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Pinion Angle Shims Question

pierce88K5

pierce88K5

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Is it bad to stack pinion angle shims? I have a 4 inch lift block under my leaf springs with a 4 degree pinion shim and my drive shaft vibrates horribly. Did the measurements and found I needed 4 degrees more of a shim. Purchased another set of 4 degree shims and it looks like they won't stack together well.:dunno:
 
Chris,
I have a 4 degree shim already installed and the angle is still visibly off. Used an inclinometer on the shaft and the differential and it says they are still about 4 degrees off.
Wes
 
I'd cut those spring perches off, flapper wheel the area smooth and re-weld some new DIY4X spring perches on.

After the old perches have been removed and the area cleaned up and smooth set the new spring perches on the axle and bolt it up to your leaf springs with your U-Bolts and spring plates. Adjust the axle to find the correct pinion angle, tack perches into place and burn 'em on.

No more issues :thumb:
 
Handloader90 - I am thinking of doing the Shackle Flip modification first, then checking the angles again which would hopefully keep me from having to cut the perches off since I am not too comfortable with my skills as a welder. I hate having lift blocks on the rear but they were on there when I bought it. Looks like now is going to be the time to do things right.:grind::waytogo:
 
Have you dropped your t-case to see if that helps? Short term solution but may help.

I don't think you can stack shims.
 
Jeff,
I haven't dropped it, but looked at it and did not know how big a hassle it is. I already have the rear differential out and was just looking at fixes involving it right now. I may look at dropping the transfer case later.
Wes
 
Hmmm. You have the rear diff out right now? Are you checking your angles with the truck on jackstands? If so, that may be why you're coming up with a big number. It needs to be done on the ground at ride height.

If checked at ride height, then try the shackle flip. It will rotate the pinion up, but you will lose the blocks (probably tapered) so will have to measure and adjust all over again. As mentioned, re-welding the perches is the ultimate fix. But one word of advice- get the suspension how you want it before you do it. In other words go ahead and replace the springs or do the shackle flip etc etc. Sounds like common sense, but I've seen that mistake made over and over.
 
+1 on the shackle flip! I have ORD's 4" with the HD Shackles, poly bushings, greasable boltsand all that junk.

Removing the rivets from the old shackle hangers is a motherf**er! I didn't have a compressor when I did mine to run an air hammer/ chisel. I use a 4.5" angle grinder, punches, BFH and titanium drill bits (most of the smaller ones got broken during this process).

Well worth it in the end! I ran the shackle flip without installing my front lift springs for about 2 weeks... my headlights pointed directly into the ground!
 
Rebelgregory - I measured while on the ground. The 1o bolt that was in it before had 4 degree shims installed already. When I swapped in the 14 bolt, I just assumed everything would fit and found out later that the 14 bolt was about 2 or 3 inches longer on the pinion than the 10 bolt which caused the extra 4 degrees of angle from my driveshaft being too long(?). The shackle flip looks like the way to go now for me.

Handloader90 - I have an air compressor and a hammer chisel but I heard it is still a huge pain to get those rivets out. Not looking forward to tackling that job.

Wes
 
Yes, 14b pinion is a little longer. I had a CV driveshaft on my 10 bolt. Wouldn't work with my 14 bolt. The shackle flip will also hurt this (ever so slightly). Since it's pushing the back spring eyelet downward, it moves the tire slightly forward in the wheel well. This isn't really a good thing if your driveshaft is already too long.

Personally, I used some WFO spring plates and perches when I swapped in my 14b and moved the axle back 1". This allowed me to set the pinion angle when I welded in the perches, re-centered the tire in the wheel well and allowed me to use my CV driveshaft. This may be an option for you, but you may need to do some measuring to ensure it will fix your situation. Whatever you do, don't let your driveshaft bottom out in the transfer case.

I forget the exact axle tube diameter, but here's a link: http://www.wfoconcepts.com/cr/U-Bolt-Kits/3208/3612

...and a pic of my rig at the same point you're at. I was setting the pinion angle. If you look at the perches and plates, by putting the spring centering pin in the forward-most hole, you're relocating the axle 1" to the rear.

2013-01-15 20.38.29.jpg

2013-01-19 17.52.41.jpg
 
If you have a good air chisel and your compressor is putting out the right cfm for it it should shear the heads right off the rivets. Then get a punch bit (or whatever the heck you wanna call it) for you air hammer and it should punch the rest of the rivet right through the frame. If you have a cheaper air chisel or don't have the proper cfm you can score the heads of the rivets with an angle grinder of dremel or something of that nature and it will assist you in removing the heads... or you can be like me and use titanium or cobalt drill bits and drill a hole in the center of each rivet after the head has been removed to make it easier to punch out with a hammer and punch. It's real easy if you have the proper tools which it seems like you do.
 
I still vote for new spring perches, while your at it grab some of those nice boxed spring plates from DIY4X too. I love mine!

If you do have to have another driveshaft made or your current one retubed you may as well pick up some 56" springs from the junkyard for $25 and push you axle even further rearward than using the difference holes on the new spring perches would. All you have to do to fit 56" springs is flip the shackle flip brackets to the opposite or "wrong side" and there you go!
 
I don't know if the original question ever got answered. Some pinion shims are designed to be stacked. They will nest together. If yours are not do not stack them
 
If it was mine I would get a set of eight degree shims to get me by until I was ready to do the shackle flip/14 bolt change. Are the lift blocks in it now tapered? Some are so maybe they are in backwards? A 4 inch shackle flip will rotate the pinion up 8* from where it would be stock with no blocks so if you run a normal driveshaft you will be moving perches anyways. I'm not so sure about moving the axle back to center it in the wheel well after a shackle flip. As the wheel moves up it also moves back. I have a shackle flip, stock springs, 14ff and 35s on mine.

This is what it looks like in the stock pin location on the springs. It does sit forward in the wheel well.
IMAG0676_zps0b6f9165.jpg


This is what it looks like compressed up hard into the wheel well. Looks pretty centered now. If I moved it back to center it up so it looked right at ride height it would be very close to rubbing when compressed.
IMAG0672_zps6cabea17.jpg


Not saying that's how they all turn out but mine did.
 
flynhawaiian said:
Diy4x makes up to 10 degree shims out of steel that bolt to the spring pack.
Click to expand...


If you decide not to cut the perches and find you still need that much angle, that would be the way to go. The steel shims won't break and spit themselves out of the leaf pack like aluminum ones do sometimes.
 
Eric,
Stacking the shims doesn't look like a good idea to me so I am not going to go that route. I will probably either buy the right degree shims or shackle flip and new spring perches.
Wes
 
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