep I just wont get:mad: when I ding it up thats part of the fun!!
 
Congrats on dragging this completely off topic... And continuing to yell... Might try whats called a paragraph here or there too, easier on the eyes..

Noone has said trail rigs shouldn't be rattlecanned or Herculined... Does that mean someone can't put a nice paint job on a DD? Try thinking outside of your little box occasionally...

This is the roll and tip thread all over... BTW, base/clear is one of the simplest of paints to work with, other than lacquer, and has been a godsend to the collision industry...
 
ryoken said:
Congrats on dragging this completely off topic... And continuing to yell... Might try whats called a paragraph here or there too, easier on the eyes..

Noone has said trail rigs shouldn't be rattlecanned or Herculined... Does that mean someone can't put a nice paint job on a DD? Try thinking outside of your little box occasionally...

This is the roll and tip thread all over... BTW, base/clear is one of the simplest of paints to work with, other than lacquer, and has been a godsend to the collision industry...
Click to expand...

Ok quick question? If I strip my old paint off down to the bare metal. Proceed to shoot 3 coats of Zero Rust over the newly exposed metal. "not rattle can but from a professional spray gun"

What do recomend to follow up for a color coat? I am not an expert on this subject and would like to know if you think a quality paint job could be acheived? This would be for a DD/trail rig.

I had a hard time with getting the clear coat to blend, but I can see how with practice and time this could be an easy process!! I'm not trying to be in a box, I just would like know your opinion on a paint job that could be easily touched up with 1 or 2 steps.
 
I feel like I'm being setup here.... But I'll bite.....

Well, from what I read on the Zero Rust site, you topcoat it in a semi wet on wet fashion... You topcoat within 24 hrs, allowing the primer to flash off, much like a sealer... And catalyzed urethanes can be a prob if they have acetone in them...

The obvious choice for a topcoat would be a single stage urethane, that has no acetone in it... Anything from Dupont Imron to Glasurit 21 line, but any single stage from the major manufacturers, PPG, Ditzler, Dupont, etc would be fine...

Personally I'm not crazy about a primer thats gonna be 3 coats over bare steel, then expect to just lay paint over it... You generally like to see primer sanded at some point... maybe 2 coats, sand, then a final coat... or maybe 3 coats, sand, topcoat.. You generally will get better adhesion with sanded primers as opposed to wet on wet applications with flash times, etc.. But I haven't used it so I don't know how it sands...

The only issue I would have with how good a paint job would come out would be how smooth, free of orangepeel and dust you could get 3 coats of that stuff to lay out prior to laying out color.. Your paintjob is only as good as the substrate... I like my primer perfect prior to paint or sealer... every square inch sanded properly... Why make the paintjob more difficult, ya know?

Touch up would be the same as any other single stage paint.. Blending paint is an entire subject unto itself... Many different methods and techniques to blending different paints, colors, etc... I do have a few tricks from the collision days for different blending needs... From blending solvents to compound tricks, masking, etc...

Color matching is something of an art... In most cases if it's a non metallic and you are spraying from the same batch you can do ok, and actually panel paint if you spray with the same techniques, reductions, etc... But any reputable shop will color blend and clear them out to ensure good color match. Most people don't realize every single stage black is different depending on the manufacturer, some are more brown than others...

Metallics should always be color blended and cleared out.. And all metallics should be done base/clear... I have gotten away with panel painting metallics on occasion, but I definitely don't recommend it... You really need an eye for how the metallics where sprayed..

Color tinting is where the art comes in... All paints are derived from a weight formula.. As I said earlier, most colors will have at least a few variances, based on manufacturing plant, etc.... I've seen upwards of 13 variations on a single color.. Mid 80's Chrysler Ice blue had 13 iirc correctly (horrible color). Even then most of the time you'll tint on your own.. Always tinting the value before you mess with the hue, based on what tints are in the formula..

One other quick note..... Being that primer may have tendencies to have probs with solvent flash-off and saturation causing lifting, cringing, etc, I'd be much more inclined to let it sit for at least 10 to 12 hrs, if not closer to the 24 hr point, to let as much solvent flash out as possible and cure more thoroughly.. As opposed to many sealers that you really go wet on wet with minimal flash time between sealer and topcoat, typically 1/2 hr to hr...
 
Last edited:
I say three coats because zerorust specifies a build up layer 3-4mil to be 50% more effective and noted that black or red oxide should be 4-6mils :eek1:. I guess it just depends on how thich you lay out each coat.

This is a very tough paint so yes sanding it would be ??? I have never sanded this stuff personaly as it does go on pretty smooth. I will run a test a patch and see how sandable it is.

The Dupont Imron is a good paint, Petersons 4wheel did the ultimate aventure chevy with that in a very bright yellow. I will say that this paint falls out of suolution super fast!! This makes it tough to get the color right. Do the other products Glasurit, Ditzer, PPG have this problem??

I would say that metalics or anything with a clear, probably not a good idea with this primer. ???

Thank you your time!!:D :bow:
 
The main reason to stay away from metallics would be cost, not so much the primer....

I would say, if you can get the 3 coats to lay out decent, by all means, topcoat away... But i bet you could sand that stuff as any other primer if need be.. Lay out 3 decent coats and if it got a bunch of cr*p in it, you could let it dry thoroughly, DA it with some 220, put a fresh coat over it and topcoat...

Your kinda losing me with
I will say that this paint falls out of suolution super fast!! This makes it tough to get the color right. Do the other products Glasurit, Ditzer, PPG have this problem??
Click to expand...

Do you mean it fades/oxidizes? :confused: If so, thats not really the case, it's one of the better paints around for oxidation... Imron is a funny product.. It's THE original automotive urethane, been around 25 yrs... It's all we put on the mixers, dozers, etc at the resto shop back in the day... I musta sprayed 1000 gallons of that stuff.. Holds up awesome... Little tough to buff, but doable...

It's also what Hateras Yachts used for over 20 yrs on their boats.. thus I still spray it fairly often in the marina... funny how a product that old can still be very viable today.. :bow:

But sure, any single stage urethane from the other companies would be fine too... IMHO, THE best urethane you can use these days, hands down, is Glasurit.. If it's good enough for Mercedes and BMW, it's good enough for me... Heck, the single stage urethane makes the best engine paint I've ever seen, let alone the outside of the car..... :wink1:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest Posts

Top Bottom