What's new
CK5
Register an account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members.

PLEASE BE CAREFULL WITH STRAPS I WANT EVERY PERSON ON THIS SITE TO READ!

Re: PLEASE BE CAREFULL WITH STRAPS

[ QUOTE ]
I am doing a outline on a "recovery safety write up". I just asked permission to dedicate it to David's memory by his family and friends on the MI Jeepers site.


[/ QUOTE ]
that is awesome /forums/images/graemlins/bow.gif /forums/images/graemlins/bow.gif /forums/images/graemlins/bow.gif /forums/images/graemlins/bow.gif
 
Re: PLEASE BE CAREFULL WITH STRAPS

Sorry to here about this. But one quick question. I use a clevis on the end of my winch cable instead of a hook. Is this not a good idea?
 
Re: PLEASE BE CAREFULL WITH STRAPS

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to here about this. But one quick question. I use a clevis on the end of my winch cable instead of a hook. Is this not a good idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do the same. There are several differences.
1. With a Winch cable your typically hooking to a fixed object like a Tree saver. The Tree saver should be rated more then the cable can handle. My tree saver is a 6 inche and should be rated something like 60,000. The cable on my winch is rated about 10k. The cable there for would fail first baring any unforseen things. If there is enough force to make the Clevis a projectile it would be into the fixed object more then likely and not back at the vehicle being recovered. If the cable is in good shape with no kinked spots then it will usualy fail at the drum of the winch when it changes direction.

2. If your rigging safely you are taking precautions already by putting something with some weight over the cable. That is something is to absorbe the recoil should something fail.

3. Its not a shock load.

4. Another reason to go to synthetic line.
 
Re: PLEASE BE CAREFULL WITH STRAPS

Grim,
I was talking with my father about this and we came up with some really good ideas for attaching snatch straps together.

First it isn't a sheeps bend, but a SHEET bend. Then we came up with a really great variant of this that uses the existing loop in a snatch strap to make it easier.
We took 6 pictures, 3 of each basically. I also made a movie how how to tie each. This is all using two dog leashes, I thought it would be a little easier to see two small snatch straps, one green one blue.

It's about 9MB of files right now. Tomorrow at work (high-speed, dial up here) I'll be able to trim down the pictures enormously, but I can't do anything with the 7MB movie. Will your e-mail address be able to handle this size of file?
I honestly feel this is far superior too the methods described so far. I pulled a Ferd ranger off some railroad tracks using a variant of these knots, and my 130lb bean-pole of a girlfriend was able to undo the knot. These are really essential-to-know knots.

Sorry for the long-winded post, but no one had responded to my last mention of this. I just feel the need to make my point, as these nots are VERY fast to tie, there is no way a clevis coould be faster, or easier. I think it will go along way to making this never happen agian if people know of this great alternative.
 
Re: PLEASE BE CAREFULL WITH STRAPS

Love to see it. There are several good knots to do this but the key is to make it simple. I think I know the knot you speak of and its easy to do with a little practice.

I think my Gmail will handle up too a 10 meg e-mail.

GrimsMail at Gmail dot com.
 
Re: PLEASE BE CAREFULL WITH STRAPS

IMO tying knots in any strap is the wrong answer.

Loop them together with the loops in the end or don't use them at all.

The only place you'll find a clevis on one fo my straps is where it attaches to the bumper.
 
Re: PLEASE BE CAREFULL WITH STRAPS

Well tim, there is a way to do it without damage to the strap.
The bowline and sheet bend. They are some of the most comonly used knots. A sheet bend is **THE** way to connect non-matching sized lines. So that means a 3" to a 6" strap is entirely possible. Both of these knots reduce the strength of the line very little. (All knots weaken a line, not perminently per say, but just because of the direction changes)
Using a stick or looping the lines together is retarded. Any stick you find on the trail will be pine, and looping them together now you will have a practically perminent knot.
You would have to be /forums/images/graemlins/screwy.gif not to learn from the elders in this instance!!!
 
Re: PLEASE BE CAREFULL WITH STRAPS

It is undoubtably unfortunate that this incident took a persons life. I have a rigging handbook at work I will lookup the proper method and post the answer tomorrow.
 
Re: PLEASE BE CAREFULL WITH STRAPS

I have seen that knots hawkeye is talking about and they are very simulare to looping the ends like you recomend. The gain is it can be done without having to pull 20-30 feet of strap back through itself. It is acceptable I think you will agree once you see the way they work. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
 
Re: PLEASE BE CAREFULL WITH STRAPS

[ QUOTE ]
Well tim, there is a way to do it without damage to the strap.
The bowline and sheet bend. They are some of the most comonly used knots. A sheet bend is **THE** way to connect non-matching sized lines. So that means a 3" to a 6" strap is entirely possible. Both of these knots reduce the strength of the line very little. (All knots weaken a line, not perminently per say, but just because of the direction changes)
Using a stick or looping the lines together is retarded. Any stick you find on the trail will be pine, and looping them together now you will have a practically perminent knot.
You would have to be /forums/images/graemlins/screwy.gif not to learn from the elders in this instance!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

A strap is not a, "line."

I do agree that it is a potentially acceptable way to attach the straps together, but it's simply not necessary.
 
Re: PLEASE BE CAREFULL WITH STRAPS I WANT EVERY PERSON ON THIS SITE TO READ

I didn't know the guy at all , just read about this. really, really sad
@least he died doing what he loved! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
Man, that really does bring a tear to my eye. God bless him and his family.
 
READ: Important info about tying knots into a tow line.

Its a long one but it's improtant.

My condolences to the family, and friends.

Not a hijack, just improtant thoughts about tow lines and knots.

Improperly stated above... ALL knots weaken the line that they are tied into. A line with a bowline tied into it will have 65% or LESS strength than the oringional line rating. A line with a sheet bend tied into it will have 49% or less strength than the oringional line rating. I say or less because our tow straps are filled with dirt and mud, imbeded into the fibers, which cause cutting of the individual fibers. Another contributing factor to lowering the strength of the line is twists in the line. If the line that you are tying is not flat, or is twisted, the strength can be reduced significantly.

Lets talk numbers- a 10,000 lb rated tow strap that has a sheet bend tied into it is now at best 4,900 lb rated, add a twisted knot, not flat, and the strength is MUCH lower-2,500 lbs?

" knots cause a sizeable reduction of strength of a rope due to sharp bends and consequent nonuniform stress on the individual rope fibers."
Mountain search and rescue techniques, W.G May- Rocky Mountain Rescue Group.
(efficency of the knots listed above taken from the same book.)

don't be fooled by the word rope, webbing is the same or worse. The determining facor is the radius of the bend in the rope (webbing) compared to its thickness, and the amount of wear on the line.

other factor to consider are slope and obstacles which increase the strain caused by a stuck vehicle.

Bill Burke has written a few great articles on tow strap safety, but I can't find the links now.

my $0.04

Wheelin is fun, enjoy but be safe and come back to play another day.
 
Re: READ: Important info about tying knots into a tow line.

You people need to simply realize that this was a freak accident, and leave it at that. Stop trying to analyze the recovery part of it, and just realize that due to a mistake a man made, he is now dead.

I feel bad for his family, but I don't feel that it is necessary that we go over this repeatedly.
 
Re: READ: Important info about tying knots into a tow line.

my condolences to the family and friends of this
man. especially for the little boy who lost his father.

i learned one thing in the army winching dead tanks
onto a trailer. not matter how strong you think something
is or how safe it might be, stuff breaks. so best advise
is always , i repeat always keep a safe distance and stay out of the path of anything that could break and come flying toward you.
 
Re: READ: Important info about tying knots into a tow line.

First you say it was a freak accicdent... then you say it was a mistake. So, which is it? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

It was a MISTAKE that cost him his LIFE. /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif

And it is important to bring this up. So it is less likely to happen again. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

Still, no pictures or anthing of proper and dirrerant options and ways to connect two straps.
/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[ QUOTE ]
You people need to simply realize that this was a freak accident, and leave it at that. Stop trying to analyze the recovery part of it, and just realize that due to a mistake a man made, he is now dead.

I feel bad for his family, but I don't feel that it is necessary that we go over this repeatedly.

[/ QUOTE ]
 
Re: READ: Important info about tying knots into a tow line.

It's both. You know how many people have probably done this and it's never come back to bite them? Just because someone didn't do the right thing doesn't mean they're trying to kill themself.
 
Re: READ: Important info about tying knots into a tow line.

No one said anything about anyone trying to kill themself. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

And you proved my point... MANY people hook straps like this together many times. It isnt safe.

Thats the piont. And when there are other ways of doing it that are safe... why is it such a bad thing to explain them?
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[ QUOTE ]
It's both. You know how many people have probably done this and it's never come back to bite them? Just because someone didn't do the right thing doesn't mean they're trying to kill themself.

[/ QUOTE ]
 
Re: READ: Important info about tying knots into a tow line.

[ QUOTE ]
no matter how strong you think something
is or how safe it might be, stuff breaks. so best advise
is always , i repeat always keep a safe distance and stay out of the path of anything that could break and come flying toward you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well put. If you are not there you will not get hurt

There are some unavoidable situations, like being in the driver seat. One of the safER ways to connect two lines together is to use the exsisting loops- slip one loop through the other, then feed the entire line through the loop that is inside the other loop- Then place a HEAVY blanket over the middle of the line so that it absorbs energy from broken lines. This loop will also weaken the line (percentage unknown to me) This method is not fail safe.

The risk will never be eliminated, the best you can do is mitigate the danger. Understanding breaking strength, wear, knot efficeincy, and load will help mitigate the danger.

STAY CLEAR of potential projectiles.
 
Re: READ: Important info about tying knots into a tow line.

[ QUOTE ]
Its a long one but it's improtant.

My condolences to the family, and friends.

Not a hijack, just improtant thoughts about tow lines and knots.

Improperly stated above... ALL knots weaken the line that they are tied into. A line with a bowline tied into it will have 65% or LESS strength than the oringional line rating. A line with a sheet bend tied into it will have 49% or less strength than the oringional line rating. I say or less because our tow straps are filled with dirt and mud, imbeded into the fibers, which cause cutting of the individual fibers. Another contributing factor to lowering the strength of the line is twists in the line. If the line that you are tying is not flat, or is twisted, the strength can be reduced significantly.

Lets talk numbers- a 10,000 lb rated tow strap that has a sheet bend tied into it is now at best 4,900 lb rated, add a twisted knot, not flat, and the strength is MUCH lower-2,500 lbs?

" knots cause a sizeable reduction of strength of a rope due to sharp bends and consequent nonuniform stress on the individual rope fibers."
Mountain search and rescue techniques, W.G May- Rocky Mountain Rescue Group.
(efficency of the knots listed above taken from the same book.)

don't be fooled by the word rope, webbing is the same or worse. The determining facor is the radius of the bend in the rope (webbing) compared to its thickness, and the amount of wear on the line.

other factor to consider are slope and obstacles which increase the strain caused by a stuck vehicle.

Bill Burke has written a few great articles on tow strap safety, but I can't find the links now.

my $0.04

Wheelin is fun, enjoy but be safe and come back to play another day.

[/ QUOTE ]

When did I ever say that a knot doesn't weaken a line? UHM... NEVER.
A loop sewn into the line would weaken it just as much if not more. Period.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest Posts

Top Bottom